 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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That's really interesting. I forget the details, but when Raichle went bust all those years ago, my vague recollection is that the Flexon production moulds went on the market. Not sure of the details, and whether they sort of 'went freelance'.
Anyone know?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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raichles ski boot division went to kniessl which have been in trouble for a while.............
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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They weren't in trouble in 1962. The Kneissl White Star. Most influential ski ever made?
It's interesting that the most powerful ski racing nation on earth has a bombed-out ski manufacturing industry.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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David Goldsmith, Isn't it? I guess they're all too busy concentrating on renting out their spare bedrooms to paying guests.
now, what does SZK think of the re-incarnation of the Flexon? I will admit I always fancied a pair (cos of the colours and fondleability <all those nice pseudo organic alien like ridges, yumm>) but when I tried them on felt the flex was too soft. Admittedly I never tried to ski in them.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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spyderjon, For us here it never went away. I still have a stock of Flexon, but the most part have bought the Krypton. All this K2 stuff was just a lot of chinese whispers too. We have been selling Krypton for 3 years despite the 500E price tag, without any problems. There are some slight mould differences and she's not as sensitive through the sole, however that is not what the Flexon/Krypton are famous for. The 3 part interface; coller, tougue, clog are still the same system, albiet the hinge point is now much lower on the Krypton to increase lateral transmission. This system can too be found on pretty much all touring boots!
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I thought Dalbello had taken over the design. I had a pair of flexon classics in the 90s. Best pair of boots I've ever owned. Just a bit too narrow.
Interesting to see the photo of the kryptons and flexons together in the epicski thread.
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Brilliant! That's ddefinitely a proper Flexon!
David Murdoch, They aren't very stiff, but the tighter you do them up the stiffer they are. What size are your feet? I've got a pair of size 7s (26) you can try if you like at the Mondial. If your feet are 25 then you could try one of my new pairs of shells with your own inners in .....
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| kiwi1 wrote: |
I thought Dalbello had taken over the design. I had a pair of flexon classics in the 90s. Best pair of boots I've ever owned. Just a bit too narrow.
Interesting to see the photo of the kryptons and flexons together in the epicski thread. |
Note my thread over at Epic, review of the 07 Krypton.
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easiski, thats a very kind suggestion. I'm typically a 25.5 so that might work v. well! I seem to recall hearing that the softness was compensated for by the "quality" of the flex...would be interesting to experience.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Toko now own Raichle, and although the Dalbello Krypton is close, they don't fit as many people as the old Flexon comp did all those years ago.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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whitethorn, Mammut own Toko.
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ediblepants, So who now owns Mammut?
David Murdoch, We'll talk about it on Friday night at the meal - I don't live far from the resto. The boots are 26.
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You know it makes sense.
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A couple of years back the old Flexon Pro (if you remember the pinky red one with dirty yellow cuff) reappeared under a new brand name - from memory it was something like Rexa and promoted by Marc Giradelli. (Flexon Pro followed on from the Comp and, I believe, used same moulds. Saw them tucked away on a side stand at ISPO Munich in Feb 05. It was the Raichle mould, I asked. Wish I could remember the company name. Can't seem to find it on the web. Anyone else know about this or have I dreamt it?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Bode Swiller, Marc Giradelli is associated with Roxa boots.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Bode Swiller, The ROXA boots are not flexons but are shootoffs from the later Raichle F1 pro and edge models
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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jtr, LARGEZOOKEEPER, you're right F1 Pro. Roxa is a daft name for a boot. I stand corrected.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
| Roxa is a daft name for a boot. |
Yes, Bode Swiller.
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David Goldsmith, yeah, but I'm not trying to sell ski boots into a fussy, brand conscious market. The boot itself looked just great, albeit a limited range of... er... one model, and then there was a cheesy-grinning Marc Giradelli on the poster wearing a lounge suit holding the boot. All seemed a bit off message to me. Most would rather be crippled by a cool brand than suffer the p*ss taking.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| ediblepants wrote: |
| whitethorn, Mammut own Toko. |
So Mammut, Toko and Raichle are now the one company, who owns who is irrelevant.
But it also appears the Raichle mould will be around in a few variations for some time to come, good for those with a narrow foot.
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whitethorn, Yes - but it's not just the narrow foot thing - it's also the progressive and unlimited (theoretically) flex. Who owns it is relevant, because the Flexon has failed to sell well in recent years, but also hasn't been marketed well. the shops have had a nightmare with the suppliers etc. Therefore, who is ultimately responsible is VERY important.
The Flexon Pro was a softer tongue than the Flexon Comp, the shell was the same. As only Pros have been available recently, I've got my 20 year old comp tongues on my new flexon shells! 
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As a boot fitter with over 30 years fitting experience behind me, i find the Raichle boots don't sell because they fit so few foot shapes, they are competitive on price, but they need a lot of work to get them onto the majority of people who insist on buying them.
The progressive forward aft flex is not all that important in a modern carve ski like it was in the days of straight skis, lateral stiffness is good though and that is why it remains a good boot for the very few that it fits.
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whitethorn, Another bootfitter!, welcome to the fray 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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LARGEZOOKEEPER, Thanks, but from what i have read so far you guys get totally different boots to us from quite a few suppliers, from what i am told we get our boots and skis 6 months before you do over there, we have just had the 2007 range here for the last 6 months and in 2 weeks time we will be placing orders for the 2008 season stock.
Do any of you know Matt Smith and Ian Thomas who worked in a shop in france for many seasons as boot fitters, Ian now works for Sidas ?
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whitethorn, Yes, I know them both well from their days with Precision in Val d'Isere. From most suppliers you'll get the same boots (maybe a few Japanese versions), it's just the seasonal factor that's different
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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whitethorn, Not sure about Ian working for Sidas, not in France anyway
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Matt was involved in a nasty car crash a few months back, but will be alright after a lot of rehab, i notice you still mention Nordica beasts, but they have been discontinued now.
We get a lot of boots from the USA market, why don't you use the Atomic "B' series of boots for wide feet with high instep ?
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whitethorn, I myself am not too involved in consumer bootfitting at the moment, so I can't really comment on the Ato "B" series. I work on the WC circuit so we only really play with plug's.
Give Matt all the best from Jules and I hope he recovers swiftly
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You know it makes sense.
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LARGEZOOKEEPER, Will do, i will be having lunch with him real soon, being new to this forum, who are the boot fitters who fit the general public on here, so i may ask for advice if needed and know it will be reliable.
Are you Sidas yourself or aligned with a particular boot company.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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whitethorn, CEM in Bicester, England and Smallzookeeper from Chamonix, France are the ones to look out for, both highly competent and well reputed. I worked for Salomon for the past two years and Lange/Rossignol for three years previous to that. Have now gone freelance and work for different companies and National Teams. At the moment have contracted out to the Canadian Mens WC team.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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whitethorn, where do work in Australia? someone sold me some flexons in Sydney in 1990...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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easiski, Before I start yapping I would just like to say that I spent nearly ten years in various flexons a while back and I fully appreciate your comments on aforesaid model, however the Flexon might well be the best boot ever made for you, that doesn't mean that it is the best boot full stop. People have widely different foot types and volumes, skiing needs etc and it would be a mistake to generalise. I am in total agreement on your views on flex, although it may seem quite soft to begin with, the Flexon has incredibly smooth, progressive flex becoming stiffer as the boot is pressured. This takes sometime to adjust to but after a while becomes very natural indeed. The Flexon rightly so was a very popular boot in racing (speed events and bumps) for this very reason, ie. it enabled users to absorb terrain changes and shock very effectively. Where it was not so strong was in the rearward department which was somewhat lacking in stiffness and reactivity. in the early nineties we used to systematically reinforce the rear spoiler to overcome this problem. If you see a Flexon modified like this, snap them up immediately, it completely changed the way the boot skied. Other major gripe was that buckles and cables broke with an alarming regularity, we used to change all buckles and cables at every race!!!! However I am glad that it is beginning to surface again and will follow news with interest. When I worked at footworks we were the biggest sellers of Flexon's(both Raichle and later Kneissl) in Europe (I believe) and we had no problem whatsoever with deliveries so maybe the guys in LDA were unlucky.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| LARGEZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| in the early nineties we used to systematically reinforce the rear spoiler to overcome this problem. If you see a Flexon modified like this, snap them up immediately, it completely changed the way the boot skied. |
Have you ever done this to crossover touring/hardshell ice boots like the MLT4?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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comprex, No, but on this kind of touring boot I don't think it would really change the skiability of the boot
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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LARGEZOOKEEPER, Yes - I do know all that, and was talking personally, as many will have realised. Sorry not to have been suitably precise. quite recently several expert people have been trying to persuade me that the Krypton is a suitable replacement, and that I should abandon my beloveds and change. Well - having been forced to change during the last few years I've now managed to source several pairs of shells (revolting yellow custard colour), and after 4 years of absolute agony, am now able to ski foot pain free (almost immediately). Now you deal with racers, who are prepared to put up with it - but us regular ski teachers really can't deal with maximum pain all day long! As you know, we're in our boots for 8 or more hours a day, pretty much every day for 5 months - fit is critical, and when your perfect boot is no longer made ..... 
Interesting that you didn't have a problem with stock, perhaps it was a volume thing?
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| easiski wrote: |
whitethorn, I don't actually agree about the flex. Having been on other boots recently after 20 odd years on Raichles, I was very frustrated by either coming to an abrupt flex halt when the two middle buckles collided, or having what seemed to be a hard brick wall in front of my shin!
I agree that they are narrow .....  |
If you carve your turns and not slide the tails around to make a turn on a modern carve ski with a relatively wide tail, i can't understand why you would be flexing your boots so much forward, that buckles collide with each other, that sort of flex will stall the ski at the tip and let the tail break away into a slide.
Think of your carve skis as requiring pressure on the tails as well as the tips, that is why the tails are wider these days.
As a ski instructor when straight skis were around, i know the importance of getting pressure onto the wider part of the ski at the tip through forward flex, but a lot has changed now with carve skis, that is why boots are now more upright in the cuff and softer flexing forward / aft, but remain stiff laterally.
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| whitethorn wrote: |
If you carve your turns and not slide the tails around to make a turn on a modern carve ski with a relatively wide tail, i can't understand why you would be flexing your boots so much forward, that buckles collide with each other,. |
The way I read her comment she doesn't wish for it either. Merely observing that she hasn't a choice between that and a solid brick wall.
To address your comment, however, consider the case of a smallish-footed person, oh, 23-24MP who wishes to absorb a large-ish landing or a big bump.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| comprex wrote: |
| whitethorn wrote: |
If you carve your turns and not slide the tails around to make a turn on a modern carve ski with a relatively wide tail, i can't understand why you would be flexing your boots so much forward, that buckles collide with each other,. |
The way I read her comment she doesn't wish for it either. Merely observing that she hasn't a choice between that and a solid brick wall.
To address your comment, however, consider the case of a smallish-footed person, oh, 23-24MP who wishes to absorb a large-ish landing or a big bump. |
If the bump is that large that the buckles collide with each other, and the skis are not flexible enough to absorb most of the shock, the bindings should have released, but that situation would be very rare indeed.
I certainly would not be buying boots with enough flex just in case that situation arose, but if bumps is where you ski most, then a Flexon is a wise choice if they fit.
A landing should be smoother than that, unless you are in spring snow or using the wrong wax, but the shock absorption in a binding can only go so far, and if your boots flexed that much on landing you would be on a setting higher than 3+ if they didn't release.
A smallish footed person with say a Mondo point 23-24, would obviously have a greater DIN setting on a binding by far than someone with a larger foot, and so may not release quite so easilyat the heel piece, but if the skiers technique is right then the flexed legs will take most of the shock.
Yes, for those very few people with feet narrow enough to use a Raichle boot they do offer great progressive flex, and with the straight skis it was a real benefit to all skiers, these days it is most suited to top end mogul competitors.
In my many years of fitting boots, i have found a lot of females have high arches, and Flexon boots are one of the lowest arch boots on the market, so it is rare to see a female wearing Flexons.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Sat 16-09-06 3:47; edited 1 time in total
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| whitethorn wrote: |
A smallish footed person with say a Mondo point 23-24, would obviously have a greater DIN setting on a binding by far than someone with a larger foot, and so may not release quite so easily, but if the skiers technique is right then the flexed legs will take most of the shock. |
Hopefully so, but in order to flex the legs, one must do one of:
- flex the boot
- lift the heels
- put the bottom back.
Of which flexing the boot is by far the least evil, no?
The small boot reference was related to the spacing of the middle two buckles, not so much to the binding setting.
EDIT: Of course, short-legged folks need to flex further forward, too.
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