 Poster: A snowHead
|
Prompted by a post in the Weather thread from @rob@rar, and given the fact that I've hung up my touring / off-piste gear until current conditions improve, but yet still seeing many ski tourers out and about, as presume they are on their holiday, when do you stop skiing off-piste?
| rob@rar wrote: |
| ...For me, skiing is skiing. There's joy to be found in all conditions. The only thing I draw a line at is skiing in heavy rain..... |
However, I do think the vast % of SH's are not solely ski-tourers and that if conditions are shite they will stick to the piste and not venture away from it.
In fact up the hill on the piste the last few days I've seen quite a few people who are obvious ski-tourers given their gear/clothing, as they are just one of the many tribes found on the mountain 
There's no way I would contemplate skiing what I saw when I was up at the Lautaret yesterday, for sure there were pockets of windblown powder but they are few and in between much greater areas of every conceivable type of snowpack that requires very careful/technical skiing and can very much be injury-inducing.
Xmas eve I witnessed an instructor, with two very good clients, drop off-piste to see what it was like, do two turns in total crud shouting back at his clients not to follow him.
My bad knee is a testament to skiing questionable snow-pack in the last ten or so days over three or four sorties, whereas I can ski hard and aggressively in my Atomic Hawk Ultra XTD 120's touring boots on my GS Race skis on decent corduroy on the piste without too much issue.
So is it an age thing, and or common sense, as I don't think it's a skills issue, though obviously very good and young skiers can and do rip anything.
That said I haven't seen anyone attempting to ski any off-piste whilst I've been up the hill, so maybe it's just classic Frenchie (though I've seen many Italians) ski-tourers who will ski-tour no matter what and are not too arsed about how bad the descent is, and just relish being in the mountains?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
@Weathercam, For me if I’m not enjoying the off piste snow or I can’t safely ski it without damaging something IMO (the posh phrase would be risk assessment I guess) I go back to the piste and generous coffee stops, which may mean I get to ski with different less adventurous mates but they are equally as interesting and entertaining.
I can’t stand those which “have to be off piste” and look down their noses in disdain at the suggestion.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
All things being equal (not this week for example, as I’m skiing with Jane who only skis on piste so that’s the determining factor), I’ll head to where ever I can have the most fun, find the most joy. I enjoy skiing on and off-piste, so skiing decent snow on piste is more enjoyable than skiing mediocre snow off-piste. Skiing nice, untracked snow off-piste is difficult to beat of course, but that is a commodity which can disappear far too quickly.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
@Weathercam, that's a good question. Otherthan @Rob's point about rain (bloody hell we had a hideous day last year in Courmayeur in the rain), the only other thing that really turns me off (and I don't think I'm alone) is breakable crust.
Just, no. Not at all.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
1. Is this fun?
2. Is this going to hurt me?
If both are no, time to head down (or not go).
Skiing in tough conditions is a great way to improve, provided you survive. But the instructor noted in the OP did the right thing. They knew the slope was in violation of the foregoing for their clients.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| Scooter in Seattle wrote: |
1. Is this fun?
2. Is this going to hurt me?
If both are no, time to head down (or not go).
Skiing in tough conditions is a great way to improve, provided you survive. But the instructor noted in the OP did the right thing. They knew the slope was in violation of the foregoing for their clients. |
+1
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Unless it’s raining there’s always something worth doing surely?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
If the weather is decent but the snow is crap, a tour with nice views and a decent pic nic spot might be as good an option as any
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
I have actually had a decent ski in the rain in Scotland , though I'd agree I generally would not choose it.
Outside it's currently pissing with rain on wet snow, I would not be tempted if I were on holiday.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I swore I'd never ski in the rain, but then we had kids, and you know what they say about "always" and "never". By doing so I learned a bit: if you have the right gear, you can have an ok time because the snow is soft and the slopes are empty. BTW the "right gear" does not include the Scotchguarded Levis 501s I learned in!
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
One run in heavy rain in Soll put me off that for life, it was miserable.
I've skied in drizzle in Germany which was OK as I was all gore-tex'ed up, only the kids suffered 
Most other things I would at least go and have a look at.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
Pretty much shred everything.
Draw the line at skitouring.
Skinning up a hill for 2hrs covered in sweat and odor, for a 5min ride down, is no fun.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
This thread really isn't about skiing in the rain or on the piste, but about what type of snow-pack do you draw the line at off-piste.
So it can be a cloudless sky and Infront of you is a bowl of pristine (so you think) untracked snow which you venture into and then possibly quickly retreat or have to resort to downhill kick-turns and long traverses.
I quite enjoy the challenge of skiing technical snow but there are limits but as has been mentioned it also adds to ones overall range of ski skill-sets, as the old adage, "no such thing as bad snow only bad skiers"......
But like I said, does impact the knees.
And obviously a snowboard can handle crap snow way better than skis, though when I used to snow board there were a few occasions when the guide rappelled us down as he thought that was the safer option whilst the skiers could handle the conditions.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Depends where I am, and whom I'm with.
Wales - will ski anything
On holiday with Nerys - very careful of where and when I take her off the pisted runs. It's a confidence game for her. When she has a coffee break or goes in to lunch early I may sneak in a couple of runs. I'll ski anything.
On my own trip / day off from teaching then I will maximise the lift system as much as possible with a few traverses/hikes/skins above the lifts.
If it's a dedicated ski touring trip then if the conditions are safe then I'll be out.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
I guess there's a difference in commitment depending on whether you're there for a week or a season. Had some great days op on the SOPi bash when @Weathercam, has posted negative comments about conditions. Type2 fun maybe but fun all the same.
Am I having fun or learning anything? No= Bug out.
Frozen crud=no
Heavy wet knee knackering snow=no
Breakable crust... depends on how bad it is but probably =no
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
@adithorp, yes good point, though back then it was indeed negativity of the "I can't be arsed" as opposed to shite I'm not going to ski that, but it is close.
Indeed not skiing piste today as it's slightly overcast
Currently if you were out here on a bash would be interesting to see if you would indeed ski off-piste?
In an hour or so I'm hooking up with Ben who compiled all the FatMap Serre Che Freeride routes and I'll ask if he's been up to anything, but I suspect he's just been rammed with group lessons.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| Weathercam wrote: |
Currently if you were out here on a bash would be interesting to see if you would indeed ski off-piste? |
clearly you have shitty conditions at the moment. In the Northern Alps there was fresh powder on Sunday then this week it has been chalky powder on north facing slopes, spring snow on south facing slopes. Good conditions overall even if the skiable snowline is a bit high - around 1400 meters.
I won't go out and ski bad conditions these days myself, probably for similar reasons to you.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Weathercam wrote: |
| This thread really isn't about skiing in the rain or on the piste, but about what type of snow-pack do you draw the line at off-piste. |
That's not the question I ask myself. For me it's about whether I'll have more fun skiing on piste or skiing off-piste. The off-piste snow might be not lovely fresh tracks but still perfectly skiable, nevertheless I might have more fun on-piste that day so I'll grab a pair of piste skis and focus on making the best turns I can on the groomed snow. For me, on-piste skiing is not always a second best to off-piste skiing. It's all just skiing, and there's joy to be found in just about all situations.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| Whitegold wrote: |
Pretty much shred everything.
Draw the line at skitouring.
Skinning up a hill for 2hrs covered in sweat and odor, for a 5min ride down, is no fun. |
It's all about the journey in the mountains for us. We love mountain hiking, so ski touring means we can do a great hike with the bonus of a quiet, remote ski down. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
@davidof, yep . Piste skiing is pretty marginal here esp back to thr villages, so I wouldn't even be thinking about off-piste. I've not put my skis on for the last day or two. I don't ski off-piste now but sons and hubby do but haven't even considered it. They're still having fun though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| rob@rar wrote: |
| .....That's not the question I ask myself. For me it's about whether I'll have more fun skiing on piste or skiing off-piste. .... |
Aaaaahh but that's not the thread title
Though like you say, and what I've been doing this week, is ski the piste instead as that's far more satisfying/enjoyable, or cranking up the Carv*; though if the Cross Country were open I'd have probably opted for that instead, though I've also been skiing with my daughter as OH is off games.
Plus you know things are bad, when I've also been out running, but there is the little matter of the Serre Che Trail run in a couple of weeks.
* not too good for my knee currently I suspect as going full Carve mode will be akin to skiing shite off-piste when hitting icy boiler plate.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Weathercam, 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
doesn't the question kinda depend on how long the trip to the mountains is?
...and if i'm honest the older i get the greater the accumulation of whacks, slaps and cracks colours the desire to take it off the groomers
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
How long is a piece of string.
Factors on whether I will ski off piste:
Snow conditions (breakable crust, rock hard icy, depth/coverage)
Current weather (visibility, temperature, precipitation)
Forecast (is it going to get better)
Previous recent skiing
How tired I am
How much more skiing I can get done/how much have I done recently
I am far more likely to have a day(/few hours) on piste if forecast says that I will get far better conditions in the next few days, or have just finished a couple of epic off piste days than if the bad conditions are still the best conditions I am likely to see on the trip.
Between getting older and instruction (getting better at skiing, so risking harder terrain) I tend now to try and do longer trips where I can take rest days without FOMO - basically trading days of travel for days of rest.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| rob@rar wrote: |
| Weathercam wrote: |
| This thread really isn't about skiing in the rain or on the piste, but about what type of snow-pack do you draw the line at off-piste. |
That's not the question I ask myself. For me it's about whether I'll have more fun skiing on piste or skiing off-piste. The off-piste snow might be not lovely fresh tracks but still perfectly skiable, nevertheless I might have more fun on-piste that day so I'll grab a pair of piste skis and focus on making the best turns I can on the groomed snow. For me, on-piste skiing is not always a second best to off-piste skiing. It's all just skiing, and there's joy to be found in just about all situations. |
Generally my answer is the same - choose which ever is more fun. For me that’s normally off piste but far from all the time. And of course the balance changes depending on who I’m skiing with.
I think weathercam’s question is influenced by him frequently feeling he has the “stay at home” option because he spends whole seasons in the mountains. When I’m in the mountains in winter I will almost certainly ski although it might be a short day if both on and off piste are of limited fun!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| Arno wrote: |
| If the weather is decent but the snow is crap, a tour with nice views and a decent pic nic spot might be as good an option as any |
Very true!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
