 Poster: A snowHead
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| Whitegold wrote: |
No.
If it looks set to slide, I just ski a bit faster. |
That doesn’t work for me. As a snowboarder I spend a lot of time sitting on my back bottom
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| abc wrote: |
I have the gear but I don’t take them everyday.
If I don’t have a partner, what’s the point of taking the gear?
No, I’m not hooking up with strangers I met on the lift to go off-piste (“side country” or not). If I don’t know his/her ability to use the gear, I’m not going with them, which precludes going out with strangers.
That said, beacons and shovels are only useful after you triggered an avalanche. So many people say they only go out when they feel the beacon is almost unnecessary, but taking the beacon and shovel nonetheless. In that case, one may wonder does it matter whether they’re taking a beacon or not? |
Mate I have this issue all the time - as in not having someone to ski off piste with that has the gear and knows how to use it.
Most of the friends I go with are the "good weather" powder type that dabble off piste.
Anyone else here experienced the issue of finding people to go off piste with? How do you guys solve it? On one hand guides are super expensive and I dont want to hire one on chill powder days where I can just ride with a buddy, and on the other hand the FB groups etc. I find are too broad and I dont want to find someone completely random.
Any experiences on this problem and how you solve it?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| hang11 wrote: |
| Whitegold wrote: |
No.
If it looks set to slide, I just ski a bit faster. |
That doesn’t work for me. As a snowboarder I spend a lot of time sitting on my back bottom |
Learn to skin up faster 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@iskipow, I solved the problem via internet dating - no kids; no smoking; must ski. Worked out just fine, apart from the fact she skis better than me. It does of course require the investment of time and other resources, but there are additional benefits.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@iskipow, I solved the problem via internet dating - no kids; no smoking; must ski. Worked out just fine, apart from the fact she skis better than me. It does of course require the investment of time and other resources, but there are additional benefits.
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@iskipow, when I started I had a ski buddy who was as keen to ski off piste as I was. Did hit a few difficulties when he started a family and missed a few trips but then met my wife who skied off piste. I can see it being a problem though. There is a SH's off piste bash that I would probably use and just generally make an effort to find trip buddies.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Fri 15-09-23 9:24; edited 1 time in total
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In kayaking, I ended up training my kayak partner.
In off piste skiing, I was the one who got trained by a more experienced skier who needed a partner.
Like others said, it’s an investment in time. But the results could be worth it. Sometimes, you may get other side benefits in addition too. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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If you ski off piste regularly you should have a beacon, why not always wear it? I will always take the opportunity to hop off the side of the piste so I always wear my beacon & pack.
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I am very aware of slide risk.
I have been on learn and then refresh avalanche awareness courses.
I was skiing last year in low vis at vercorin. Recent dump. No risk of a large slide in the trees, of course. Only… when I was in the trees a big pillow collapsed as I crossed it. No one near. Partner skiing a different line. If I’d gone with the collapse then I probably would have been half buried. But then..maybe I could have been completely buried.
No beacon. No shovel for either of us.
You f…..ing idiot I thought. And passed onto the piste a more thoughtful person.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Some years ago when airbags were new and heavy @Wendyjh and I were having lunch in the Hospizalm in St Christoph when in walked a group of friends wearing all the gear. It was a beautiful Spring day and it hadn’t snowed for some time. We got chatting and it turned out they were British surgeons. They just said “Wouldn’t you feel a bit of a tit if you got buried and your kit was sitting on your bed in your hotel room?”
I think at that time we were still skiing in hats having not even thought about getting helmets!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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It’s no different from walking down the street on a windy day and a flying object hit your head (or worse, your eyes). You wish you have been wearing a helmet!
But do you walk down the street wearing a helmet and safety goggle everyday?
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Sat 16-09-23 18:56; edited 1 time in total
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How about driving along roads with slide risk, like the Duffy Lake in BC? Presumably wearing a transceiver whilst doing that will reduce your risk. You will also want your airbag and helmet on, of course. Driving with a helmet at all times makes sense - there's a reason race drivers do that, and you'd have to be a complete idiot to carry a helmet in the car and not actually wear it. Especially when driving to Sainsbury; it's when you least expect it that accidents happen. Be prepared.
And you ought to be fully kitted up at Ski Rossendale. It does snow there, and people do die in slides in the UK.
Hemel too - feral AI could make those machines dump a ton of snow on you at any time there, or there could be a fire and they'd not be able to find you in the smoke... unless you had a transceiver on! Don't forget to group-check it at the start of the day, mind. It can hardly make you more at risk, after all.
My favourite resort air bag folk have the t-handles out and the crotch strap chopped off.
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You know it makes sense.
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My mother, a retired civil engineer, owned a pair of steel toe boots which she used when she visits construction sites (which is often full of exposed steels and nails, plus other hazards). The boot fits me too. But I saw no reason to wear it unless I’m going to a site of similarly hazardous.
But the day a random passer by dropped a heavy package on my toes, I wished I was wearing my mother’s steel toe boot!
Do I wear steel toe boots everyday now? Nope. Nor do I wear my avalanche beacon & shovel every time I go out skiing either.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I don't generally wear a life-jacket when out cruiser sailing in easy conditions. Or a helmet when driving a car, though clearly both would make me marginally safer.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Do you ski in a helmet? I do & I carry a pack for gloves, extra layer etc so why would I take 2 packs on holiday? It’s just a no-brainier to put my transceiver on every day.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| pam w wrote: |
| I don't generally wear a life-jacket when out cruiser sailing in easy conditions. Or a helmet when driving a car, though clearly both would make me marginally safer. |
Come to think of it, when I took a car ferry to Candida, with my kayak on top and all the kayaking gears, I didn’t think of taking the life jacket from the car and put it on. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Gordyjh wrote: |
| Do you ski in a helmet? I do & I carry a pack for gloves, extra layer etc so why would I take 2 packs on holiday? It’s just a no-brainier to put my transceiver on every day. |
I don’t usually carry a pack when skiing in resort.
But if I’m in the habit of carrying a pack everyday anyway, I can see leaving the transceiver and shovel in there.
Having said that, I assume you stop to take the beacon out of the pack and put it on your body when you decide to cut between 2 pistes? 
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A couple of years back I was at one of the club fields here in Nz, which are low key operations with minimal facilities - I usually wear a transceiver riding at those and most of the time I’m on a split board so carrying a pack anyway, so just keep tools in it.
As I got on the “lift” aka rope, the patroller/liftie/marketing manager/maintenance guy says to me there’s no need to wear a transceiver here, it never slides.
Literally 5 minutes later I was digging him out of a slide from above the top pulley of the rope 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I can understand "don't have it, not wearing it", but not "I've got it, but it's in the room". I ski with everything, always, and I urge you all to do so.
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| joffy69 wrote: |
| I can understand "don't have it, not wearing it", but not "I've got it, but it's in the room". I ski with everything, always, and I urge you all to do so. |
And I urge you to wear it on the bus to the resort too.
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For all the permanent transceiver wearers - if you did forget your transceiver, would it change what you ski that day?
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@snowdave, thank you, I had been contemplating the very same question but couldn't quite get the phrasing just right!!!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The time I felt most in need of a transceiver was driving across the only open pass into Arabba at the time of Snowmaggedon. Almost vertical snow walls 12' high. Sometimes you were allowed through, sometimes only in a convoy, sometimes the pass was closed. Nerve-wracking drive though statistically my 80mph journey on the Italian motorway across the Po Valley was probably more risky.
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@snowdave, very good question. I know someone who sold their ABS pack for that very reason
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@abc, I just put my transceiver on in the morning and take it off at night.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| snowdave wrote: |
| For all the permanent transceiver wearers - if you did forget your transceiver, would it change what you ski that day? |
I think it most certainly would and I hope that it would, although I might be tempted by something extremely gentle by the side of the piste.
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@richjp, I truly think it should not!
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You know it makes sense.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| @richjp, I truly think it should not! |
Agreed.
Quote from @davidof’s website on this topic “ avalanche beacons have probably killed more people than they have saved”. Would be useful to get his contribution here, given I think he knows more about it than most.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| snowdave wrote: |
| under a new name wrote: |
| @richjp, I truly think it should not! |
Agreed.
Quote from @davidof’s website on this topic “ avalanche beacons have probably killed more people than they have saved”. Would be useful to get his contribution here, given I think he knows more about it than most. |
I have the same view of Avibags. Great if you're skiing big lines with a film crew and helicopter but likely to compromise your decision making for mere humans.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| snowdave wrote: |
| For all the permanent transceiver wearers - if you did forget your transceiver, would it change what you ski that day? |
It's a great question.
These days we have seat belts, airbags, crumple zones and all sorts to make driving safer. Theoretically none of these should change the way you drive. After all if you have an crash it could still cause you injury or death. Plus it will cost you time, effort and money getting the car repaired via your insurance. But the reality is does give some people, some of the time, an excessive feeling of safety. And the trouble is we have cars that have far better acceleration, greater speeds and with far more road users.
It's a bit similar with skiing I feel.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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John Adams’s book Risk is great on this subject, for anyone who wants to explore the topic in more detail. It’s one of the main reasons I don’t wear a helmet when cycling, although I have when skiing for the last 10–15 years or so.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| snowdave wrote: |
| under a new name wrote: |
| @richjp, I truly think it should not! |
Agreed.
Quote from @davidof’s website on this topic “ avalanche beacons have probably killed more people than they have saved”. Would be useful to get his contribution here, given I think he knows more about it than most. |
I think that comes from Bruce Tremper originally.
You should certainly wear at least a beacon if you are skiing anywhere where it may avalanche, if only out of respect for the rescue services.
Other people have different protocols as has been discussed above, such as beacon when they go out the door.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
under a new name wrote:
@richjp, I truly think it should not!
Agreed.
Quote from @davidof’s website on this topic “ avalanche beacons have probably killed more people than they have saved”. Would be useful to get his contribution here, given I think he knows more about it than most.
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I think this line of thinking is completely wrong. Wearing a transceiver or not does not change my decision-making process in any way. If I am not wearing a transceiver, I will not enter avalanche terrain and there are therefore no decisions to be made. Simple as that. It is basic safety equipment to act as a potential life-saver once everything else has gone wrong. For the same reason, I wouldn't drive a car that didn't have seatbelts and I wouldn't get on a ship that didn't have lifeboats.
I don't wear a transceiver every time I go snowboarding as there are plenty of days where I have no intention of going off-piste. (Teaching days, park days, carving days, family days....). I do wear one if I have the slightest plan to leave the groomed runs.
It's just a red-line rule. No transceiver, no off piste. No helmet, no mountain bike ride. No bouyancy aid, no wakeboarding. These are pieces of equipment which are required because even with all other efforts to mitigate risk, the residual level of risk is still unacceptably high so basic equipment is required to, at least partially, mitigate the risk should the worst happen. This approach takes the kit out of the decision-making process.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| stevomcd wrote: |
I think this line of thinking is completely wrong. Wearing a transceiver or not does not change my decision-making process in any way. If I am not wearing a transceiver, I will not enter avalanche terrain and there are therefore no decisions to be made. |
ok so it does alter you decision making process, you will only ski avalanche terrain if you have a transceiver (same for me as well).
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@davidof, I take your point, but I feel it's somewhat obtuse.
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| davidof wrote: |
| stevomcd wrote: |
I think this line of thinking is completely wrong. Wearing a transceiver or not does not change my decision-making process in any way. If I am not wearing a transceiver, I will not enter avalanche terrain and there are therefore no decisions to be made. |
ok so it does alter you decision making process, you will only ski avalanche terrain if you have a transceiver (same for me as well). |
Or to put it another way the wearing of the beacon means he will ski in more dangerous terrain.
This is an absolutely clear cut example of risk compensation in action. Have a safety device, take more risks because you think it mitigates against them, but overall the chances of dying in an avalanche are still significant;y higher when wearing the beacon than when not.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@davidof, do you have the stats on the relative risks?
e.g. for every 1,000,000 "off piste" ski runs completed, [100] will experience an avalanche, of which [10] will be buried, of which [10]% with a transceiver will die, and [20]% without a transceiver. Assuming that's the right way to look at it.
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| snowdave wrote: |
@davidof, do you have the stats on the relative risks?
e.g. for every 1,000,000 "off piste" ski runs completed, [100] will experience an avalanche, of which [10] will be buried, of which [10]% with a transceiver will die, and [20]% without a transceiver. Assuming that's the right way to look at it. |
I posted a link above somewhere where I quoted a study on risk but I gave some of statistics of what is known. Ski touring / off piste skiing is relatively safe as a sport.
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FAQ
but friends who are guides? defo should be ABS'd up. risk = exposure x probability