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New EU law changes chalet host lifestyle forever

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Layne, quoting Mountain Heaven wrote:
...
•They will receive free accommodation and food, which cannot be deducted from pay (which has actually always been the law in France) ...
•The tradition of ski companies providing free lift passes, equipment hire and insurance may disappear as they do not have to be legally paid to staff

Since some chalet staff currently "live out", presumably TOs could also avoid the need to provide food and accommodation by employing local staff? From a customer perspective I am not bothered whether the meals etc are provided by x from Birmingham on a gap year, or y from Bourg who lives in France all year round. Makes a difference to the 'seasonnaire' model, but not necessarily to the 'catered chalet' model.
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rjs wrote:
ansta1 wrote:
Who is also to say that the unscrupulous TO's who currently by lift passes in bulk but don't pass those savings on to the holidaymaker (God forbid anyone would do that eh) won't do the same to the employee!

I thought that the system was that the employee took a copy of their employment contract to the lift pass office to get the discounted lift pass.


depends on the resort/company
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anstal & ris. I don't know where you get the idea that TO's 'buy in bulk' the LP's? It simply does not happen. Yet more hearsay and conjecture from people who have no idea.
They do get a commision on each LP sold to guests but importantly DO NOT sell at more than anyone going to the LP office would pay.
Seasonaires generally do not have to take their individual contracts to the LP office. The Resort manager would supply a list and everyone their PP so the LP operator can issue passes. They are paid for by the TO usually from HO and depending on numbers may get 1 or 2 special concessionary LP's for certain staff.
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So on reflection I am currently calling this a damp squid. Some small modifications seem to be required but I am not hearing any reason why "French enforcement to change the chalet host lifestyle forever". Unless someone knows different...

I am told the Swiss market collapsed after they initiated similar arrangements. But if it's along the same lines I can't understand why. Can anyone enlighten me? Was it done differently, is the Swiss market different?
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@Old Man Of Lech, I will certainly concede to someone with more insight to me. However indulge me a thought then, what if the TO decides instead of purchasing and issuing a season pass to each employee decides, that as they know there will a turnover of staff due to dropouts, injuries etc, decide to issue passes on either weekly or monthly basis going forward? This will be done at cost to the employee and therefore will further eat into their play fund at the end of every week/month. I am not saying this will or is likely to happen, but I am sure the bean counters would be looking at it. It's not beyond the wit of an excel spreadsheet or straightforward actuarial analysis to work out what is best for the TO based on previous seasons.
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ansta1:-
It makes far more sense to buy a season LP for each employee as the cost is substantially less than buying weekly or monthly ones. EG at some resorts a season pass is in the region of 7-900 euro, whereas a weekly pass can be 250-300 euro. No brainer there then. Plus most LP companies will allow at least 1 change per pass sometimes more if people do leave or get injured. Most TO now do in fact pay a bit more than in the past but then make a deduction for 'services'.
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@Old Man Of Lech, yes, but currently that cost is absorbed into the overall remuneration package. If going forward that cost is passed on to the employee (before or after tax would make a difference to the TO bottom line) would they care if the bottom line and cash flow predictions worked out?

They pay less up front for employee as they are paying monthly.

they can be potentially more flexible based on staff numbers related to bookings and staff turnover etc.

Certainly wouldn't work for the smaller or medium operators I would guess, but for the larger ones I could see how they could play it to their advantage.

Just musing, that's all.
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ansta1:-
Forgive me but I don't see it ever being in any TO interest to buy LP's on a weekly or even monthly basis. The costs would simply make it completely uneconomic. They mostly operate on a strict ratio of staff to guests and nowadays they even let staff have time off, (holidays), during the season if guest numbers are low. Didn't used to happen but it means they don't have to pay holiday pay at the end of a contract if taken.
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How did this get to 4 pages?

I know it’s off season and all ... but it is discussing a rather niche aspect of holidays...
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under a new name wrote:
but it is discussing a rather niche aspect of holidays...


Is it not about Future employment in the EU?
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Mike Pow wrote:


Just did a quick job search on google for Head Chef positions in my area - Llandeilo, Carmarthenshire, Wales

This came up

Head Chef
Emlyn Hotel - Newcastle Emlyn
£25,000 - £30,000 a year


I used to manage that hotel and the staff were very careful to ensure they weren't exploited.

The place had fallen on hard times and the bank appointed a receiver to trade the business until a new owner could be found. I was the naive young accountant who every couple of weeks made the long journey through the Carmarthenshire lanes to have my leg lifted while I discussed the dismal trading conditions with the on-site manager.

I have never encountered a business with such extraordinary levels of stock leakage. Either the staff were in a permanent state of absolute inebriation, or they were supplying half of Carmarthenshire with black market beer and spirits.

I suppose it's one way of compensating yourself for a low wage job in a depressed (but very, very beautiful) part of the country. Laughing
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under a new name wrote:
How did this get to 4 pages?

I know it’s off season and all ... but it is discussing a rather niche aspect of holidays...

You're not helping here Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Jonny Jones wrote:
Mike Pow wrote:


Just did a quick job search on google for Head Chef positions in my area - Llandeilo, Carmarthenshire, Wales

This came up

Head Chef
Emlyn Hotel - Newcastle Emlyn
£25,000 - £30,000 a year


I used to manage that hotel and the staff were very careful to ensure they weren't exploited.

The place had fallen on hard times and the bank appointed a receiver to trade the business until a new owner could be found. I was the naive young accountant who every couple of weeks made the long journey through the Carmarthenshire lanes to have my leg lifted while I discussed the dismal trading conditions with the on-site manager.

I have never encountered a business with such extraordinary levels of stock leakage. Either the staff were in a permanent state of absolute inebriation, or they were supplying half of Carmarthenshire with black market beer and spirits.

I suppose it's one way of compensating yourself for a low wage job in a depressed (but very, very beautiful) part of the country. Laughing


Laughing PML
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
It always seems strange to me when Brits complain about low-paid EU migrants 'taking our jobs', then go on a catered chalet holiday that they can only afford because low-paid young Brits are over there taking local's jobs.
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@LaForet, Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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LaForet wrote:
It always seems strange to me when Brits complain about low-paid EU migrants 'taking our jobs', then go on a catered chalet holiday that they can only afford because low-paid young Brits are over there taking local's jobs.

Whatever makes you think it's the same Brits in each group?

In my experience, the people who most enjoy a plentiful supply of cheap foreign barristas to keep them in skinny soy lattes are equally likely to prefer cut-price Brits to properly paid savoyards.
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@stanton, no... it’s about the future of chalet-holiday-staff. Which is a tiny, weeny, tiny element of the global tourism industry.

Probably not even big enough to be a niche.

And more or less limited to the UK and NL as clients.

What’s smaller than the smaller thing that’s smaller than the thing that’s tinier than a niche?
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under a new name:- Still worth a good slice of the Euro ski market
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@Old Man Of Lech, do you think? UK and NL Chalet holidays vs everyone else in any other accom?

I’d be (happily prepared to be) surprised...
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presumably this directive will also affect how ski schools work as well, unless they can circumnavigate it somehow, as they tend to offer 6day group lessons and instructors tend to work 6 days a week, it would not be practical to change the instructor for one day mid-way through the week to allow for them to have the second day off.


I would assume it would also to apply to all other holiday providers, I have been away several times to holiday villages in France during the summer when the on-site team (all nationalities) work six days a week, they will have to recruit more staff as well.

I presume this applies to all industries, must admit I have not read the initial link.
what about theatres, where performances are on 6 days a week, do they swap performers throughout the week or is there a dispensation for this?
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@terrygasson, as the French laws stand, presumably only under certain circumstances, but employees can waive specific rights. That said, changing instructor mid-week is not unusual.
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@terrygasson, I don't think that ESF instructors are employees, I think they are members of a cooperative.
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Most instructors aren't posted workers, they are employed locally or self employed. The hours will also fall below those that chalet workers do.

From my experience, I have earned more money working on a local contract in a resort than for a chalet company working fewer hours with more ski time, even once accommodation and lift passes have been taken in to account. There are, at least in the resorts I have experience with, plenty of jobs that include accommodation and food and pay more than the chalet companies, the difference in which would easily pay for a lift pass and new equipment over the course of the season.
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I have a feeling that even under French Laws these "x number of hours" or "y number of days per week" are over an average over a certain number of weeks so if they exceed them then their contract is extended after the season to bring the average into within the legal limits.
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@rjs, i think you are at least partially right. ESF is a syndicate (union/franchise).
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Quote:

From my experience, I have earned more money working on a local contract in a resort than for a chalet company working fewer hours with more ski time, even once accommodation and lift passes have been taken in to account. There are, at least in the resorts I have experience with, plenty of jobs that include accommodation and food and pay more than the chalet companies, the difference in which would easily pay for a lift pass and new equipment over the course of the season.

Yes, but you need a bit of initiative to get those jobs, @Sitter. wink
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