 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Aaaand this is why I'm avoiding travelling on a Saturday out to resort 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Love this Sunday-Sunday places. 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I skied with an instructor from Serre Chevalier a couple of weeks ago. He doesn't have chains. Said he's never needed them.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Weathercam, drive up the mountain to val thorens last night and completely agree with you. lost count of the numpties who ran out of traction before thinking about putting on chains. also saw a few uk 4x4s stranded who only had summer tires on but thought they could go anywhere.
combination of 4x4 and winter tyres was fine as were most hatchbacks with just winter tyres. god knows what it would have been like on a saturday
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In Canada we get a ton of snow and no one carries chains! Mandatory winter tyres on the passes. But for cars no chains.
Does anyone know why the difference? I wonder if roads generally newer, with less gradient or they just plow more?
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@motdoc, In general, it's a different sort of snow. In Canada's dry cold temperatures, the snow stays loose and powdery, while in warmer Europe, it's more likely to compress down into a wet icy slush, which then freezes and causes havoc.
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A Canadian friend once told me that on the odd occasion when Canada has warmer conditions, there's the same carnage on the roads.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I've got chains, but never needed them (yet!) for my 4x4 Duster, there's been times when I've wished for studded tyres on some roads though 
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My AWD as regular readers will know is counter advised for chains due to a weird transmission (well, that’s one excuse I’ve been told).
In 11 years of alpine life, most weekends in the mountains, I have never ever felt the lack of chains.
I have a little light that tells me whether the 4WD has activated, and it’s come on around twice.
I have noticed a variation in winter tyre quality (from high end brands).
I have seen many “locals” who patently don’t understand that snow tyres are not a panacea for snow driving and that revving in low gear while stationary will have the same effect for winters as summers. Actually, the same (briefly) for chains until the chains break.
It’s not a question of idiots with winter tyres and no chains, it’s just idiots.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Thu 28-12-17 16:36; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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^this
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| motdoc wrote: |
In Canada we get a ton of snow and no one carries chains! Mandatory winter tyres on the passes. But for cars no chains.
Does anyone know why the difference? I wonder if roads generally newer, with less gradient or they just plow more? |
I'm not sure why - I drive a lot here on legal hire car M&S tyres and it's not a problem. The law is clear. Sure, you see people with vehicles overturned etc, but I've seen that in the Alps too, and some people are bad drivers irrespective. I've never seen anyone use chains (trucks aside), and I don't know any locals with them. I can drive cat roads in my measly rental with M&S - perhaps our snow is just easier. Or perhaps we have fewer French people here? The roads tend to be less twisty too, unless you count some hill access roads. There's less traffic per square meter here.
NB: I think there are already threads here where people argue the merits of their own approach to car safety. I'm not challenging their deeply held views, I'm just speculating as to why we seem perfectly safe (safer, even) here.
Personally I'n anti-numpty, nothing more. I'd rather have an intelligent person driving in front of me than someone with a lot of toys.
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Had my snow socks on yesterday so we could take dogs and kids up to leckhampton hill, just outside Cheltenham. 5 inches of fresh snow and unplowed roads. No issues at all and approx 20 seconds to get each sock on.
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You know it makes sense.
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@philwig, I really think it must be the snow quality. Or, experience with it.
Below 1,000m in the Haute Savoie, f’r instance, truly tricky heavy snow is not a daily experience across the whole winter. Unlike many parts of Canada.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Whilst in this subject . . . We have hired a car from Turin airport to drive upto Pila mid January, we have booked snowchains. I wondered if it wise to buy a pair of snow socks over here to take with us just incase ( it's a windey -is that spelt right? Road upto Pila). As it's a hire car is there a standard sock that fits all? Hired a VW Polo or similar size.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Hils68 wrote: |
| is there a standard sock that fits all? |
Nope. You need to get the ones that fit - each size covers a range of tyre sizes though.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Thanks for reply, annoying that!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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In my opinion (which is based on driving on my own in a heavy front wheel drive van in the Alps in winter conditions), most of the time you do not need snow chains or snow tyres. When you need snow chains, you often need them regardless of whether you have snow tyres or not. It is only on uphill or steep downhill sections with compacted ice or snow on the road that it is required. (but by law some areas require it regardless)
Therefore, snow tyres are nice to have, but chains essential. I have not seen snow socks in use, but suspect that they also have limitations compared to good fitting chains.
Getting practice putting on snow chains is a good idea, as when you need to use them it is usually not a good time to get out the instruction manual. You learn by trial and error, and best to do that on flat non snow covered road when there is no other traffic trying to get somewhere in a hurry. (it will just cause you stress and panic)
I have seen two Spanish men in Andorra trying to put snow chains on when they were driving through 2 foot of snow. They seemed to not have a clue how to put them on, and drove off with the chains getting tangled on the axle of both wheels. A right fine mess they were in. I did not offer to help, as there was two of them and best to let them work out how to make that into an even bigger problem (like torn brake pipes) My interference might have caused a bigger disaster. It may have been that the chains were the wrong size, but more likely inexperience in their use.
Putting on the chains in -20C in high wind, in the dark, on a steep icy road when it is snowing, and your fingers won't work because they are so cold, is not a situation you want to find yourself in. I found myself in that position on the road to Tignes once, just before the covered road area above Tignes les Boisses before Tignes le lac. You will also find your back gets done in putting on chains in such conditions, due to having to bend over. Your clothes will get dirty and wet. Brrr!
I was thinking of putting my snow chains on at this point, then decided to go for a sauna and get a good night sleep and spend a few more days in Val d'Isere!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Weathercam, excuse the ignorance but what's the issue with that last pic you posted?
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| kitenski wrote: |
| @Weathercam, excuse the ignorance but what's the issue with that last pic you posted? |
Is the Volvo RWD maybe?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@kitenski, I was also wondering about that pic. Wait to hear!
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Black ice can be really treacherous but usually find it on the flatter roads down the valley so you can just drive slowly. I’ve never used chains. Good snow tires and 4*4 have always sufficed - non?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Volvo 4x4 XC90 I think circa £50k meant to be superb 4x4 yet snow chains are fitted to it even with a shedload of driving tech in the cockpit!
Just an example that also contradicts @under a new name, but in this case I suspect the numptie factor is at play.
In something like that should you need chains?
But maybe he had a black ice experience 😁
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Thu 28-12-17 20:28; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Weathercam, 4x4 with summer tyres will need chains as much as any other car does! Volvos are "All wheel drive" not true 4x4, with about 90% of the drive on the front most of the time unless they start to lose traction.
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| martinm wrote: |
| kitenski wrote: |
| @Weathercam, excuse the ignorance but what's the issue with that last pic you posted? |
Is the Volvo RWD maybe? |
It looks like a Volvo XC something and will probably have four wheel drive (some variants are/were front wheel drive). In any event, it doesn’t matter because the Volvo instructions are to fit chains to the front wheels for both variants.
(and IIRC, in the case of the four wheel drive versions, to never fit chains to the rear wheels)
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You know it makes sense.
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Had an XC90 once, drove it once in the snow here, terrible. 20 years ago Jeep Grand Cherokee with mud and snow tyres coped with a foot of fresh snow on the way to Val D with no bother at all. Now I simply wouldn't go anywhere without winter tyres. Have a rear wheel drive merc, fine in the snow here, have chains for alps, but not needed them yet. May get a chance to try on some fresh stuff tomorrow if the forecast is correct, or may be sensible and walk to dog to the pub instead!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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The most important technique in winter driving is to remember to call everyone else a numptie/muppet on a regular basis
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I carried chains for a few years now there’re in the loft now somewhere. I’ve a 4x4 Passat with snowtyres, I’ve had the same set up for 14 winters and never needed chains.
Going from cham to Argentiere today was a bit of a game. People stopped putting chains on etc. the thing that frightens me is seeing a sliding car coming downhill towards me.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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It took nearly an hour to dig the car out of three foot of snow this morning.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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My car is essentially the same as @jbob's under the skin (Skoda Scout) and my experience the same. I've never fitted chains though I carry them.
Dug out from under about 18 inches of snow this morning (Cleared roof, bonnet, windows and space to open driver's door. Didn't bother with the 18 inches of snow on the road behind). Got in, started engine, reversed out, drove away. Simples!
Have a look at the vehicles you see parked in the small farms near your ski lift of choice - mostly 4x4 estates with winter tyres and no snow chains.
I'd fit chains if in my judgement the road was fit to drive on and the Gendamerie wouldn't let me proceed without them. If I couldn't make progress without chains in any other circumstances I'd probably park up and try the next day.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Oh - and agree with @under a new name about the little flashing light - seen it a couple of times, once when provoked by a heavy right foot the first time I used the car in winter and wanted to see where the limit was and once when I still had the summer tyres on and was caught out by a bit of November snow in the U.K.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@jtr, @kitenski, I think and XC90 is a proper 4x4,not just AWD. Having said that they are really soft roaders. I wouldn’t much want to take one into seriously gnarly stuff. I also can’t see the problem with the pic. It looks like the driver has done exactly the right thing.
@kitenski, If the local drivers on winter tyres need a push to get going, then I can’t help feeling that they actually don’t have the traction that they ought to have. I dare say they are getting away with it, but it’s hardly good practice.
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| endoman wrote: |
| Had an XC90 once, drove it once in the snow here, terrible. 20 years ago Jeep Grand Cherokee with mud and snow tyres coped with a foot of fresh snow on the way to Val D with no bother at all. Now I simply wouldn't go anywhere without winter tyres. Have a rear wheel drive merc, fine in the snow here, have chains for alps, but not needed them yet. May get a chance to try on some fresh stuff tomorrow if the forecast is correct, or may be sensible and walk to dog to the pub instead! |
A foot of fresh snow would be fine with m+s tyres. It’s when the snow gets compacted that you need winter rated tyres. In those conditions m+s can be pretty useless.
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
| endoman wrote: |
| Had an XC90 once, drove it once in the snow here, terrible. 20 years ago Jeep Grand Cherokee with mud and snow tyres coped with a foot of fresh snow on the way to Val D with no bother at all. Now I simply wouldn't go anywhere without winter tyres. Have a rear wheel drive merc, fine in the snow here, have chains for alps, but not needed them yet. May get a chance to try on some fresh stuff tomorrow if the forecast is correct, or may be sensible and walk to dog to the pub instead! |
A foot of fresh snow would be fine with m+s tyres. It’s when the snow gets compacted that you need winter rated tyres. In those conditions m+s can be pretty useless. |
They were some fancy off roading tyre, BF Goodrich Mud Terrain, not winters I know, but they worked fine.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I like the look of those zip ties. They look easy to put on and easy to pack in luggage. May raid the kids amazon vouchers - much more practical than Lego.... Although Lego stuck onto a zip tie may work too! Same principle, more hassle to make though!
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Confession time, I completely forgot I got a new car this year & night before departure I found out old chains were wrong size
I’m in resort now but have to go to Geneva tomorrow night to pick friends up, not looking forward to it.
Will pop into large Carefour to try and pick up a set otherwise let’s hope 850m is not high enough
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