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Skier dies in La Plagne

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Pruman wrote:
dp wrote:
stuff


Aside from your unfortunate habit of pushing small children out of your entitled way,


Disregarding his views on helmets, it seems you (and others) haven't actually read what he's written re. pushing people out of the way.

He quite explicitly said the scenario is along the lines of:

- dp is skiing safely down side of piste at responsible speed
- Someone jumps from offpiste onto the piste right in front of him without first looking
- Assuming no other options (i.e. no space/time to stop, other people around), it's better for DP to crash into that person than swerve into the path of other innocent skier on his other side/off the edge of the piste on the other side where he might get hurt through no fault of his own

I don't see what's particularly unreasonable there?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@clarky999, I agree with self preservation if someone drops in on you and gives you no option.

But that's different from:
Quote:
I used to do anything to get out of the way and not cream weaker, smaller skiers. Now I have to just push them out of the way.


I think weaker/smaller would most often include children. It seems obvious to me that pushing them out of your way isn't an appropriate or safe action on skis. How come it happens to him so much?
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@foxtrotzulu, agreed that anyone can tackle a black, but with the caveat of pistes marked 'expert only'. These aren't signed to allow self-proclaimed experts to bomb down, but to prevent self-proclaimed non-experts from putting themselves at risk of injury.
I don't really get the 'mastering' of one coloured piste before progressing to the next. Depending on conditions, a blue can be trickier than a black.
And whilst there may not be speed limits, there are areas marked 'slow'. Eg. Where pistes merge/cross. I reckon this has historically proved to be sufficient.
In almost 40yrs of skiing I've never had to push someone out of the way, and I can't imagine not trying to take evasive action if someone pulls out in front of me.
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Levi215 wrote:
@SnoodyMcFlude, @t44tomo, @compostcorner, i 'heard' the other week that Schumacher had a modified go-pro mount with a bolt through the helmet... could be a load of bs but also could be true. The mounts with the 3M Gel i'm sure would come off under the level of force rather than go through and destroy the helmet... (anyway different discussion)


There's a lot of 'hearing' going on but the last report on the investigation in to his accident that I read stated he was travelling at a sensible speed and that the GoPro mount had no significant effect on either the accident of the outcome. Quite simply he was skiing normally, had an accident and just 'landed badly'.

I'm not sure where it got to in the end but GoPro were considering legal action against Formula 1 commentator and journalist Jean-Louis Moncet who was found to the source of the "the GoPro mount did it" rumor.
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Wa hey!! Another helmet thread, now, where's my high horse? Nothing better for bringing out the jihadis that insist that helmets don't prevent head injuries in the event of a fall/ collision or that helmets should be compulsory.
I've given my two penneth in the past, maybe I'll sit back and watch as the mud flies.
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Pruman wrote:
@clarky999, I agree with self preservation if someone drops in on you and gives you no option.

But that's different from:
Quote:
I used to do anything to get out of the way and not cream weaker, smaller skiers. Now I have to just push them out of the way.


I think weaker/smaller would most often include children. It seems obvious to me that pushing them out of your way isn't an appropriate or safe action on skis. How come it happens to him so much?


That's not what I meant by that at all.

What I meant by it was that if a well-built man (like myself) ended up in front of me in the situation I described many times, I would not feel as bothered about crashing into them as the force would probably be divided between us, and he would probably accept that it was his bad and we'd both carry on with our day hopefully without much more drama. BUT if it were a smaller, weaker person or indeed a child, I would always take the hit myself so as not to hit them at all - like the example of swerving to miss a cat. My attitude has now changed to the tune that it's not my fault they're skiing inconsiderately and I shouldn't lose my holiday or cost somebody else theirs, to save somebody who has acted like an idiot.

That's all I meant.


Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Wed 4-01-17 15:15; edited 1 time in total
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Pruman wrote:

Aside from your unfortunate habit of pushing small children out of your entitled way, you know the square root of f*ck all about helmet statistics and their affect on the actuarial business that is insurance. Despite the near saturation use of helmets, the incidence of serious head injury has, if anything, gone up.


What do you know about my knowledge of helmet statistics? What do you even know about me?

My polite suggestion would be that a helmet does nothing to protect your neck so you might like to wind it in.
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la Plagne is a very busy resort. There are a lot of beds on that mountain. I'm not sure if they ever limit numbers on the mountain, or if any resort still do.
Another very sad day and an absolute tragedy for the family.
Focus the is a high run and I'm not sure what cover is like lower down and whether this cncentrates skiers on the higher runs. I remember reports of New Year last year where VT was carnage due to the sheer numbers going up there for some snow.
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I stopped going to La Plagne over 20 years ago, because of the number of collisions....and regularly being knocked out of my skis, while waiting at the edge of the piste for members of the group (who were going more slowly).

The last time I was there, a young English teenager was slammed into by a hoard of French hooligans, who were there for the weekend. Both his legs were broken, he was helicoptered to hospital....and there was a police investigation. The poor Father was in bits (not surprisingly)...and was staying in our building. His Son wasn't even standing on the Piste at the time.

I also witnessed a young ESF instructor knock somebody clean out of his skis; then put his head down and ski away....the chap he hit fruitlessly tried to run after him, swearing in French, as both his skis had come off.

After that holiday (which was the second dangerous one), we have stayed clear, only venturing across from Les Arcs.

At that time, the wide open pistes attracted boy racers, who gave little thought to anyone else....I'd hoped things had changed for the better...and maybe they have a bit.
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Lots of cheap, self catered apartments.
A 4x2 in Bellecote without paw has always been one of the best deals in the Alps. The next year We paid considerably more for the '' upmarket ' Belle Plagne. After resoundingly can't polish a turd and never went back to La Pkagne. 3V is infinitely better for a family if you want mega miles and the Dollies another level still.
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Levi215 wrote:
@SnoodyMcFlude, @t44tomo, @compostcorner, i 'heard' the other week that Schumacher had a modified go-pro mount with a bolt through the helmet... could be a load of bs but also could be true. The mounts with the 3M Gel i'm sure would come off under the level of force rather than go through and destroy the helmet... (anyway different discussion)


That is what I heard few weeks ago from a French ski instructor as well, although he did stress that it was unconfirmed.

The rumour was that Schumacher made the modification himself involving the bolt in his own workshop for some reason and that is what could have contributed to what happened.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
La Plagne on its own (i.e. not with Paradiski) is the most visited ski resort by visitor numbers in the world and also one of the largest by kilometre of piste, so therefore I guess statistically one of the safest places in the world to ski...
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boredsurfin wrote:
La Plagne on its own (i.e. not with Paradiski) is the most visited ski resort by visitor numbers in the world and also one of the largest by kilometre of piste, so therefore I guess statistically one of the safest places in the world to ski...


Biggest amount of space per person - depends on the ratio of folk to space.

Safest? Depends on how many accidents there are snowHead snowHead
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@Norrin Radd,
Mine makes me warmer wink
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
cameronphillips2000 wrote:
la Plagne is a very busy resort. There are a lot of beds on that mountain. I'm not sure if they ever limit numbers on the mountain, or if any resort still do.
.


not sure about le plagne, but I know that last season VT stopped season pass holders at Christmas to reduce the numbers.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@eddiethebus, that was because of conditions rather than safety though.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quite old now. Look at the notes:

https://www.nsaa.org/media/68045/NSAA-Facts-About-Skiing-Snowboarding-Safety-10-1-12.pdf
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
https://www.premax.co/index.php/au/blog/recent-statistics-on-skiing-and-snowboarding-injuries
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Snowsports do carry a relatively high risk of injury, we all know the risks and hope to avoid injury by training, experience and following local safety information but sometimes tragic accidents happen. You can't eliminate risk but you manage it as best you can. Lets be happy we have the safety gear we do have in terms of helmets, bindings, body protection, weather forecasting, transceivers, ski patrols etc that generations before us didn't.
Condolences to the victim and his/her family.

Re helmets for me I'm happy its compulsory for kids in most resorts but prefer adults have the choice. I wear and don't wear depending on what I'm doing in terms of terrain/speed, crowds and weather. Prefer to have the choice.
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I got properly wiped out today from behind.
I had no warning, no inkling, just wham! I was on the ground, one ski off.

It was snowboarder...just sayin!

P.S. In Verbier there are hardly any snowboarders, this was a bearded snow-dude with a swallow tailed board. Such a board is designed for off piste, there is zero off piste to enjoy, it it hard and polished piste riding at the moment.
He could not get away fast enough in spite of the "Hey..You" from another passer by.

Snowboarders..... Evil or Very Mad
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@rungsp, hope you are OK? What I cannot fathom is how people can just ride/ski off without apologising and checking you are OK. Have had the same happen to me in the past, both by other skier and a boarder (twice). Sad
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@rungsp, While beardyboarder is clearly a jerk, there's no reason you can't use a swallowtail on piste, in the same way there's no reason you can't use a wide ski.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@rungsp,
I read your post as
Quote:
this was a bearded snow-dude with a swallow tailed beard. Such a beard is designed for off piste,


Is this what an off-piste beard looks like?



Personally, I'd seldom trust a snowboarder, or indeed anyone with a beard. A snowbaorder with a swallow-tailed beard seems like my worst possible nightmare.

As a brief aside, the beardless Sir Ivan Rogers looks like a photocopier repairman who lives with his mum, while Sir Tim Barrow's beard does, I admit, give him a little more gravitas.
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@foxtrotzulu,
This is a proper skier's beard:

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@musher, Oooh no Sad That just looks like some granny's pubic hair. Very Happy Very Happy
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Terry is a bit of a legend!
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
rob@rar wrote:
Terry is a bit of a legend!


Terry?

Is that ...... a photo of Musher? .... and is that really his beard? Embarassed Embarassed
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I was on that run either that day or the one before. I did not see anything relating to this accident but I do know what the conditions were like

Hi, 42 year-old snowboarder here. I was also skiing with a 15 year old lad.

We commented on how it was nice that they had got rid of the sledging route and repisted it. All the blues running back down into Plagne centre were suffering from balding patchs. I had a newly serviced board and he had brand new skis. Scratches and dints were aplenty.

Heading down the red there was a really good cover of soft snow it's quite a rolling run to begin with but beat in mind it's a red. Further down it narrows and bottlenecks. This is where people were being caught out. Many people had slowed down but there were a lot of people struggling.

The whole resort was like that that. Applying your own caution is all you can do. And that's still only going to get a be a contributing factor

The report is this lacking so much detail it could have been anything.

All I know is that conditions were very tricky.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Oh, and I've got a beard

And smoke doobies and am proper sick on the piste

Two of these are true. Maybe one. Or all three

I'm off to practice sitting in the middle of the road ready for my next holiday.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Quote:

Terry is a bit of a legend!


Seems like a lovely bloke. I really like ski bartlett - properly quirky but an absolute goldmine
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 Poster: A snowHead
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rungsp wrote:

It was snowboarder...just sayin!

Snowboarders..... Evil or Very Mad


For every skier who is hit by a boarder, there are just as many boarders who are hit by skiers.

There are plenty of us on here who ski and board.

Your out of date prejudices really make you look ignorant.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
cameronphillips2000 wrote:
la Plagne is a very busy resort. There are a lot of beds on that mountain. I'm not sure if they ever limit numbers on the mountain, or if any resort still do.
Another very sad day and an absolute tragedy for the family.
Focus the is a high run and I'm not sure what cover is like lower down and whether this cncentrates skiers on the higher runs. I remember reports of New Year last year where VT was carnage due to the sheer numbers going up there for some snow.


cameronphillips2000 wrote:
Lots of cheap, self catered apartments.
A 4x2 in Bellecote without paw has always been one of the best deals in the Alps. The next year We paid considerably more for the '' upmarket ' Belle Plagne. After resoundingly can't polish a turd and never went back to La Pkagne. 3V is infinitely better for a family if you want mega miles and the Dollies another level still.


I was skiing in La Plagne 17th to 24th December. I've also skied their numerous times before - both with my young children and without. I've not felt it any more dangerous than any other ski area I've been to (ADH, Killy, 3V, Les Contamines, a few bits in Austria). There is a general issue of punters who having better "skills" and equipment and as we all know speed kills. But that is across the piece not limited to La Plagne. Likewise, when conditions or terrain forces skiers into high concentration it's not inevitable but likely that more collisions will occur.

The most dangerous incident I can recall was when a teenage skier was within a metre of hitting my son (then 10) at high speed. It was late in the afternoon and there was hardly a soul on the piste. He stopped as he lost a pole when he hit my sons pole (they were that close) and he apologised saying he was "late for his lift" (he was French I believe but spoke English obviously). I wanted to tear into him but he was a young teenager and clearly in a rush so didn't hang around. IMO it could have been fatal but could have happened anywhere. There is nothing more to be said really. Maybe the teenager was shocked into realising what could have happened and has vowed not to make the same mistake. Who knows. I think it's called life.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Probably even more hit by skiers as the last 2 years I've noticed boarders are a fast disappearing breed. Now more trendy to be a twin tip park rat

As long as blades don't come back in fashion!
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foxtrotzulu wrote:
Terry?
No idea about musher's identity, but that's a photo of Terry Bartlett, of the Ski Bartlett shop in Uxbridge. He is a really nice guy.
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boredsurfin wrote:
La Plagne on its own (i.e. not with Paradiski) is the most visited ski resort by visitor numbers in the world and also one of the largest by kilometre of piste, so therefore I guess statistically one of the safest places in the world to ski...


Except last week there were limited runs open, so more people being concentrated into a restricted space.
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Was skiing in La Plagne over Christmas 2015 which was not a good Christmas snow wise. I've been skiing for best part of 40 years including a few seasons teaching so I had at least learned that when you stop to admire the view you do so at the side of the piste. This is what I was doing when the next thing that I didn't really know much about was I was hit by an, apparently, out of control child who was supposedly being supervised by his Dad. One of our group was a surgeon and confirmed that I had a broken thumb though I'm sure I could have worked it out for myself (perhaps I too should have been a surgeon). The thumb needed operating on and pinning so not much more skiing was done on that trip.
Since that trip I've done most of my skiing in Austria and have been blessed with good snow so bottle necks and overcrowded piste haven't been such a problem. But all too often you see an adoring parent following their spoilt brat who is hurtling out of control through crowds of innocent bystanders. In my opinion the ski patrol should take away the parent's ski pass for the child's sake as much as anyone else's.
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In Val D'isere last year I was coming down Piste M that goes down in to Val from the top of the Solaise. It was fairly busy. I watched a skier (young 20s french) take someone out. Him and his friend were then straightlining it until they fell over. They fell over maybe 4 times each in the space of 400 metres. Neither of them could ski. Both were completely out of control but they were laughing their heads off trying to go as fast as possible. These people should have their ski passes taken off them. Im a confident good skier. Other skiers dont bother me as if its busy i know i can just stick near the side and keep out of the way. My wife however is probably a weak intermediate so needs to use most of the piste to turn and get down. She also doesn't like going especially fast. We did 5 weeks in Val in 2014 and I would say she was taken off her feet at least 2/3 times per week by people trying to overtake on crowded runs that didnt have the necessary skill set to do so. In 90% of cases they have a quick glance back and then just ski off. Most cases it was a skier as well.

Snowboarders often seem like theyre out of control to skiers when in fact they arent. The sound the board makes also worries people. The fools that can do the real damage are the inexperienced skiers that are all going straight down everything with no means of stopping.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
bar shaker wrote:
rungsp wrote:

It was snowboarder...just sayin!

Snowboarders..... Evil or Very Mad


For every skier who is hit by a boarder, there are just as many boarders who are hit by skiers.

There are plenty of us on here who ski and board.

Your out of date prejudices really make you look ignorant.


I think your "I'm a snowboarder , everyone hates me" complex is getting the better of you... Light hearted but I notice that snowboarders, even the careful ones, aren't able to take a joke at all

Everybody chill
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Nothing out of date about my prejudices against boarders 😉
Although in my defense i did volunteer to do some filming for a boarder over xmas, looked like he might need a bit of variety in point of view. That was fun and appreciated.
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I like boarders. Some of my best friends are boarders and so are 2 of my sons. But the last two times I've been taken out have been by boarders. One of these, (last year's Birthday Bash), I was actually standing still behind a friend who had fallen and the boarder (yes, young male) still couldn't stop.

And I, too, am "just sayin".
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