 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi,
Just starting a bit of research for next winter. Spent the last 3 winters doing snowboard seasons, 1 in Whistler and then 2 in Chamonix. Chamonix has definitely moved the main focus over to splitbaording/ski touring and ski mountaineering type riding. There is still a huge amount of stuff to aim for if I was to head back to Chamonix for a third winter, however I would quite like a change of scenery.
So basically I am looking for some advice - where in Europe can come anywhere close to Chamonix? La Grave seems to have an €800 season pass for 1 lift which just isn't really an option. Main requirements out of a resort would be lots of scope for touring, decent snowfall, a good range of complex terrain, access to huts for multi day tours and at least some good lift served terrain for those powder days where touring isn't an option!
I know I just described Cham but as I say, a change wouldn't be the worst thing. I'll stop rambling, any thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@descenttravel.com, Les Deux Alpes pass is something in the region of 650 euros if you buy with max discount. Plenty of offpiste here. Link across to La Grave, 2 free days and 22 euros per day after. Can skin over if you want to tour from La Grave side. Pass also covers 10 days at Alpe D'Huez and Serre Chevalier with Montgenevre, Sestriere, Puy St vincent covered for a few days each.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Verbier and La Grave are the only two resorts in the whole Alps that can get close to Chamonix.
Alaska (steep) and Japan (deep) are the next best options.
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Monterosa?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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On the wilder side, but having just returned I'm pretty interested in spending a longer period of time in Terskol, Russia...
In the Caucasus mountains, with lifts on Cheget and Elbrus (at 5642m the highest in Europe, but the lifts only go to 3700 or so).
http://www.worldsnowboardguide.com/resorts/russia/elbrusandcheget/
I was there to climb/ski Elbrus rather than the resort (May is def too late for that), but we did get some good powder in the ski area too. It's obvious that in the main season the lift-access terrain would have HUGE potential.
The amount of freeride touring potential is off the scale insane. SOOOOO much to do (so much!!!), but the altitude is a killer so you'd really need to be there for a longer time to acclimatise.
Downsides are the town is very quiet (guess that may be different in the main ski season), amenities are few, and there's no chance of getting a job if that's relevant (the internet is good enough that you could work online though).
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It depends what you want to do. If you are interested in ski mountaineering and skiing steeps then you aren't going to do much better than where you have been going. That isn't my thing, which is why I rarely ski Chamonix anymore. It is too busy and I am not a good enough skier to enjoy what others love about it.
If you are interested in lift accessed freeride on terrain that is either not glaciated or is lower angled (i.e. below 35 degrees) then I think there are many other places to be that offer good skiing. Somewhere in the Tarentaise with a car is not a bad idea. I love La Plagne - big vertical, few ski bums and tracks fairly slowly. I also love both Andermatt (busy) and Disentis (quiet). Neither of those places is a secret and neither offers the scope of Chamonix but either has a wealth of good lift accessed freeride and touring.
I have never lived in Verbier but I have lived in Nendaz and the four valleys is fun if busy. The lift access is better from Nendaz/Siviez and the social life is better in Verbier/Le Chaux. The problem there is the willingness of many to ski high risk slopes at high avalanche levels, hence it tracks out fast and you may not get a sniff of some popular routes if you are not willing to push it. It is hard to maintain your own discipline in those conditions but I would imagine you are familiar with that problem from living in Chamonix.
La Grave offers a massive amount of terrain from one lift provided that you have reasonable mountaineering skills. There is a lot of good touring nearby, especially off the Lauteret and a solid ski bum community. Having spent a season in Deux Alpes, I would prefer to live in Alpe d'Huez if it came to a choice between the two. AdH has much better off piste skiing, including serious vertical. From a skiing perspective I would want to be in Vaujany rather than the resort itself as the lift access is better from that side.
Being a few beers down, I've probably missed something but there we are.
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@descenttravel.com, will you have a car ?
If so Serre Che is another option - from there you can drive over to LG when conditions are good and you get a 25% discount with the Serre Che pass. That said we only went over three times last season.
Loads of touring options, day tours, huts and when you get big snow falls then all of La Grave come over (if the Lautaret) is open to ski the trees of Serre.
I clocked up just over 40 tours of one sort or another last season.
From Serre you also have numerous other options of Deux Alpes / Alpe D'Huez on your lift pass. And the wonders of the Queyras and the Retour D'Est.
At the beginning of the season then the link to LG from Deux Alpes is not always open.
If you look at the snow reports section and the Serre thread you'll see what we get up to 
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Thanks for the advice everyone. @gorilla, Yeah we would definately be looking for the steeper, complex terrain side of things as oppsoed to more mellow slack country terrain. La Grave does look awesome but I cant deal with 1 slow old lift, Chamonix is about as bad as I can handle in terms of infrastructure for a full season!
@Weathercam, Yes we would have a car. I will have a look into Serre Chevalier and Alpes d'Huez I suppose.
It does seem like the overwhelming response is as expected though. For Chamonix type riding you can't beat Chamonix! Shocking 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@descenttravel.com, maybe not totally helpful but after 12 seasons in Chamonix I've the same problem. My "solution" has been to return to Cham but get around a bit more. There's all the stuff on the pass plus lots more on a day mission. This season we did lots up and down the Val d Aosta, and Verbier.
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| clarky999 wrote: |
On the wilder side, but having just returned I'm pretty interested in spending a longer period of time in Terskol, Russia...
In the Caucasus mountains, with lifts on Cheget and Elbrus (at 5642m the highest in Europe, but the lifts only go to 3700 or so).
http://www.worldsnowboardguide.com/resorts/russia/elbrusandcheget/
I was there to climb/ski Elbrus rather than the resort (May is def too late for that), but we did get some good powder in the ski area too. It's obvious that in the main season the lift-access terrain would have HUGE potential.
The amount of freeride touring potential is off the scale insane. SOOOOO much to do (so much!!!), but the altitude is a killer so you'd really need to be there for a longer time to acclimatise.
Downsides are the town is very quiet (guess that may be different in the main ski season), amenities are few, and there's no chance of getting a job if that's relevant (the internet is good enough that you could work online though). |
Interest piqued.
Visa easy to organise?
What kind of costs are you looking at please?
I was very impressed with Gudauri, Georgia. Not a million miles away 
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=123502
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Mike Pow, tbh I don't know! I was lucky enough to win my trip
I think the cost of the trip was ~€2000, but that may have been without flights, and you could almost certainly do it cheaper yourself. However English isn't that widely spoken, so it can be useful to have an agent of sorts on the ground.
The (Austrian) agency I won the trip from sorted my visa etc, though I understand you need an 'invitation' from a Russian organisation.
I have a good Russian contact now (speaks excellent English), so I'm happy to put you in touch if you want?
Re. Georgia, yep right on the border! To make the most of the freeride potential you'd be crossing the border and skiing both countries.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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tough to beat Chamonix but I guess other options not mentioned could include the other side of the massif (courmayeur), Engleberg
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
La Grave does look awesome but I cant deal with 1 slow old lift,
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I think you are letting negative reports of the lift colour your view of the place. The lift is not actually that bad. It will get you up 2000m in about half an hour with no real queuing problem. It compares very favourably with the GM or the utter shitshow I had in Andermatt earlier this year. There is frequently herbal tea in the mid-station, which is a nice touch.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@gorilla, Don't get me wrong, 2000m in half an hour with not too many queues sounds fine! It's more the idea of it being the only lift available every day for the whole season. Living in Chamonix comes with it's downsides but one thing you do get is variety. From the midi to les houches there is somewhere to go no matter what the conditions. Is La Grave really a place to spend 3-4months with only a few days here and there in other resorts?
No on has mentioned anything about St Anton and it's surrounding area (lech, zurs etc etc). €790 for a season pass covering a pretty large area sounds interesting. Anyone been ski touring etc around there? Much experience of the level of off-piste terrain in general?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Also, any idea on combination passes for Les 2 alpes, alpes d'huez and la grave? Doesn't seem to be anything other than minor discounts on day passes for the other resorts when you hold a la grave or 2 alpes season pass..
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@descenttravel.com, i mentioned, briefly, Monterosa earlier. Allegedly some world class touring, very fine off piste although possibly less powder driven than Cham, better food and wine.
Verbier also has to be on the list although it would be a different budget.
Or base yourself easy to get to any of these places, like... Chamonix!
The Disentis/Sedrun/Andermatt thing would appeal, but if you got into any trouble, I doubt anyone would find you by accident.
Does it need to be Europe?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@descenttravel.com, There's a huge amount of great freeride terrain in the Arlberg and it gets a LOT of snowfall. There's plenty of gnar and technical stuff if you want it, but most of the terrain falls into the freeride category rather than the skimo category it sounds like you want. That's including the skin-access stuff too btw (of which there's also loads).
If you like powder, cliffs, trees and hitting natural features then the Arlberg is one of the best ski areas around. If you want to rapel into no fall zone couloirs and get a lot of use from your ice axe, probably stick to Cham.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Tue 31-05-16 16:55; edited 1 time in total
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Alternatively, if the snow is good (which it frequently isn't) the Dolomites hold a lifetime's worth of the most drool-worthy couloirs you could possibly imagine. Problem is good snow is so unreliable you'd be taking quite a risk committing to a whole season there before seeing how it starts to shape up.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@under a new name, what it really comes down to is value for money. If I buy a season pass for Chamonix then I am not going to be driving to other resort and paying for day passes, it just isn't really an option. I know the unlimited cham pass grants discounts in some resorts so that is different. Verbier would end up being too expensive I think.
It doesn't have to be Europe, but due to having to be back in the UK at least twice over the winter, it is a lot easier and cheaper to shoot back from europe than from NA. I mean the savings on just 2 return flights from Vancouver or Seattle for example when compared to Geneva would all but cover the £800 for a season pass...
Monterosa does look like good value to be honest. €699 for the entire area, including Alagna which I have heard a lot of good things about. I always prefer Italy for food and drink, not to mention the obvious price drop as soon as you pass through mont blanc from France. Do you have any input on the best/most popular place to stay for seasonaires in the Monte Rosa area? Thanks!
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| clarky999 wrote: |
| Alternatively, if the snow is good (which it frequently isn't) the Dolomites hold a lifetime's worth of the most drool-worthy couloirs you could possibly imagine. Problem is good snow is so unreliable you'd be taking quite a risk committing to a whole season there before seeing how it starts to shape up. |
+1 from the little I've skied it.
I had excellent conditions this past March.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Thu 2-06-16 14:12; edited 1 time in total
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@descenttravel.com, it's late, I'm on soft keyboard, I know a few crazy (good crazy) Danes who hang out in Champoluc. Monterosa is well and truly supplied with good hut, etc.
I'll be more verbose in the morning.
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| descenttravel.com wrote: |
| Also, any idea on combination passes for Les 2 alpes, alpes d'huez and la grave? Doesn't seem to be anything other than minor discounts on day passes for the other resorts when you hold a la grave or 2 alpes season pass.. |
L2A pass includes
- 10 days in l'Alpe d'Huez
- 3 days each in the following resorts: Montgenèvre, Puy Saint Vincent, Serre-Chevalier, Sestrières
- 1 day in Flaine
- 2 days in La Grave (further days at 22€)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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And this is why people can find Cham so frustrating, the descriptions of the lift queue and on the hill 
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=125854
Many LG locals got tired of it (Cham) all too, and a few have now even moved on from LG which has got a little busier since I've been going every years since 97.
That said if you are a mountaineer (happy with rope etc) then LG still has many many options.
Just that now, many of the main routes can get skied out quickly, but my last visit there back in April was a classic empty La Grave
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@descenttravel.com, personally for Monterosa I'd stay in Champoluc as there's more going on. Everywhere else is a hamlet (actually, I can't really talk about Alagna),.
Assuming you have a car, access to Gressoney is - one funicular, two chairs so no real issue - and anyway the place doesn't get skied out like Cham.
From what I hear, there is just the most amazing area for touring etc. http://aosta-valley.co.uk/discover/activity/mountaineering/
Back on Cham, last year the MBU gave unlimited Courmayeur, and I think 8 Verbier days - but included Evasion Mont Blanc for more mellow days...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@under a new name, for tourist season passes it was 6 Verbier days at half price (all in separate weeks [?]). It was the locals and annual passes that received free days. Which explains why this Yorkshireman only had 1 day there last year.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@HammondR, I have a local annual pass...
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You know it makes sense.
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Alagna / Monte Rosa should suit you well. Have all the ingridients that you are searching for. It is quiet though, but cozy.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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+1 on both the Arlberg and Dolomites, doing Sella Ronda this year I was agog at the amount of couloirs off the massif, there is one lift that goes up there and no piste down, very like Midi in that way, problem is they are historically less well off for snow fall, but there must be at least some good dumps every year? You would learn a new language and its a nice culture, people are sound, food good and cheap. Has been said that Italians aren't as in to off piste so less competition but certainly the sella was totally tracked out when I was there.
Arlberg has simply fantastic off piste and touring potential. Verbier also renowned.
I used to mull over what resort to go next year for ages and ages but then realised there's always another year after next year so if that applies to you then pick one of the above and enjoy
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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In the same boat so interested in this as after 5 seasons of MBU lift pass use I am totally bored with the area. Whats the damage for things like accommodation in Arlberg something decent like 50/70m2 ? Only going to do a month this time so open to all idea's. What about Engleberg?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Rasputin wrote: |
| In the same boat so interested in this as after 5 seasons of MBU lift pass use I am totally bored with the area. Whats the damage for things like accommodation in Arlberg something decent like 50/70m2 ? Only going to do a month this time so open to all idea's. What about Engleberg? |
In St Anton itself a decent flat is not cheap, I would say quite a lot more than Cham. However, most seasonal visitors stay slightly down the valley (the bus service is pretty good, far better than Cham so staying in Petneu or Strengen is not a big problem).
Engelberg is a great place, I've only skied there a few days but I'd say there was a lot more terrain in the Arlberg.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
In St Anton itself a decent flat is not cheap, I would say quite a lot more than Cham. However, most seasonal visitors stay slightly down the valley (the bus service is pretty good, far better than Cham so staying in Petneu or Strengen is not a big problem).
Engelberg is a great place, I've only skied there a few days but I'd say there was a lot more terrain in the Arlberg.
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How much more we talking? I paid E7,5k for the season in Cham... loath to spend more than that. Thankfully have a motor so not to worried about buses and such like.
Thanks
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Rasputin wrote: |
| Quote: |
In St Anton itself a decent flat is not cheap, I would say quite a lot more than Cham. However, most seasonal visitors stay slightly down the valley (the bus service is pretty good, far better than Cham so staying in Petneu or Strengen is not a big problem).
Engelberg is a great place, I've only skied there a few days but I'd say there was a lot more terrain in the Arlberg.
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How much more we talking? I paid E7,5k for the season in Cham... loath to spend more than that. Thankfully have a motor so not to worried about buses and such like.
Thanks |
Well, I briefly considered a small 2BR appt a few years ago, it was a pretty nice place and short walk to the centre and had covered parking... The owner wanted over €12k for the season. I didn't look anymore after that, it is possible this was at the top end of the price range, but even so...
I think further down the valley would be a lot cheaper, so €7.5K should be doable for studio or maybe even 1BR in Petneu for example. I'm afraid I don't have recent experience, I've put my plans to do another season on the back burner for now.
The tourist office can help you out though: http://www.stantonamarlberg.com/en/accommodations/seasonal-accommodation
PS. Having a car is useful, but parking in St Anton itself is a pain, €7/day. You would save a lot by using the free ski bus.
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@Rasputin, is that €7.5k for the entire season or just the flat?
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I skied Montarosa (Gressoney) this year and was very, very impressed. I'm with @under a new name on this! It doesn't have the same range (or steepness!) of steep terrain as LG or Cham but there is A LOT of it and it's empty by comparison. Having said that, the longest rappel I've done was in Gressoney at a full double rope length. Relaxed vibe, commuting options aplenty, cheap quality grub, Italian ladies...what's not to like?
Lofoten matches Cham and LG but we don't talk about that...
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easy - try the Dolomiti (ok not right now )
hands down the best of the best if you're looking for steep couloirs or canale in Italian. And oh yes the food has has France beaten by miles.....
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