 Poster: A snowHead
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@cameronphillips2000, I think I've read it before. It was published in Feb 94. What is interesting, in light of the current situation, is this para.
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| Changes to the current system are, however, under way. The UK, France and nine other member states have signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) to create a professional card for European ski instructors. The first professional cards are expected to be issued in 2014/2015. This will go a long way to helping standardize practice for ski instructors while also helping to guarantee the sort of professional teaching everyone should be free to enjoy. |
Does this mean that the Italians have looked at Simon Butler's current qualifications and the length/depth of his experience and decided that they were equivalent, and sufficient to award him one of the "first professional cards" under the new system?
And are BASI telling them their judgement is wrong?
(I'm not an expert in anything so I may be completely wrong.)
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Has this video appeared in this thread yet? https://vimeo.com/122735999
He explains the MoU and what a Delegated Act is. BASI also gets a good kicking.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Sat 15-08-15 17:11; edited 2 times in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Steilhang, I just thought the language used ... The Italians have been duped..... was fairly insulting. As was the BASI letter. And it was rude of them to have written in English, too. Surely with all those highly qualified and experienced European chappies around, somebody could have a go at a letter in Italian? I'll bet some of them feel qualified to teach skiing in Italy.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Exactly how many of the current ISTDs have actually taken the Eurotest?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Gerry, WoW
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| flangesax wrote: |
| @Gerry, WoW |
Insightful isn't it?
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@jbob, 350 Active ISTD's in the system, only 15% have the Eurotest.
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@Gerry, I've just sat through all three of these videos.
The third one (linked below) is powerful stuff!
The claims earlier that Admin has to worry about any libel is nonsense when these videos are in the public domain.
https://vimeo.com/124553844
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Teacher, thank you.
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| Quote: |
He explains the MoU and what a Delegated Act is.
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Does he? Must have missed that. Long on emotion but short on detail, but also quite entertaining. 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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So can anybody answer me this then please,
Andrew Lockerbie CEO of BASI Does not have his Eurotest but has his Carte Pro & MOU stamp.
Don Bates Does not have his Eurotest but has his Carte Pro & MOU stamp. and sits on the BASI Board.
Both these individuals have their full ISTD and sit both work in Megève, France and both have something to gain by putting Simon Butler out of business.
So my question is this,
SIMON BUTLER PASSED his ISTD before these two individuals, way way before, so why can't he have his MOU like everyone else?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| Quote: |
He explains the MoU and what a Delegated Act is.
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Does he? Must have missed that. Long on emotion but short on detail, but also quite entertaining. |
It's 11 minutes long, not 11 seconds. A MoU is an agreement between member States while a Delegated Act is a directive from the Commission which member States must abide by. At least that was my understanding, but I'm not a conveyancing solicitor.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Sun 16-08-15 7:48; edited 1 time in total
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| flangesax wrote: |
| @Gerry, WoW |
+1
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You know it makes sense.
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| Teacher wrote: |
So can anybody answer me this then please,
Andrew Lockerbie CEO of BASI Does not have his Eurotest but has his Carte Pro & MOU stamp.
Don Bates Does not have his Eurotest but has his Carte Pro & MOU stamp. and sits on the BASI Board.
Both these individuals have their full ISTD and sit both work in Megève, France and both have something to gain by putting Simon Butler out of business.
So my question is this,
SIMON BUTLER PASSED his ISTD before these two individuals, way way before, so why can't he have his MOU like everyone else? |
Very good question.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@flangesax, I only just found them.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Here is a link to all three videos if you have a little time to spare:
Just follow the link as there is nothing to embed!
https://vimeo.com/user27657882
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Presumably BASI wrote themselves a stiff email when they discovered they themselves had been issuing SB's MoU in error and not just once and swiftly withdrawn with contrite apologies AIUI. Would be interesting to see the exact determination and history of this "error".
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| flangesax wrote: |
@Gerry, I've just sat through all three of these videos.
The third one (linked below) is powerful stuff!
The claims earlier that Admin has to worry about any libel is nonsense when these videos are in the public domain.
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Why?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@waitrose, Please answer my question.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Well.. he just plainly states that BASI along with other organisations have plainly been lying to their members.
[edit] although i aint no lawyer innit and everfink is a bit internety for me...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| flangesax wrote: |
Well.. he just plainly states that BASI along with other organisations have plainly been lying to their members.
[edit] although i aint no lawyer innit and everfink is a bit internety for me... |
What's that got to do with the principle of a site owner knowingly allowing libelous posts to appear on their site and how that would be perceived in law?
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Sat 15-08-15 18:35; edited 1 time in total
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From the intertwattery, "ISPs are no longer considered to be responsible for the information that their users publish online"
If I were Admin, I'd be not worried in the slightest.
If I were BASI I'd be worried about all sorts of things, not least being a comedy act of ski instruction certification.
(Apologies to those who've gone down that route.)
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| Gerry wrote: |
| ... What's that got to do with snowHeads knowingly allowing libelous posts to appear on their site? |
"libelous" is a technical term and probably that doesn't work the way you think it does. You'd be hard pushed I think to convince anyone that anything here is particularly likely to be taken seriously by anyone.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| under a new name wrote: |
From the intertwattery, "ISPs are no longer considered to be responsible for the information that their users publish online"
If I were Admin, I'd be not worried in the slightest.
If I were BASI I'd be worried about all sorts of things, not least being a comedy act of ski instruction certification.
(Apologies to those who've gone down that route.) |
Why, is he an ISP?
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| philwig wrote: |
| Gerry wrote: |
| ... What's that got to do with snowHeads knowingly allowing libelous posts to appear on their site? |
"libelous" is a technical term and probably that doesn't work the way you think it does. You'd be hard pushed I think to convince anyone that anything here is particularly likely to be taken seriously by anyone. |
Not the test for libel, old son. Waitrose's comments regarding SB would certainly diminish his reputation in the eyes of right thinking people.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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They might also diminish his reputation in the eyes of the John Lewis partnership. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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And he'll probably be banned from their supermarkets and have to use Sainsbury's instead  .
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@laundryman, I was too slow!!! 
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You know it makes sense.
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| maggi wrote: |
| And he'll probably be banned from their supermarkets and have to use Sainsbury's instead . |
Whatever, old horse, it's still a serious accusation against SB.
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Sat 15-08-15 18:57; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Despite numerous aunt sallies, straw men, not to mention red herrings we may at last be getting somewhere.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| jbob wrote: |
| Despite numerous aunt sallies, straw men, not to mention red herrings we may at last be getting somewhere. |
Where exactly is that then?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Gerry, why are calling me an "old horse" 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| maggi wrote: |
| @Gerry, why are calling me an "old horse" |
Monty Python reference, don't worry about it.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Teacher wrote: |
So can anybody answer me this then please,
Andrew Lockerbie CEO of BASI Does not have his Eurotest but has his Carte Pro & MOU stamp.
Don Bates Does not have his Eurotest but has his Carte Pro & MOU stamp. and sits on the BASI Board.
Both these individuals have their full ISTD and sit both work in Megève, France and both have something to gain by putting Simon Butler out of business.
So my question is this,
SIMON BUTLER PASSED his ISTD before these two individuals, way way before, so why can't he have his MOU like everyone else? |
This was exactly the question I was asking. What exactly is this MoU and how come some of the other old guys, with all the qualifications, get it and others selectively don't? Who makes these decisions and on what basis? Also, by what right does BASI think it can dictate to the Italians whether or not it can issue an MoU to someone who has the appropriate qualifications?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Steilhang wrote: |
| Teacher wrote: |
So can anybody answer me this then please,
Andrew Lockerbie CEO of BASI Does not have his Eurotest but has his Carte Pro & MOU stamp.
Don Bates Does not have his Eurotest but has his Carte Pro & MOU stamp. and sits on the BASI Board.
Both these individuals have their full ISTD and sit both work in Megève, France and both have something to gain by putting Simon Butler out of business.
So my question is this,
SIMON BUTLER PASSED his ISTD before these two individuals, way way before, so why can't he have his MOU like everyone else? |
This was exactly the question I was asking. What exactly is this MoU and how come some of the other old guys, with all the qualifications, get it and others selectively don't? Who makes these decisions and on what basis? Also, by what right does BASI think it can dictate to the Italians whether or not it can issue an MoU to someone who has the appropriate qualifications? |
Crock of sh*te ain't it?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Steilhang, Part 2/3 from 10mins may answer some of your Qs. All fairly interesting, in a bureaucratic sort of way.
Edit: that bit has been posted above.
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| cameronphillips2000 wrote: |
| flangesax wrote: |
| @Gerry, WoW |
+1 |
+2
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| Gerry wrote: |
| Steilhang wrote: |
| Teacher wrote: |
So can anybody answer me this then please,
Andrew Lockerbie CEO of BASI Does not have his Eurotest but has his Carte Pro & MOU stamp.
Don Bates Does not have his Eurotest but has his Carte Pro & MOU stamp. and sits on the BASI Board.
Both these individuals have their full ISTD and sit both work in Megève, France and both have something to gain by putting Simon Butler out of business.
So my question is this,
SIMON BUTLER PASSED his ISTD before these two individuals, way way before, so why can't he have his MOU like everyone else? |
This was exactly the question I was asking. What exactly is this MoU and how come some of the other old guys, with all the qualifications, get it and others selectively don't? Who makes these decisions and on what basis? Also, by what right does BASI think it can dictate to the Italians whether or not it can issue an MoU to someone who has the appropriate qualifications? |
Crock of sh*te ain't it? |
stinking cesspit full of it by the looks of things.
My next naive question : Had SB NOT had his MoU withdrawn ( for reasons that are still quite unclear to me ) would the French authorities still have been able to prosecute him for not having all the required certificates?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Waitrose I would love to hear your opinion of what the chap in the video said?
From where I sit, is this not the argument that SB has being stated all along? ie that you don't need the euro test to teach in Europe? and that as one of the SB guys told me earlier in the year that he believed there had being collusion (not that they could prove it yet) between basi and the esf to propagate that myth?
I must say they were very confident that the truth would out and that they would be proved right and vindicated and basi would be left looking a little silly, is this video the first example of this coming out? I have got to say when I listened to it, it was almost word for word what I heard a few weeks ago.
Last question - who was the guy in the video and whats his job title?
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@waitrose, whatever other tosh is spouted on this thread could people please desist from claiming that BASI's current stance is supporting the "vast majority" of its members. Only a tiny proportion of the BASI membership are or will ever be ISTD's. The rest of the pyramid would all benefit if SB is proved correct.
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FAQ
