Blimey, what a mess. The Frenchies really need to get their act together.
I think that's very unfair.
I don't think it is. As you say rockfalls and landslides are expected. Surely someone should have asked the question and put a plan in place for such an event on a busy changeover day. Same thing with a large snowfall, poor weather. It's not to say it won't cause problems. The question is what is the damage limitation plan, how can you minimise the disruption and inconvenience. According to the OP the French mayors are "furious" - so if I am being unfair so must they be. The alternative is to carry on and do the same thing each time. It's just one of those things as it were.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
The comedy writing of cameronphillips2000 is the best thing about this thread. A literary boulder amongst pebbles.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
The roads above and below Chamonix are prone to rock falls and avalanches. On the road to Argentiere in the riskiest area is a "paravalanche" (think "parapluie" but for snow slides) and above the road to Sallanches is a para-rock fall whose exact French name escapes me.
Protection against rock falls is not beyond the ken.
Looked like a pretty expensive project over two summers it must be said. Maybe the skiing industry isn't that valuable.
I think the French are actually quite good at roads. There are a fair number throughout the Alps where there are workers abseiling down cliffs and securing banks all through the summer.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
and aren't maires always up in arms about something or other?
The biggest Alpine landslide (rockslide) I'm aware of is the Randa incident (which involved two slides), into the valley that leads to Zermatt. This took place in 1991, just after the ski season, in April and May, so the resort was extremely lucky with the timing.
It's a huge and spectacular scene to this day - look out for it when on the train (and Zermatt is always best approached during daylight hours!) ...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Not sure it's a problem with the roads or more just issues management. Stereotyping I know but the French can IME be pretty bad at that. Certainly the check into our apartment at Christmas was shambolic
They did a great job with the emergency shelter though so fairs fair
After all it is free
After all it is free
Breaking News. The Rock that blocked the route up to Val Thorens has been signed by MLS outfit Kansas City to play in central defence in the 2015-26 season in a contract reputedly worth $100M. The news was broken by the Rock's publicist and agent Klax Mifford, who went on to add that the rock will be allowed a three week mid season break to be allowed to star in new ITV series 'I'm a Rock, Get Me Out of Here' due to be filmed in Alps next February. There will also be a full spread photoshoot of the rock his partner rock and their pebbles at their new 25M Euro resting place in Courchevel 1850 in next months Hello magazine.
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Of course, there are always going to be unforseen problems but that's the point - you can't obviate them but perhaps you can moderate them. One of the chalet owners posting here said they telephoned their clients, which is an obvious measure (well done). Most airlines now allow you to get notifications of flight delays by just registering your mobile number against the flight number. It seems odd that there's no mechanism for resorts to allow you to register you mobile against a destination, perhaps also with travel dates, and then you receive updates on your phone in your own language. Surely, Tour Operators would find this cost-effective way to simplify handling of transfer passengers (even just things like 'your transfer bus is at gate 'x')? Or is something like this already available? Some resorts have quite good Apps with maps and GPS tracking, with functions like 'Find my Friends' (for which you have to register your mobile no.), so this would just be a simple extension, I would have thought.
I get notifications from the Serre Chevalier app on my phone of traffic delays, severe weather etc.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
And there is always twitter, a quick search suggests there was plenty of info available for anyone who searched
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I remember diving back from Ser Che one year and seeing avi and landslide debri on the L2A side of the road that looked like it had been left by some very serious slides. i thought at the time that it's only a matter of time...
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@cameronphillips2000, there has been a few rockfalls around the tunnels by the dam recently too, one of which blocked the road for a while. Fortunately it was October, so few were affected.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
the Gorge d'Arly road (from Ugine towards Sallanches) is closed as much as it's open, some years. Hugely expensive to maintain, by all accounts.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
we had a sunday change over day in morzine this jan.you would not believe how quiet the drive was from Calais all the way to morzinehardly saw another car all the way.absolte bliss.but also madness that the whole of the French resorts change over on a sat from prob around 4am right through to early evening putting massive pressure on the roads and infrastructure.ps chalet owner was English think she knew we wouldn`t be late.8.5hrs from Calais to morzine at a steady 70mph
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
We've spend hours in the car from Chambery to resort on the Saturday before New Year. No problems or road works. Just very busy.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@leferret, happens all over the world. Most UK cottages and caravans have Saturday changeovers too. It maximises holiday time, and allows people time to get home before they go back to work. Cleaners may have other weekday jobs and want to spend time with family on Sundays, which may be the only day off they all get together. I do have Sunday changeover as standard at my apartment, but I am constantly asked by people of all nationalities, UK and French included, if I will change it to a Saturday. I have done so outside of peak season.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
pam w wrote:
the Gorge d'Arly road (from Ugine towards Sallanches) is closed as much as it's open, some years. Hugely expensive to maintain, by all accounts.
Blimey, what a mess. The Frenchies really need to get their act together.
I think that's very unfair.
I don't think it is. As you say rockfalls and landslides are expected. Surely someone should have asked the question and put a plan in place for such an event on a busy changeover day. Same thing with a large snowfall, poor weather. It's not to say it won't cause problems. The question is what is the damage limitation plan, how can you minimise the disruption and inconvenience. According to the OP the French mayors are "furious" - so if I am being unfair so must they be. The alternative is to carry on and do the same thing each time. It's just one of those things as it were.
Well, I suppose they could always bring in some Chinooks to move vehicles as an underslung load ... realistically going to many of the resorts there is only one mountain road; if that's blocked there's no alternative except to clear the rock fall and try to stabilise the area of the rock fall. Doing that is never going to be quick. I'm sure you would complain if a 50 ton rock made a dent in your car.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
marksavoie wrote:
Layne wrote:
emwmarine wrote:
Layne wrote:
Blimey, what a mess. The Frenchies really need to get their act together.
I think that's very unfair.
I don't think it is. As you say rockfalls and landslides are expected. Surely someone should have asked the question and put a plan in place for such an event on a busy changeover day. Same thing with a large snowfall, poor weather. It's not to say it won't cause problems. The question is what is the damage limitation plan, how can you minimise the disruption and inconvenience. According to the OP the French mayors are "furious" - so if I am being unfair so must they be. The alternative is to carry on and do the same thing each time. It's just one of those things as it were.
Well, I suppose they could always bring in some Chinooks to move vehicles as an underslung load ... realistically going to many of the resorts there is only one mountain road; if that's blocked there's no alternative except to clear the rock fall and try to stabilise the area of the rock fall. Doing that is never going to be quick. I'm sure you would complain if a 50 ton rock made a dent in your car.
Indeed, and as I said before there is realistically no other space other than the autoroute to put the cars once that vast number is on the road. If people had looked at the val thorens website before they set off there wouldn't have been a jam. We contacted the people going to our apartment on the Friday so they were aware of the blocked road.
As Pam said it's the local honcho's job to kick up a fuss and try to get something out of the government.
These are big mountains with big weather, big rocks and big landslides. The fact we can drive to them, get carried up them in little bubbles or seats suspended in the sky and then ski down them in relative safety, eat out on them , go to the loo on them and stay in a warm apartment at 2000m in mid winter still amazes me. The fact it all runs smoothly most of the time amazes me. Ski resorts and their infrastructure are amazing things.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Reports are emerging that the VT rock has just checked in to The Priory. Sources suggest this is due to 'exhaustion'
After all it is free
After all it is free
I never really understood why the insistence on Saturday changeover. For the accomodation and ski resort operators one furious day of cleaning and organising people, checking in and parking up. What do those folk do for the rest of the week?
If changeover was any day of the week, then such events as we have seen would affect approximately 1/7 of the number of people: surely much less of a disaster?
What am I missing?
And yes, the first box I check when searching for ski accomodation is "Sunday transfer": less chance of being stuck for hours in traffic and lovely empty pistes on Saturday.
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@Strax, many of them have other jobs. people would need to take more holiday from work if it was a midweek changeover.
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
@Strax, agreed 100%
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Summer holidays by tour operators don't have a Saturday changeover exclusively so it is possible. Not sure how easy it is to link variable start date with ski schools.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Skied in Soldeu for about 10 years with holiday companies always transferring on a Sunday - Toulouse airport usually busier that it could comfortably cope with and the transfer route just a queue of coaches, resort mobbed on a Monday morning with the new arrivals trying to hire gear and get onto the mountain. One year we travelled on a BA package holiday which transferred on a Saturday. Airport was empty, transfer route quiet and quick.....the only issue we had was the whole resort (hotel, hire shops etc) were all geared around the Sunday changeover so there was some confusion when we arrived on the Saturday! However, skiing on the Sunday was heavenly as it was so quiet with just a few locals on the slopes.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@Kennyboyo, I think part of the issue is the fact that for many skiing is an extra holiday. Many want to maximise their time on the slopes with as little time off work as possible. No-one is interested in arriving on other days, and although Sunday is my usual changeover day, about 50% of my winter visitors have still wanted to arrive on a Saturday.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@Kennyboyo, the ski schools point is a good one.
We're going to Zermatt early April, Thursday night to Wednesday late afternoon, and we had lots of problems getting my 4 year old daughter into ski school. It was either very pricey private lessons, or she just does the 3 days Monday to Wednesday with some daycare the other days, which we plumped for in the end.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@Kennyboyo, you're trying to change the entire holiday habits of a population.
French accommodation of almost any description makes the vast proportion of its winter income in 6 weeks - Xmas, New Year and the 4 weeks of Vacances Scolaires.
French holidaymakers will sometimes travel Friday-Friday, at the expense of a not in resort hotel at the start and giving up a paid night at the end.
Demand is such in "big"resorts that no hotel will accept a non-sat-sat booking. Small operators/independents generally don't have the flexibility due to not having permanent staffs to change around. I know of some examples who have tried and failed miserably.
That said, we now have an excellent crew who can changeover any day so out of high season we have become very flexible indeed.
But ultimately, you're dealing with a cultural artefact that (if tales are to be believed) results in 30% of annual fatalities on French motorways happening on one day...when everyine who has a car, drives south for the summer annuals.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
It's a bit self perpetuating. I absolutely agree that it isn't helpful for many reasons but it does make it easier on the logistics for lots of others.
We get quite a few requests to rent out our apartment mid week to mid week or sunday to sunday. The benefit to the customer being flexibility and cheaper flights. However, we can't do it - or vary very rarely do - because you then have to find someone else who wants the apartment from the next day. You basically either lose a weeks rent or charge people for 2 weeks. Plus, our key holder, as well as the cleaners, does other work - maintenance and renovation - during the rest of the week so it would be difficult arranging that.
When we go ourselves we always go mid week to mid week. The traffic is non existent, even during peak months, and you also get the benefit of skiing on the Saturday. Saturday skiing is wonderful.
It would be great the the resort actively engineered a move to more flexible changeovers but I can't see it happening unless the market really made a big issue of it. Maybe a few more snowmagedons and rockmagedoffs would start forcing change.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Colorado March 8th 2010.
This happened on I-70 ( Major East/West Us Interstate) the night before I was travelling from Denver to Aspen. Almost a 200 mile diversion !!
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
