Camper van in Alps

A snowHead

I'm thinking of taking my van to the Alps next year for 2 - 3 months, and just wondered if anybody on here has had any experience of doing similar.

Thanks, Ali

A snowHead

We met folk who were doing just that when we took our caravan. They all seemed to be having a wonderful time and we thoroughly enjoyed our own Alpine holidays in our caravan. It is wonderful to have the freedom to go where the snow looks best!

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

alisim, there are loads and loads of camper vans in my resort - Les Saisies - at the busy times of year they are cheek by jowl - so there's obviously a lot to be said for it. Particularly if you have the equipment to do without electric hook ups, hot showers etc - because "proper" sites are not cheap.

One problem is lift passes - the best way to save on a season is to get a season lift pass for one area - and there are lots of discount deals now, for passes bought well in advance. If you "follow the snow" around the Alps you might spend on lift passes much of what you save on accommodation.

If I were looking at "2 - 3 months" in a camper in the Alps (in France at any rate, which is what I know about) I'd go twice, once from early January to early February, and again from early March till the end of the season. Missing out the manic "vacances scolaires" altogether. Because I really don't like lift queues.

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You will spend a lot of money on lift passes if you move between resorts. However, you will probably find that you only ski on days which are perfect and the snow is good (as you will follow the best snow around). You can save money on lift passes by only having a half day sometimes because you have a hangover or a lie in due to arthritic cold inspired aches.

The variety of different skiing in resorts has to be balanced against the knowledge gained of one resort if you stay there all season. I could not imagine staying in a small ski resort all season, I would just get very bored. The other thing you will notice, is that you do not see the same people every day if you are trapped in one ski resort because you have purchased a season pass. Travelling around can increase fuel costs, but you can also defrost your van and visit some beaches in the South of France for a while. I did that a few times on a visit to Andorra.

I am not sure what equipment is required in a van. I personally found that hot showers can be substituted with a plastic bucket of warm water and a facecloth. A toilet with a petrol can and a large funnel. Most ski resorts have public toilets somewhere, but you sometimes have to pay for this. You really do not need much electricity in the back of a van. The most consumption is used by a fridge, and lets face it there will be enough cold places in your van to not need one. Lighting and entertainment were my biggest uses of electricity. Lighting was the thing I missed most when the batteries went flat. Just get a cheap (or expensive) battery operated lantern led light. Use that for back up.

Heating is the big issue without electric hook up. Some people run their engines for about 3-4 hours in the evening before bedtime. This makes the van very warm even in extreme cold. Make sure your van is well insulated, especially the roof and the doors. Windows are just a nuisance in a winter van. Condensation is an issue, which means you need to defrost your van regularly or the damp will build up. When you are warm, and under 2 x 4 season sleeping bags and a heavy tog downie on top of a memory foam mattress with a hot water bottle, only your nose and face gets cold when the room is -5 to -10 C. A balaclava, neoprene face mask, or whatever you use on the slopes to keep cold wind off your face will work quite well when sleeping.

I have recently been reading up on closed cell foam as it acts both as sound barrier and insulation barrier. It is also good because it repels moisture. I tried a variety of insulation materials, some good, some a waste of time. After the third year of spending time in the Alps, the van had several layers of insulation. The reflective bubble wrap is quite good at avoiding condensation. Polystyrene floor underlay with reflective coating of aluminium was also quite good at sound reduction. I did not used closed cell foam. It can be quite expensive.

I tried a variety of heating implements. The most common heater used in winter vans is a catalytic gas heater with an in out flume at the side of the van. This should be fitted by an expert, I just used a coleman black cat and made my own flume with a gas condensation flume.

Security is an issue when leaving your van to ski all day. I never encountered any problem in ski resorts. The major problem occurs in supermarket car parks, where non-skiers or locals hang out. My van door lock was knifed, and an old pair of 10 year old ski boots were stolen along with a great ski boot bag. (the kind that is like a rucksack, and allows you to climb up with your boots and skis to inaccessible pinnacles)

I am not sure what the solution to the security issue is. Make your van look like you have no money. Do not leave valuables in the van. Park it near other campers in resort, usually in an out of the way spot not seen by tourists. All the vans which cost £60,000 + in the resort will provide you with an electricity hook up to their generators. (do not get a generator, it is noisy and a waste of money. Get out of your van and go somewhere warm in resort like a church or something)

You might want to invest in a fire blanket, and a couple of fire extinguishers. Luckily I had been trained in using fire extinguishers, and getting the right type for the kind of fires you might get is important. If a fuel based fire is likely, then you should ensure you try putting one of these out with a fire extinguisher. The fire brigade gave me a demonstration by lighting a big pan of petrol and showing how different fire extinguishers would put it out. Water is a waste of time in such fires. CO2, or powder based extinguishers work best. However, the fire blanket will be most effective if you can smother the fire. The problem with fuel based fires is when you point the fire extinguisher at the fire, it only puts out the fire where you point it. When you move where you point it, the fire starts again. Sometimes foam fire extinguisers are available, it depends on what type of fire you might get.

I did not get any fires, but I did burn holes in my sallopettes when cooking. I also spilled fuel at the back of the van.

Laughing

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

alisim, assuming you have all the winter-profing aspects covered, there are province wide season passes in Austria which means one pass covers practically all the resorts in one of the states. There are a wide range of all-year round campsites with full facilities you can use as well.

The Tirol Snow Card costs 696 Euro and is valid from 1st October 2014 to 15th May 2015. The Salzburger Super Ski season ticket costs 593 Euro (if bought before 4.12.14, then 665 Euro) and runs from 8th November 2014 to 3rd May 2015.

These would enable you to explore as many resorts as you like within the province and maybe just over the border into the next (SSS pass includes the Kitzbühel lifts and the Schneewinkel ones in Germany for example).

You'll need to Register first of course.

Have a look at motorhome ski website, becoming a little neglected but still a lot of information there. Largely common sense with regard to wintering the van. One of the big issues for a protracted stay is the cost of lift passes. A season pass (France) will usually pay for itself in less than three weeks but then you are restricted to that domain. Our preference has always been the small resorts on a daily pass and don't ski when the weathers poor. You can usually get three or four days without getting board and then move on, do the shopping buy gas, etc., etc., and then on to the next resort. Another major consideration is whether to use campsites or not. Nice to have electricity, showers, etc., but not cheap, expect to pay 20/30 euros a night. Again our preference has been to just park up in a quiet corner of the car park or use one of the aires that most resorts in France have. Much cheaper, often free and some even have electric hook up, though best to have a generator. However you go about it and that really depends on personal preference I'm sure you'll have a great time, we are currently planning our tenth trip.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

As Bigtipper alludes to, heat and power are two of the biggest challenges to 'independent living'.

Most campers are set up for Summer living so you might want to put a bit of extra attention into heating/insulation.
This is a good, cheap insulation material - http://www.diy.com/departments/diall-loft-insulation-l8m-w370mm-t100mm/197658_BQ.prd
It's like loft insulation but made out of recycled plastic bottles so it's not itchy to work with, doesn't rot etc.
Best used in conjunction with a dense, reflective layer though, which can be a bit more expensive.

A diesel powered heater is cited by people than anything else as the thing that made the biggest difference to their campervan comfort when they started using it outside traditional Summer/Autumn seasons.

Obviously shorter days and longer nights mean a more decent sized leisure battery is called for. Site this somewhere the temperature is more stable: -20C isn't generally good for batteries.

After all it is free

I tried the paraffin heaters. Whilst they were very effective when in use, and the flame was in a sealed compartment, there were issues with fuel spills. The fuel in my heater was in a sealed 4 litre steel can. The lid to the can dripped paraffin onto the wick when in operation. When not in operation, there was no leaks. However, when you move the van the shaking tends to make the paraffin heater leak. So you must either completely empty it, or keep it somewhere in transit that leaks can be collected in a tray.

It depends on the size of your van and the ventilation. If you use the paraffin heater when the van fans are running there should be no problem, provided you have a flat level area to place the heater well away from flammables (not usually easy in a small van).

Another thing if you fit your own leisure battery, make sure it is secured when moving the van adequately. When I was testing out the van with my battery, I had a problem in that the battery moved a little bit, and a short circuit occurred whilst the battery was being charged from the alternator. I did not fit a diode at that time, nor a charge controller, and so I had a reverse jolt of electricity which blew some electrics in the van. Mainly the security system.

Gas obviously has other issues. For both gas and paraffin heaters, you need to ensure adequate ventilation otherwise the flame will go out due to inadequate oxygen.

Some heaters and ventilation

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If you look at the picture above with the gas heater on the inside of the van, there is a white cylinder going to the side of the van at the top. Around the white cylinder is a creamy foam. This is actually closed cell polyurethane foam from a can. I sprayed some down the sides of the van as insulation. It hardens into a foam, which repels water and is good insulation. It can be quite cheap, but tricky to use.

You might also notice that the roof is slightly lower in one photo compared to the other. I needed more roof insulation, so I created a suspended ceiling and filled it with bubble wrap and aluminium foil as well as stapling some polythene underlay to the roof. It was much warmer with the lower ceiling, and often I would not even need the heating. (body heat would make the van warm enough at night)

Insulate the van well!

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I ski out of my converted panel van as not only does it save money but it gives huge flexibility. I have a globecar campscout on a Fiat Ducato Maxi Chassis. With work I cannot book far in advance but I can keep all my kit in the Alps and then fly back as and when required. Also, it means you can cook your own bacon sandwiches in the morning - not having to lug kit back and forth means I can pack bacon! Easy cheap secured parking is available near most airports. There are several things that are important once you have a properly winterised insualted van with winterised heated anks etc. First of all you have to be super organised and disciplined. You can't just come in after a hard day on the mountain and flop. You need to get your kit dry etc - this is easy to achieve if you can close off the shower area and direct hot blown aire into this drying cupboard. I can manage about 4 days straight of being super organised and adminstering myself properly in a tiny space (I have a full shower and WC with hot water) but then it does help to spend 1 night on a campsite or use a swimming pool/spa shower for a really good sort out of kit. Keeping the van clean is difficult with snow outside (turtle mats help a lot)

Secondly, parking somewhere sensible, safe and legal and preferably free. In France this is generally easy and there are often great little communities that spring up around the lifts. For example, around Chamonix and Argentieres there are numerous locations. In the Tyrol specifically as opposed the Austria generally it is technically not allowed to wild camp as in France. This can mean an early knock on the door by the police. I had this happen in St Anton and Seefeld. They have let me off with a talking to but apparently the fine is 500 euros. This is such a shame as I really want to take advantage of the Tyrol snowcard. I'm thinking of doing it this season. I have quite a discrete dark van (albeit and proper camper van and not a stealth van) and after dark it is pretty invisible 20m out.

In sum, it's great but can be difficult. It allows me to do much more skiing than I could otherwise afford but it does require effort at the end of a hard day. At the moment it's worth it. If I had the budget for a large A Class and campsite fees then it would be definitely better than a hotel.

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I was told the best place to camp in St Anton was behind the police station. Laughing

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Camper van in Alps

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