 Poster: A snowHead
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Thoughts on skiing in Japan. All this based on our recent trip to Niseko.
The conclusion first...it is fantastic!
Now the details:
Flaying there....Japan is a long way and long haul flights are never going to be cheap.
Booking well in advance you can get a direct flight to Tokyo for £775 or so, less if you are willing to connect.
I would strongly suggest it is worth paying that bit more for the direct flight, it is about 12 hours to Tokyo and with a connection it is much longer as there is the connecting time to contend with and the fact that it is going to be a much less direct route.
You then need to get a connecting flight to New Chitose Airport at Sapporo.
It is simple to do that for a couple of hours after Tokyo arrival, it is the same terminal at Narita Airport (JAL flight).
JAL and ANA have a special jpy10,000 offer for any internal flights so long as you buy them overseas and have proof of your international flights. This is cheaper than booking them elsewhere.
I have an Amex card that accrues Avios (British Airways) points and with this we had enough points for a return flight (30,000 needed each way).
The Amex card has an added extra: if you spend over £10k in 12 months you get a companion voucher which means a second person can go with you without needing any extra Avios points.
You only pay for the tax (both ways) and on a return that is £375.
Booking Avios tickets: They need to be booked well in advance. They are cancellable at any time up to 24 hours before flight with full refund of points and money, just a £25 fee to pay.
Booking two one way legs costs no more in points or cash than a return flight.
JAL and BA code share and it is possible to book London-Tokyo_Sapporo on Avios at no extra cost, only a few extra Avios Points.
For some weird reason you cannot book Sapporo-Tokyo-London, only Tokyo-London. No good reason, you just can't. So I would say book the return trip as two one way journeys and just suck up the Sapporo-Tokyo one way domestic cost (about £65).
There are several bus companies running transfer busses from Sapporo to Niseko, costs about £18 each way for the 2.5 hour bus ride (which is much cheaper than the comparable in Europe).
Accommodation:
There is plenty of choice from dormitory style with shared bathrooms to deluxe hotels and chalets (not catered, there are no catered chalets of the European style).
We wanted a simple place, but with en-suite bathrooms.
There are loads of Lodges, but the great majority are shared bathrooms. One called Slow Life seemed to stand out and other snowHeads (meh for one I think) have stayed there and liked it.
http://slowlifeniseko.com/
We chose the Australian Alpine Club. It is, obviously, a club, but you don't have to be a member to stay there.
http://www.aacniseko.com/
£33ppn. Rooms were simple, but comfy beds. Bathroom was micro, but it was ours! Good breakfast included in the price. Full equipped kitchen if you want to cook yourself. tea and coffee on tap all the time.
What really made it was the other guests, such nice people. A great social atmosphere. My wife had just blown her ACL and could not ski but there was often somebody else not skiing and chit-chatting.
Skiing:
Niseko is akin to skiing in Utah resorts around Park City, but without the altitude. Not really mountains, these are big hills.
If you are looking for Alpine splendor, look elsewhere, but if you are looking for snow...WOW, DOUBLE WOW!
Lots of snowboarders, but I'm not bothered by that.
No drag lifts, almost all chairs, and almost all without footrests. A couple of single-seaters which was anew one for me.
Did I mention the snow? Did I say WOW?
Look at Mike Pow's fantastic thread on the snow reports page.
If you feel that piste skiing is what it is all about and require no less than the £V's or Val D'Ispair then Niseko, and probably Japan, is not for you, but if it is accessible off piste, deep, deeeep powder and tree skiing then Japan IS for you.
The locals were somewhat complaining about the lack of snow, but I have never seen anything like it. Every day (except the first two) would have qualified as the best powder day of my life in Europe, and each of those days was "wait until it really starts snowing" in Niseko.
There are bus trips to other resorts:
Moiwa...didn't go
Kiroro...OH MY GOD!
Rusutsu...OH MY GOD +1
They are pure resort hotel mountains, no village at all. Absolutely ideal for day trips, perhaps not to stay there though.
Food and Drink:
We eat out ever lunch and dinner. Japanese food every time.
We never paid more that £15 a head, usually more like £7-9.
For that you get a very nice meal, not one single disappointment, even on mountain.
I admit that we were not eating in the deluxe places, some of which Mike Pow likes to go to for a treat, but these were not shabby at all, far from it.
Drink is variable...beers are a bit more expensive then you would think, but spirits are very cheap.
At Rusutsu I had a sudden desire for chips...and the hand cut chips on the mountain were the best I have ever had, anywhere, in my life. Most unexpected.
Overall the cost of accommodation, food and drink would be a good deal less than most of Europe (at this point I cue Pam W who will always find somewhere that is the exception! I sometimes wish she was my travel agent  )
Lift pass:
If you go in March you will ALLEGEDLY find that any number of departing seasonnaires on 90 day visas have season passes to sell. As Niseko does not actively use photo technology then the risk is up to you. I can say that nobody is ever questioned.
Even at normal prices a lift pass is a lot cheaper than most of Europe...a 7 day pass cost £215, i.e. £30 a day.
Remember to leave a couple of days spare for those trips to Kiroro and Rusutsu, passes cost about the same there, but at Rusutsu you get a free lunch voucher included.
I cannot comment on equipment hire as I took my own. You will want fatish skis, there are lots to hire there.
A plethora of ski schools, loads of them! Some a lot better than others, I am biased but my son worked for Pro Powder and they insist on properly qualified people, all native English speakers. Some ski schools are not so fussy.
Overall I loved it.
Japan is surprisingly inexpensive once you are there, certainly cheaper than most of Europe on a like for like basis. Because of the flight you cannot wait and get last minute bargains but if you need to go at Half Term for example, and consequently have to book well in advance, then Japan would probably work out cheaper!
The worst thing is that Japan has somewhat spoilt European piste skiing for me, and realistically that is what I do the most of. It will just pale in comparison.
I will certainly go back. No doubt at all.
PS People were lovely, sightseeing in Tokyo and Kyoto was a superb way to top and tail the trip, 2 weeks away in total.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Mon 17-03-14 21:20; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rungsp,
Great write up and thanks for sharing but:
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Flaying there....Japan is a long way and long haul flights are never going to be cheap.
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Is it really better to go S&M class 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Yeah we stayed at Slow Life was very nice and suited us being skiing with a few beers rather than beer with a bit of skiing.
Glad you enjoyed the trip I'm already working on convincing my girlfriend we need to take our daughter as soon as she'll cope with the deep snow and long-haul. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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sounds rubbish, no desire to go at all 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Just back from doing the season there. Unbelievable. Shame the visa rules make going back there to work such a pain.
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rungsp, great report. did you use Black Diamond at all or any other to help guide you? we had guides for 8 days and it did make route selection easier in terms of knowing where could be skied etc. Not sure what to do when I go back (next year hopefully).
completely agree about Kiroro. Presume you heard that this was once owned by Yamaha and mainly for employees!
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Great write up rungsp.
Shame we didn't get to ski together. Hopefully next time.
The lunch voucher at Rusutsu isn't free. It's a more expensive day ticket that saves you about JPY 400 on lunch.
Having your own transportation will make a massive difference to your return visit.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Nice write up, would agree with most everything, apart from which is the best ski school, obviously 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Great report, thanks. Doubt I'll ever get there, but interesting to read anyway.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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chrisJersey, Black Diamond run a great business.....but I really think it one built on client aprehension.
Route selection....if you are inbounds I can see hardly any need to be guided at all, and certainly not at their very premium price.
I did have my own family guide...my son was a Pro Powder instructor all season. When it came to Kiroro and Rusutsu I knew as much as he did though, we explored together.
Kiroro is now owned by a Thai man who is a friend of my other friends. He bought everything there...the lot!
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Totally agree re Japan, but you don't need to go up to Hokkaido for tree skiing and powder if you can't face the connecting flight. We stayed in Hakuba Happo One- about a 4-5 hour transfer by road or rail and road from Narita airport. Good piste skiing, fab snow there and the surrounding small resorts,though there is a ban on off piste. (Given the ave 11-13m snow fall annually on piste skiing after a dump can be amazing!) The limit on off piste there is more than made up for by the highlight of the area - go up the road to Cortina (20 mins in a taxi, 40 in the bus) which gets even more snow.....trees, powder, and room to roam. The prices are the same as rungsp, described, likewise his description of the rather clunky lifts applies equally in Hakuba. There is a sense of lack of investment, and we were the Japanese are concerned about being taken over by foreign skiers. The plus side of that is that the resorts are quiet! Though Hakuba does get busy in the Aussie Christmas (I.e Summer ) holidays. We had planned to go to Myoko for a couple of nights, which is more Japanese and also has no rules against off piste but there as such a huge snowstorm we couldn't make it. We will definite be back, probably to try Myoko and Nozawa Onsen which is very traditional.
Oh yes...don't forget the onsens-naturally spring fed hot tubs for relaxing after the ski day 
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You know it makes sense.
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rungsp, why would you say it's spoilt your European Piste skiing?
For me going there made me "not bother" on some Euro off piste runs with dust on crust, but I still enjoy piste skiing on skinny skis!!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The sheer amount (and consistency) of snow in Japan is amazing, but a really deep day in the Alps is better than anywhere; the terrain is on a different scale. Just a shame we don't get the really deep really cold blower anywhere near as often (and not at all outside Japan for me this season).
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Poster: A snowHead
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Fair comment kitenski, I will do my best when I go to Switz next week.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| clarky999 wrote: |
| The sheer amount (and consistency) of snow in Japan is amazing, but a really deep day in the Alps is better than anywhere; the terrain is on a different scale. Just a shame we don't get the really deep really cold blower anywhere near as often (and not at all outside Japan for me this season). |
+1
I've had deep days in big mountain terrain and they are the pinnacle.
But unfortunately as rare as Hen's teeth unless you tour far & wide or get in a heli.
Hokkaido is all about consistency and quality.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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When you get a real powder day do you really need mega terrain?
The best two days skiing of my life were at Kiroro and Rusutsu. Extraordinary snow, and all we did was lap after lap on a single chair lift in each case.
The terrain was well spaced trees, nothing all that steep.
I could not have had more fun.
The same place with boilerplate would have been pretty lame....but the percenatges are VERY much on your side.
Of course nothing is 100% guaranteed but 8 of 10 days there would have been my lifetime best powder day in Europe.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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rungsp, nice to have both 
I had some really incredible days in Japan, and skied the deepest snow I've ever been in at Kiroro. Well up there in my 'best ski days ever.'
But when the snowfall and the real cold combine in Europe... My best day ever remains 60cms of overnight -20(something)C blower in Austria. Only problem is you only get 1 or 2 (or none, this year) days like that a season over here. Normally it's much warmer when it snows.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Really need to make it to Hokkaido one of these days.
Unfortunately my two trips to Hakuba have coincided with warm weather, rain and freeze thaw conditions.
Still a fantastic cultural experience and no lift lines during the week. A trip to Tokyo or Kyoto is highly recommended.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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rungsp, Cheers for the write up. I must make the pilgrimage.
Mike Pow, How hard do you reckon to organise a season in Japan ?
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Very easy in this part of Hokkaido AndAnotherThing.
Long term rentals available.
A car is a must to make the most of the area.
Cost of living very affordable.
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Mike Pow, Cheers. How do you sort out your car when you are out ? Also, is broadband internet readily available ?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Need an International Driver's Licence. There are a couple of places to get a car for the season. Or you can buy and sell on at the end.
Broadband readily available.
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Mike Pow, Cheers. Tempting...
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