 Poster: A snowHead
|
An article from today's Telegraph;
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/michael-schumacher/10549393/Michael-Schumacher-invulnerable-skiiers-willing-to-risk-everything-for-the-thrill-of-the-slopes.html
| Quote: |
| Fabrice Jolly, a paramedic for the Val d’Isere ski patrol for the last 15 years, has witnessed such a rise in thrill-seeking, especially among young skiers inspired by the daring exploits they see in online videos. “People are skiing way too fast and don’t respect the limits on the piste,” he says. “We call them blue run world champions – which is why we see more injuries on those kind of [basic] slopes than even on black runs. If you want to be safe, you need to put a bit of humility in your backpack. |
The article doesn't mention snowparks which I believe must have increased injuries. I don't have any figures but 'blood wagons' are always parked at snowparks just waiting for more customers.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
but I don't wear a backpack....
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
People get injured skiing - Newspaper shock!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Also says "fly fishing more dangerous" but that's not such a good headline.
Is it really true that skiing is becoming increasingly popular leading to more crowded pistes?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
There are far fewer collisions and a much better standard of skiing behaviour than when I started in the 80s
Young British skiers are often the worst offenders though and as such the resorts they frequent are best avoided
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Some sensationalism, some dodgy stats and I am not at all sure that skiing is becoming more popular.
But some reasonable points - off piste is definitely more accessible. How many snowheads for example, who are buying fatter skis, presumably to ski off piste, would be happy skiing powder on a pair of 1990 203cm slalom skis?
And piste grooming definitely makes it easier to ski quickly. We've only skied 7 days this season but on each one we've witnessed someone skiing too fast for the situation and too fast for their ability. (I am putting myself out there as being capable of judging someone's ability of course...)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Not sure how Dr Griffiths copes with the icy roads/footpaths, numerous 4x4's, delivery vehicles, buses etc as accidents from these risks are just as likely, if not more so, than skiing/boarding 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| red 27 wrote: |
| There are far fewer collisions and a much better standard of skiing behaviour than when I started in the 80s |
Really? I remember long lift queues and relatively uncrowded pistes. Whereas now I rarely queue more than five minutes for a lift but find it necessary to consciously avoid crowded pistes when possible.
The Médecins de Montagne statistics say collisions are becoming significantly more frequent as the cause of injuries.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
red 27, sadly not.
Having had the backs of my skis skied over twice in the last fortnight by someone travelling too fast to avoid stationary me on side of piste, in those cases I feel sure my argument is meritorious 
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
I can't believe that people don't stop after a collision - what is wrong with people?
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
trainee snowboard jedi, whether true or not, there was a tale on our local round robin from a boarder complaining that while he was dangling from a cliff edge, having had a bit of a tumble, only two people stopped to help and call securite while a whole gang of idiots stood taking photos and posting them to their facetwat accounts.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
red 27, although upon reflection, I guess that skill does not perfectly correlate to being able to ski quickly and safely.
P.S. according to Skistar, the global ski market is more or less stable... http://corporate.skistar.com/templates/NormalPage.aspx?id=179 I wonder however, whether there is a concentration of activity away from smaller local areas towards the bigger names/brands? Increasing skier numbers/densities in more high profile areas?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Just as an alternative here are some 12/13 statistics from the German Stiftung Sicherheit Im Skisport.
- since 1979/80 accidents on slope have fallen by 58%
- a small overall increase in injuries over 11/12, but never have so few needed hospitalisation.
- knee and shoulder injuries saw an increases, knee injuries especially prominent for women.
- last three seasons have been pretty constant in overall injury rates
- the historically low amount of hospitalisation can be attributed to a reduction in severity of accidents and an increase in those treated as outpatients.
- proportion of head injuries was 7.2% a reduction of 1.5% on the previous year (slightly higher proportion of men suffer head injuries).
- 49.6% of female injuries are knee injuries (an issues because of the general severity of knee injuries, high treatment and consequential costs).
- injuries from collisions have dropped substantially from the 1980s though there has been a slight increase over the last few seasons.
http://www.ski-online.de/files/dsv-aktiv/PDF/Aktuelles/ASU-Unfallanalyse-2012-2013.pdf
Key mitigations to avoid accidents which are suggested include:
- strengthening front and rear thigh muscles.
- core strengthening.
- improved ski technique.
- correct binding setting.
[edit: changed autocorrected promotion to proportion]
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Sun 5-01-14 12:52; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| nozawaonsen wrote: |
Key mitigations to avoid accidents which are suggested include:
- strengthening front and rear thigh muscles.
- core strengthening.
- improved ski technique.
- correct binding setting. |
Surely that should be to avoid injuries for points 1, 2 & 4?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
I agree that the much improved lift systems are putting too many people on the piste at one time. It is now no longer possible to wait for a quiet spell at the top of a cable car like we used to. Massive gondolas and chair lifts now fill the pistes quicker than they clear.
The speed at which one can go from beginner to intermediate and thus increase speed is also a major factor in these crowded pists.
Personally I am lucky enough to be able to travel to quieter resorts and ski away from of busy season times, If you have the choice do not sk in Europe in February! Do your research and choose a smaller resort. the overall pise length and modern lift system is not everything.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
red 27, I didn't really differentiate, I suppose to avoid 'accidents which cause injuries.' You don't think injuries could be avoided by improved skiing technique?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
THe Sunday Times are also throwing around dubiously noted stats.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
According to a headline in today's Sunday Times there were only 1,400 skiing accidents in the French Alpes during the 2012/13 ski season of which only 5.2% required hospital treatment. That is 73 people! Wow! All those ambulances must be taking the heart attack victims down to the hospitals in the valleys.
My suspicion is that the Sunday Times just cannot do numbers (they have the decimal place in the wrong place) and after reading the rest of the article present coherent arguments either.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| dogwatch wrote: |
| The Médecins de Montagne statistics say collisions are becoming significantly more frequent as the cause of injuries. |
But that's not the same thing as there being more of them. It's probably due to improvements in binding technology meaning that injuries from 'solo' falls are less likely these days to result in a knee injury.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| nozawaonsen wrote: |
| ' You don't think injuries could be avoided by improved skiing technique? |
Ask Lyndsey Vonn and Chemmy Alcott...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The only collisions I have witnessed myself both involved very low speed skiers one being Mrs jirac who on two separate occasions was struck by skiers of very limited ability but thankfully also relatively slow but who were out of control. I was able to ensure all parties remained present until we establish extent of injuries and welfare. Both incidents left Mrs j nervous of faster skiers descending from behind. I think as she improves her own mountain craft it will help her avoid similar incidents by being more aware of the odd idiot. I don't know how common an occurrence this is but I guess it is a risk of skiing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
It is a real issue but no obvious solution. I don't mind poor weather 'cos it keeps the speed of the quite good but not as good as they think they are people down. And it is mainly a concern on easier slopes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
I've had a few people (always blokes) zoom past at high speeds far too close to me, and scare the absolute crap out of me.
I think some just do it for a laugh to scare other skiers, as silly, dangerous and irresponsible as that sounds.
You see many people going way too fast on busy and nursery slopes - I always slow down in both of those situations.
I also agree with a comment someone made that less people are taking lessons because it's too expensive and they'd rather spend the money on super-cool fat skis.
The 'winter host' on a recent holiday I was on told us he had never had any lessons, and certainly he had a very strange technique. He also told us that on his day off he got yelled at by three different people including two instructors for going too fast, but didn't seem to care.
The careless speed demons mostly seem to be young blokes trying to impress their mates, rather like young blokes in chavved-up cars.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
'invulnerable' skiiers willing to risk everything for the thrill of the slopes'
and that's just the M25 getting to Gatwick...
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
Every time I go to a resort, I can count at least one time someone has ran over the back of my skis on their hurry down a linking run to a chairlift. Last season, as I waited at the edge of such a run for my companions, a snowboarder decided to use me as a means to stop. It doesn't matter how many times I look uphill or how carefully I choose my line. There will always be one idiot.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| red 27 wrote: |
| dogwatch wrote: |
| The Médecins de Montagne statistics say collisions are becoming significantly more frequent as the cause of injuries. |
But that's not the same thing as there being more of them. It's probably due to improvements in binding technology meaning that injuries from 'solo' falls are less likely these days to result in a knee injury. |
The same figures (last few years) showed overall incidents approximately flat-lining, so they suggest collisions are becoming more frequent.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I know several people who seem obsessed with constantly beating their personal best top speed recorded on smart phone apps.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
sequoiaboard, Me too and they use blue runs (that are for all abilities) to do it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
Considering the number of ski days most of you guys have here, and considering the number of incidents you are involved into, I'm obviously doing something very wrong (or most likely very right ), even though there's quite few people around here, who would never ski in same resort as I am (based on their comments). In all these years (some 30+ years on slopes, with nowadays about 100+ days/year on snow, and before with even much more) I never had a single close call, and even less collision or anyone running over my skis (or me running over someone else's skis).
So instead of blaming everyone else, who happen to ski faster then you (maybe, because he or she did spend half of his/her life ski racing, and is still on snow more in single winter then you have been in your life) for being irresponsible idiot and god knows what else, I would start to think what you guys are doing wrong, to have some many incidents.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
primoz, you narrow minded self gratifying fool!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
primoz, it doesn't matter how good you are, there is no excuse for putting other skiers at risk or deliberately skiing too close to them.
I ski safely, always look before moving off and make sure I'm aware of who's around me - but I still see many, many idiots doing stupid things.
I've had very few collisions myself, but I've been knocked over from behind by a dick on a snowboard.
I don't think anyone's skied across my skis though.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Sun 5-01-14 17:29; edited 2 times in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
primoz, similar for me as well. I've never had someone ski over my skis, other than shuffling around in lift queues. Only had two collisions since my first ski trip in 1979 (one was equally my fault when skiing with a mate on a university ski trip, the other was at such a slow speed in a bumps field that it was quite comical).
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
rob@rar,
| Quote: |
I've never had someone ski over my skis, other than shuffling around in lift queues. Only had two collisions since my first ski trip
|
Without wishing to tempt fate, same for me (from the other end ie the punters' end of the spectrum). First collision was nobody's fault, we skied either side of a large lump in the piste and turned almost comically into each other, but the second was caused by young English chap who knocked me over and skied into my head in the process. At that point I started wearing a helmet.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
there are lots of people who never have a fatal car accident....does that mean they don't happen or affect others. to throw in the "well its never happened to me so its clearly everyone else not me at fault" is pretty lame. You could be the best skier ever but if a complete numpty loses control in your direction then there's a chance you are going to be involved in a collision. Thankfully proportionate to the number of skiers these incidents still seem to be few and far between.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
jirac18, I ski very defensively when there are lots of people around me on the piste, it freaks me out, especially since my brother-in-law was taken out in a hit-and-run incident in Meribel, and very nearly died as a result. I quite often download at the end of the day, rather than ski on a very crowded piste, and have frequently been known to sideslip down the whole length of a busy run, on the edge of the piste, rather than get involved in the carnage in the middle.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
You can whine on about people being incompetent and drunk at resorts. Alternatively you can change your own behaviour so you aren't affected by those things.
Personally, I'm responsible for my own safety, so I deal with incompetence and drunkenness at resorts because they are there. The result is I've never had my board ridden over, never been hit by anyone.
It may be worth considering that some people's indignation at the fact that others don't follow their personal rule set is getting in the way of being able to deal with things the way they are. Whatever, I don't suppose this will change.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
meh, good post.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
Yes I think it's a given that all us 
s always ski in control and never cause accidents.
We just need to acept that as a part of the unregulated (thank goodness) nature of the sport...
