 Poster: A snowHead
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I'm just back from completing the Alpine L1 coach course. If anyone wants a very quick overview on the current format let me know.
Word from the trainer is that there is talk of bumping this module up to the L4 set and removing it as an L3\ISIA requirement.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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AndAnotherThing.., who was your Trainer?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Interested to hear all about it please.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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rob@rar, Sean Langmuir
kitenski, I'll jot some notes and post them when I have a mo.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Please do - it looks like a lot of fun and I've been thinking about giving it a go when I get the time.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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AndAnotherThing.., well done ! I think it would be a backwards step if BASI removed this course from the ISIA level. Three days to better understand coaching as opposed to instructing is time very well spent imo and the L2 course for ISTD feels right to me...
I am a little unclear on a few things perhaps you could help with... What are the specifics on getting licensed status? I have had a few shadow me at HSRC and were filling in a logbook. Is there a set number of hours or do you do enough shadowing so that when you are reviewed by a trainer you are signed off? Do you need to do setting as part of the licensed status? The two recent shadowers didnt seem to clued up on this.
The workbook looks good but I havent seen the manual. What is it like ?
ps the course report you linked to that I did back in 08 was very different, only ran a few times and then was changed to the current UKCP model so not really comparable.
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| AndAnotherThing.. wrote: |
Finally remember, Race Club or Ski School ? RACE CLUB !. |
Sorry, whats this about?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Elston, there is a very, very big difference between how ski schools and race clubs operate and train kids...
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skimottaret, Cheers. The move to move it to the L4 did raise a couple of questions in my mind. It will be interesting to see how the ISIA qualification develops with BASI.
With regard to becoming 'licensed', as I understand it you complete the log book as you work with your kids and then ask an assessor down to your local slope for an assessment day. The pre course pdf covers the process very well and I'll email it over to you. However, the suggested progression was to complete the L2 training\log book and then get assessed. Until then you should be working under supervision.
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| The workbook looks good but I haven't seen the manual. What is it like ? |
Erm, I think the workbook is the manual(?)  Not ideal given that you don't have to have completed any previous BASI courses before attending. No BASI Alpine or generic manuals were given out, which is a shame as I could do with a copy of the new version.
| Quote: |
| ps the course report you linked to that I did back in 08 was very different, only ran a few times and then was changed to the current UKCP model so not really comparable. |
Just glancing back it doesn't strike me as being massively different and would give someone a broad idea of the type of activities to expect. The main things things excluded were running gates, specific GS stuff and ski tuning.
Elston, It comes back to the difference in running a ski school 'lesson' over a Race Club training session for kids aged 6 - 12 years and was strongly featured on the course, hence the emphasis. Very different to say instructing nervous adults on plastic.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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AndAnotherThing.., skimottaret, cool and I would like to do the course at some point but i really do hope that an emphasis is placed on teaching the little ones to respect other slope users. I am certainly not saying they all don't but I have seen a few too many near misses at Hemel for it to be a coincidence.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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AndAnotherThing.., Back in ye olden days there was no distinction between instructor and and coach as far as BASI were concerned. I've been qualified as an L2 instructor for over 15 years , but the vast majority of what I actually do is coaching (albeit at a fairly basic level). Doesn't seem to be a problem for the organisations I work with.
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AndAnotherThing.., was wondering about manuals, i had heard a rumour that the CSCF relationship had lapsed and basi couldnt use their content, seems odd they dont have anything in terms of manual.. the work book seemed okay but not a patch on the canadian info we got which was very detailed and deep. The course i did was a combination of the three dayer and another 3 days on GS gates and drills from the old APM , i ended up getting an L2 license from BASI under the UKCP which is cool...
how was it graded pass / fail or 1-4 ?
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You know it makes sense.
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Elston, at HSRC we haven't had an U12 injured since the centre opened , one or two decent smashes and a few bruises and scrapes and sore knees but nothing lasting. in a club training environment it is more about keeping em out of danger in courses as opposed to FIS code rules...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| RobW wrote: |
| Back in ye olden days there was no distinction between instructor and and coach as far as BASI were concerned. |
Indeed, and I recall hearing it directly from 'the horses mouth'. Ironically this was while on a Coach course with another organisation. 
skimottaret Yep, I was expecting lots of goodies as per Robs report. With regard to pass fail, the 1-4.
1 (Initiation) for the coaching and 2 (Acquisition) for the skiing. Getting the licence would be cool rather than trainee status.
With regard to the pass rate, I've no reason to think anyone failed.
Elston Yep, safety and group management were stressed.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| Elston, at HSRC we haven't had an U12 injured since the centre opened , one or two decent smashes and a few bruises and scrapes and sore knees but nothing lasting. in a club training environment it is more about keeping em out of danger in courses as opposed to FIS code rules... |
In a controlled environment (such as a race course or private training session) then fine but when you are sharing space with other users, the majority of whom have much less confidence and experience, then that is simply not good enough. If someone is going to ski at above average speed then they bloody well should ski responsibly, in control and with respect for other peoples personal space - regardless of age.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Elston, of course... Not sure what point you are arguing though? when we train at hemel it is in a closed environment. Occasionally we use the lesson slope and beginners always have right of way and the kids are respectful of them. Is it children in race gear free skiing showing poor slope etiquette when free skiing ?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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AndAnotherThing.., who was your Trainer?
| AndAnotherThing.. wrote: |
| rob@rar, Sean Langmuir |
Bit random but.
Do ya reckon he's related to Eric Langmuir, who wrote the MLTB & BMC handbook Mountaincraft and Leadership c1969
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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As you know I use/misuse (depending on your opinion  ) Hemel slope quite a lot.
When the junior Race Clubs turn up for practice, usually having 1/3rd of the slope netted off: the atmosphere of the whole place gets "jazzed up". It becomes like a hive. At times completely mental. The lift queues becomes like dinner queue at St Trinians. I agree that as a self confessed speed freak I have found it amusing to watch beginners getting freaked out & falling over due to a hoard of Lycra clad highly skilled pint size Exocets buzzing around them.
It's really not the kids who are in danger most of the time.
That's when I retreat to the cafe & look forward to the bumps n ruts they leave when the squishy gate things are gone.
Slope share between disciplines is a tricky act to juggle IME.
Thing is at times I too have thought the kids need policing a bit more at the bottom of the slope. But it's usually only the boisterous behaviour that's noticed not the polite disciplined behaviour.
But I've been that beginner amongst the hoard and also been a Youth Worker managing groups of kids so appreciate both points of view
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Haggis trap Thanks for that
Well there ya go!
Eric Langmuir, what a Dude!
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| franzClammer wrote: |
Eric Langmuir, what a Dude!
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Yeah, his son isn't too bad in the dude stakes either.
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| Is it children in race gear free skiing showing poor slope etiquette when free skiing ? |
I saw a pretty big collision on Sunday caused by someone "drilling" who wasn't aware of what was going on in front of them and another near miss when someone was skiing on one ski when it was inappropriate to do so. Neither of which were ski racers as far as I am aware but I must admit that all this wound me up.
As far as ski racing goes, I was thinking back to when I was doing my basi 1 at hemel and there was an atomic race camp on. Lots of kids (with understandably lots of enthusiasm) and usually going really fast. I am certainly not saying that this is always the case and it's not just kids and its definitely not just ski racers but carving in and out of traffic isn't cool.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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well if general slope users outside of a club environment are skiing dangerously not sure what that has to do with the Alpine L1 coach course training... Safety is covered along with structure of training sessions in a similar way to the Alpine instructor strand.
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Interesting that it seems (from what's said here - I could have got the wrong end of the stick) that "coach" seems to be short for "race coach". Would be interested to hear from those who've done the course if that's the case.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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kieranm, yes, that's right.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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kieranm, I'm not sure what the official BASI policy is but my impression is that 'Coaching' in BASI is reserved or only applicable to competition racers. However given that their role is mostly about training ski instructors who work with clients in resort for a limited period this isn't surprising.
This is different to SnowSport England who's Instructor\Coach training program has always been a 'Coaching scheme' with a qualification pathway that splits to allow Coaches to either specialise in coaching recreational skiers or racers. It was interesting last week to compare and contrast the two.
Elston, My comments regarding Race Club perhaps gave the wrong impression. It's as much about keeping the kids moving and avoiding drawn out technical discussions as it is challenging them with difficult (and perhaps unhelpful) drills.
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BASI have already dropped the L2 alpine coaching course from the L3 requirements; I agree with skimottaret, that it would be a shame to drop L1 too.
I think there's a lot in this course (and in the L1 adaptive) that can help you with your general teaching, especially with youngsters.
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You know it makes sense.
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| bobski62 wrote: |
| I think there's a lot in this course (and in the L1 adaptive) that can help you with your general teaching, |
Agreed, on both counts. The coach courses I've done have had a big influence on my approach to teaching, and the adaptive course had some useful stuff which I've occasionally used even though I've not done much adaptive teaching.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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bobski62, it seemed odd to me that you had to do 2 coaching courses at L3 and none at L4. When they changed it to the current L1 coach for ISIA and L2 for ISTD that makes loads of sense to me..
The L2 coach has gate setting and GS racing as part of it so would be very helpful as Eurotest preparation as well as club coaching. I will look into this further to see if it is just a rumour or if there is some substance to it...
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Poster: A snowHead
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It is the ISIA that require a "coaching course" as part of the BASI L3.
You could do an alpine, freestyle, snowboard or nordic coaching course (via either BASI OR snowsport Scotland/England) which will meet this requirement.
So the word "coach" doesn't necessarily just mean just alpine racing.
http://www.snowsportscotland.org/become-a-coach
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Wed 9-10-13 16:10; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Haggis_Trap, Do they ? I dont think the ISIA have any demands for a coaching course but there are minimums on the number of hours of training for the stamp. You can definitely do the freestyle coach for ISIA so your right in that instance that any UKCP course will satisfy BASI L3..
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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^ RE : ISIA.
That is what i was told when I did the course from someone who should know those things
Though it might just be BASI meeting the basic requirement, and then some more... (as they do with 2nd discipline)
From the ISIA web site.
"The candidate will understand the teaching and relevant factors for instruct-
tion and training, and be able to apply and implement them in theory and
practice. "
http://www.isiaski.org/download/rules/Minimumstandard_en.pdf
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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ISIA doesn't specify particular courses afaik, each training body is inspected and then granted approval by ISIA to grant the stamp. BASI was inspected a couple years ago and had to change the written second language module to a verbal test, before the inspection BASI always said that they had so many required courses at ISIA level due to the ISIA minimum hours rules.
Ever wonder why the L3 has been reduced by 11 days? The 6 day L2 coach and the ISIA tech has gone to 5 days,yet BASI can still issue the Stamp 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Haggis_Trap, just remembered this http://www.isiaski.org/download/20111010_Budapest_MS_assessment_en.pdf
which shows the BASI Stamp assessment, look at page two and it states 320 hours of training. Doesn't mention anything about coaching courses but has the mountain safety, 2nd language etc as per the min standards.
AndAnotherThing.., THinking about it I seem to recall that someone told me that ISIA will accept self learning and that was enough to get the hours reqd and drop the other courses. This was due to pressure from Canada who dont offer training courses as per basi but just shorter formal assessments and their instructors get training through ski schools
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AndAnotherThing.., interesting that you mention the differences between SSE and BASI in their coaching programmes; I thought that the UKCP meant they were both now delivering the same syllabus.
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kieranm, Yep. I did my SSE training before the new arrangement, which I'm pretty sure only covers the covers the 'Race' side of their program.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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SSE and BASI courses for UKCP L1 are identical, an SSE was being run by a BASI trainer last week at hemel..
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FAQ
