 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi Folks
A very angry chocks has just received a cancellation notice for his Monarch Flight from Grenoble to Leeds. On checking they have now suspended this service for the season. I am only entitled to a refund (they have had my money for 4 months) and now clearly have to book flights from somewhere else to fulfil my obligations and lets face it for Feb and Mar the only way for prices is likely to be up.
The Monarch scheduled programme was heavily promoted to skiers in the Autumn through a variety of media. I can only assume that it has not gone too well and they are cutting their losses. I can no longer trust Monarch and I respectfully suggest that Snowheads exercise caution before booking for this season or next.
I say this with a heavy heart as many of my ex colleagues work for this company.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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B@stards. Have you seen the other post about Jet2, I think they fly that route?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Just what you need to hear. Good luck in your search for alternative flights. I'm going with them in a couple of weeks to Friedrichshafen, but that is with Inghams.
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chocksaway, Hmm, a bit of a poor show. As you say, Monarch quite heavily advertised their scheduled programme to skiers this season, even getting Chemmy Alcott as "brand ambassador" for its new ski routes.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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& sponsoring the on slope bar at Hemel. Lesson to be learned - live near the big smoke if you want cast iron flights 
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chocksaway,  that's bad. Can imagine you are cross.
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You are not only entitled to a refund.
Under EU261/2004 you have the choice of;
Where your flight is cancelled, you are entitled to a choice of:
Refund of the cost of your ticket within 7 days or
Re-routing to your final destination at the earliest opportunity or
Re-routing at a later date at your convenience, subject to availability of seats
This is for you to decide NOT Monarch although if you have already accepted the refund it is too late.
The re-routing can be by a different airline.
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e17phil, Interesting - this is what I was offered (with links and names removed ):
We would like to offer you one of the following in accordance with our obligations under EC Regulation 261/2004. Please follow the instructions on this email at your earliest convenience to confirm which option you would like to choose.
Option 1
To request a full or partial refund please click on the refund link below:
Option 2 - Flight Credit
You are able to convert the cost of your original flights to a credit. The flight credit is valid for a period of 12 months and can be used towards the purchase of another Monarch Scheduled flight. Please click on the link below.
Option 3 - An Alternative Flight or destination
You may change your flight or destination free of charge to the nearest alternative scheduled flight to your original date of travel.
As they have cancelled the complete programme and the next nearest destination is 100's of miles away....
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| e17phil wrote: |
Where your flight is cancelled, you are entitled to a choice of:
Refund of the cost of your ticket within 7 days or
Re-routing to your final destination at the earliest opportunity or
Re-routing at a later date at your convenience, subject to availability of seats
This is for you to decide NOT Monarch although if you have already accepted the refund it is too late.
The re-routing can be by a different airline. |
How does that work then - if investigating the different airline option. Can you just say to them, "BA (for example) fly the route I was going to fly on that day, I want to be on it and you have to stump up"? Or do you have to take a route that they offer to you - which as chocksaway says, could be at an airport 100s of miles away, so guaranteeing you are going to turn it down?
chocksaway - is there any reason why anyone would take Option 2 as opposed to Option 1? as it looks on the face of it that you are being offered the same value, but just with the restriction that it has to be spent with them within 12 months, which is clearly the last thing you fancy at present. Was there any incentive - e.g. credit for double the amount you paid? Don't know whether they still do it, but I've been on overbooked airlines in the USA where they've offered two free tickets anywhere in their network to anyone who'd volunteer to get off the plane and fly the following morning. BTW you probably know it, but Lyon and Chambery airports are pretty close to Grenoble if they're of any use.
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GrahamN, Same amount I believe - if they are not flying to the Alps from Leeds then not interested!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Jet2 fly that route. Check the dates and availability, might actually save you money. Prices look fairly rock bottom at £39 one way on various dates.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Basically it is their obligation under EU law to re-route you. It doesn't matter if it is not with them (indeed it is part of the reason the legislation exists).
Guidance is here http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?pageid=12765
Also the Flight Mole website is a good resource http://www.flightmole.com/ You will find similar cases in their forums.
I'd find the flight you want and then give them a call and tell them you want them to re-route you on it.
In practical terms it only becomes an issue if the flight is more expensive. Also you may meet some resistance from Monarch, in which case put it in writing that you are going to book the flight you want and expect reimbursement. By booking early you are minimising the cost to Monarch.
It will be interesting to see what Monarch say. If you have a look at the Flight Mole forum you will see that airlines will often resist or even deny that they have to re-route you.
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I have just had a look on their website and they are still advertising Leeds - Grenoble flights until the end of January. (Which I am sure you will know Chocks)
They are already advertising prices on the route for February 2014. Anyone willing to risk it 
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You know it makes sense.
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I'm flying Leeds to Grenoble with Monarch on 19th Jan (return on 26th) and haven't received a cancellation notice. I will definably be keeping an eye on my emails until then!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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chocksaway, sorry to hear that, I'd be cross too. But +1 for e17phil's suggestions and for the Flightmole forum, we've had two successful claims for statutory compensation for delays now which both airlines tried to worm their way out. Good luck!
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Poster: A snowHead
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Phew, glad that I took the option of Jet2 both ways and not the return leg with Monarch. I knew paying the £10 extra overall (for 2kg extra baggage) was a sign from the Gods....
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Yes I had a flight cancelled by Monarch also. It looks like the proposed daily service from Birmingham to Munich has been considerably reduced. They offered me a different date and time for my return flight (2 days earlier) but I preferred to cancel and rebook with Lufthansa. Lesson learned.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Unfortunately I am not surprised by this our flight Manchester to Friedrichshafen on 22 December was less than half full and the same on the return journey. Its a real shame they are not getting the numbers.
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Flew Birmingham to Grenoble with Monarch on 15 Dec, return 22 Dec, really good price, got a discount code and free ski carriage. Plane was almost full and was a pleasant flight so we were hoping they would succeed.
Now, reading this thread, reminds me of our good deal with BMI baby last year. And look what happened to them .
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Really bad news. OTOH, if Monarch has detected that the route won't work for this season (maybe because of the recession) continuing to run the flights - and others like it - might really damage their business.
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achilles, I understand that entirely - but what of their reputation - as Tigski points out they are selling tickets on the same route next year - can the good folk of Yorkshire trust them not to cancel next year........ or indeed a number of other routes throughout the year
Some of the protection offered to customers of airlines by the EU is great - but their lack of obligation when they cancel a service this far out is a major failing for customer protection -
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chocksaway, Sorry to hear that, but I have to say Jet2 dont get my business anymore, used to fly Jet 2 but now far too expensive with usual bolt-ons and poor flight times, plus now this from Monarch. I fly Lufthansa, and Swiss for all the reasons you'd expect from them; ie reliability, more day/ time options, price and free ski carriage. OK a journey to Manchester or Brum but hardly a deal breaker. I saw all the Monarch adverts late last year and thought that can't work can it? Hope you get sorted, Yorkshire dserves better, I'd support LBA again if they'd wake up and get a proper EJ/ Jet2 ski service sorted, but for now its not an option, pretty sad.
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| Quote: |
Some of the protection offered to customers of airlines by the EU is great - but their lack of obligation when they cancel a service this far out is a major failing for customer protection
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Well they do have an obligation in law, it's just that they aren't exactly very up front about it.
Having to re-route you means that the airline carries financial risk for cancelling flights as opposed to simply putting all the financial risk onto the passenger.
If they didn't have obligations under this EU law airlines could simply announce flights, see if there was any demand and if there wasn't cancel and leave passengers in the lurch. As it stands they have to re-route from A to B even if they no longer operate the flight on that route.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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MarkyMark29 - I just booked with Jet2 for LBA > GNB return and for the two of us with booked seats, a board bag and 22kg luggage each it came in at £291... extortionate I thought. Thankfully there's a code to get free ski carraige so that knocked off £50.... a bot more palatable.
Annoys me that baggage incurs charges in airlines these days... It's as if using a plane is the sole territory of people who take their skivvies in their pockets!
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Specialman, Yep, thats why I go with scheduled carriers, usually £100-125pp incl skis to MUC or ZHR.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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BMIbaby cancelled me two years ago when I'd booked MAN > GNB ... and look what happened to them!
I couldn't get a flight anywhere near the price I had originally paid. I ended up going by Eurostar/TGV. Top tip if you're travelling during French half term - don't bother with the Eurostar website - you'll never be able to log on. I called Eurostar direct and ended up travelling 1st class at a price less than standard! None of this available on the web.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Specialman wrote: |
MarkyMark29 - I just booked with Jet2 for LBA > GNB return and for the two of us with booked seats, a board bag and 22kg luggage each it came in at £291... extortionate I thought. Thankfully there's a code to get free ski carraige so that knocked off £50.... a bot more palatable.
Annoys me that baggage incurs charges in airlines these days... It's as if using a plane is the sole territory of people who take their skivvies in their pockets! |
That's because the airlines subcontract their baggage handling to Menzies and the like and the handlers get paid per bag. No bags = no cost.
You are paying for the services you are using and nothing more. I am 100% in favour of that.
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| Specialman wrote: |
| MarkyMark29 - I just booked with Jet2 for LBA > GNB return and for the two of us with booked seats, a board bag and 22kg luggage each it came in at £291... extortionate I thought. |
Are you being ironic? Even without the discount £140 per head for a return flight to France? How much d'you think is reasonable? Flying is unbelievably cheap nowadays compared to how it used to be - I remember getting a £99 return bucket shop seat from Gatwick to Mallorca and thinking that was a bargain. That was in 1983!
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You know it makes sense.
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Just received a marketing e mail from Monarch offering me 'guaranteed discounts' - I'd rather have a guaranteed flight!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| andy from embsay wrote: |
| Are you being ironic? |
No
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Poster: A snowHead
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Specialman if you are quoting £291 for two people I think that is actually pretty  good for a flight including board bag and luggage.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| kat.ryb wrote: |
| Specialman if you are quoting £291 for two people I think that is actually pretty good for a flight including board bag and luggage. |
Maybe you're right. Maybe I'm just tight. That almost sounds like a poem...
We'll see if it's good value once I've done both journeys and me, the missus and out luggage (and sanity) are intact
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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As a matter of interest how much do you think is about right to fly you and your luggage 1500 miles and back (when there's about £20/30 of taxes and fees to pay whoever you fly with)? Genuinely interested - flying to ski holidays i reckon i've done well if i pay anything under £150, particularly as i always try to fly from Leeds where there's less competition.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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andy from embsay, And EZY aside that competition is on weekend flights
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| andy from embsay wrote: |
| As a matter of interest how much do you think is about right to fly you and your luggage 1500 miles and back (when there's about £20/30 of taxes and fees to pay whoever you fly with)? Genuinely interested - flying to ski holidays i reckon i've done well if i pay anything under £150, particularly as i always try to fly from Leeds where there's less competition. |
Andy from embsay, a loaded question if ever I saw one. I'll indulge you though...
It's not solely about how much I think the flight is worth in miles travelled etc - like I said in my previous post, maybe I'm just being tight - but everyone has different levels of spending, especially when factoring in flights, transfers, accommodation, lift passes and the rest.
My initial train of thought when booking was that £100pp would sort it.... Wishful thinking maybe, but that was what I was budgeting for initially. In the end I've got closer to that thanks to a voucher code. I'm happy with that. Next week will tell whether Jet2 provides a service that meets or exceeds my level of spending...
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Sat 12-01-13 22:04; edited 1 time in total
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It's not about being tight or not Specialman, i'm just interested in your expectations - i fly from leeds whenever possible, and tend to book as early as possible to get it cheap. I assume anything under £150 and including bags is pretty good. Bags are what, £20-30 return? J2 charge £12 to check a bag in as well as the bag. So you're looking at £50-60 each way to get under £150 a head - to get £100 a head you're talking £35-40 each way.
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| andy from embsay wrote: |
| It's not about being tight or not Specialman, i'm just interested in your expectations - i fly from leeds whenever possible, and tend to book as early as possible to get it cheap. I assume anything under £150 and including bags is pretty good. Bags are what, £20-30 return? J2 charge £12 to check a bag in as well as the bag. So you're looking at £50-60 each way to get under £150 a head - to get £100 a head you're talking £35-40 each way. |
The key thing for me is that it's been a long time since I've sorted my own flights....after travelling via TO packages (where the costs are hidden in one lump sum) for the past few years so I'm obviously a bit detached from the actual reality of self-booked travel - the last time I booked a flight to the Alps was about five years ago when we went Gatwick > GVA for £50. That was probably an absolute one-off in terms of cheap air fares looking back on it, plus it was at the start of December so prices were probably rock-bottom.
Your breakdown is food-for-thought definitely and I suppose it highlights the fine line between the route being a business success and a failure, as is why this thread was created...
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And today I received an e mail offering me a discount on a meal on my (cancelled) flight if I paid in advance! Muppets
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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