Starting off-piste – when and how?

A snowHead

Hi all, I’ve been starting to think a bit more about this whole off-piste thing…

I was thinking initially it might be a nice goal for the end of the season, but now I’ve booked a week in Verbier over New Year with some friends, and after reading through some threads here, it seems Verbier is better off-piste than on.

So, my questions are:
- What level should your skiing be at before you start considering off-piste?
- What’s the best way to start?!

I was thinking originally end of this season, so I have all have lots more time to work on my basic technique. Currently I’m comfortably skiing parallel on anything up to easy blacks, though I struggle with moguls. I can carve, though have to concentrate on it – my immediate goal is to get much more comfortable with that as well as moguls. I’m not the most confident skier, I tend to play it safe – when I finally first ventured on to reds I didn’t have many issues at all, as it was well past the point I probably should have first tried them Smile

I have played about in some deeper and choppier stuff off the sides of pistes, but not much. I’ve got 18days experience in total, spread across 1 week and lots of odd days and weekends. At the start of last season I could barely manage a green, so am actually quite proud of what I can do now (or could, I might have forgotten it all when I put skis on again for the first time this season NehNeh

)

I’m going on the PSB, and have booked into group lessons for general improvement, as well as the mogul sessions. Should I look at one of the off-piste beginner sessions there?

I’ll also be doing a couple of days over a weekend between the PSB and Verbier trip, and could book some private lessons then – not sure what resorts yet, depends on the snow, but one of the French resorts that local buses run to.

I don’t have any (off-piste) kit at all, but I’ve had a look, and can easily hire in most resorts to start with.

So, is it something I could be thinking about now? Or should I just keep working on my basic technique and stick with my original plan of much further into the season? I’m sure there are more than enough pistes in Verbier to keep me entertained, and the likelihood of hangovers most days is also high…

A snowHead

You can start it at any level - it doesn't have to be difficult, hard or scary. Sounds like you should be fine anyway though.

I think most people (myself included) will have jsut 'gone and done it.' You won't find many people recommending that though - I know (now) that I put myself in some sketchy situations, as I had no real knowledge of what I was doing (avalanche safety wise). The safest (and probably best if you can afford it) way is to book a lesson, or a guide. Otherwise, go find some avi protected marked routes, read up a bit on avi stuff, ask in resort for recommendations for safe areas, and make your own judgements over whether you want to just 'go and explore' or not.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Go off piste as early as you like - some people do it almost from the start (you should be fine now. Go for it). How easy or difficult it is depends on the snow quality. Light powder is much easier than the wetter stuff or old settled snow. Basically the technique is no different but deep snow won't tolerate a skidded turn so well. (Except for light powder, which is much more forgiving, deep snow won't let the ski skid sideways). You just have to learn how it feels and get the confidence to go for it and ski strong turns. The common failing is that nervousness makes people ski tentatively, whereas you have to do things more strongly in deep snow. Keep your weight forward (for some reason some people think they should lean back) and it gets easier if you can manage to link turns.
If you do lessons they should supply the safety equipment - though ask in advance. Even with kit and easy slopes don't go far off piste on your own.
Much of Verbier's off piste is steep but there is also gentle stuff which you could use. Good to have had a lesson or two before that, though, if you can. It will be much easier though (and give you confidence) if there is some light powder around to make your first turns in.

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fixx, Like clarky999, says theres no best time, most of us just get out there and give it a go, but safety is the biggest issue not merely ability and you'll quickly get to grips with the terrain and technique but will need some guiding input into safe areas to ski etc, terrian, aspect etc. One thing I would suggest if you are going to Verbier is to just get into the slack, ie the areas between the pistes where there's plenty of powder and its on the whole safe and well protected. If you are happy with these there are then itinery runs like Tortin, Chasseur, Vallon D'Arby etc which are patrolled but quite extreme, that'll keep you occupied for the week I reckon and you'll start to get a feel for it and it will come naturally. Fitness is a key aspect though, it tires you 3-4 x quicker than on-piste skiing IME, to such a point that you'll get much more out of it if you have strong core and legs. Its very unforgiving and you will be stripped bare with regards to ability and feeling exposed and it is hard work if you fall over.....and you will, I do anyway! So one tip - I struggled last season, took a decision to lose weight and get fit for next season, I've lost lotss of weight and am almost ready, 4x a week at gym classes now. You'll get so much more out of it if you spend the time between now and going working on cv and core strength/ leg work.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

^ Cautionary note.

The likes of Tortin at Verbier, although easy to get to and secured from avalanches within the markers, is

1. Pretty steep at the start
2. Pretty steep at the finish
3. Can be rough as f... in the middle
4. Is longer than all but the very longest groomed runs.
5. Would break most 3 week skiers that I know.

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Thanks all, that’s massively reassuring! And very exciting Smile

I’ll freely admit my biggest problem is confidence, but I was starting to get a bit more bullish by the end of last season (started doing some very hideous mogulled runs as I thought they would force me to improve – it kind of worked!). And I do now (mostly!) ski properly forward after lots of instruction, and yelling from friends – I hate the feeling now when I get in the back-seat, it feels so unstable and uncomfortable.

I’ll get in touch with TallTone re. the PSB clinics – that’ll be my first time back on skis, unless we get an early dump in the city and I can sneak into the local park…!

I’m quite happy to pay for lessons/guides (though Verbier is expensive!) as I had some great experiences and really fast progression last season with private lessons. Annoyingly my favourite instructor is up in the 3 Vallees, but I’m sure there are other great ones out there. I’ve been saving money through the summer to support my expensive winter addiction Smile

Markymark29, great point about fitness – after some issues last season I’m trying to improve my leg strength and general cardio fitness, but hadn’t thought so much about core for some reason – I’ll up that aspect of my workouts (urgh). I’m very lucky in that I can easily ski most weekends, and by the end of last season I was looking to ski hard both days, but found my fitness was letting me down – I’m determined that will change this season. Especially if I’m going to start going off-piste!

After all it is free

moffatross, Chattonmill, noted! Shocked

I'll take a very hard look at that one before I go down...

I like all the tips and advice you get here Very Happy

fixx, Trouble is that you get tempted to go and have a look, it's flat just until the point it is not, then there is the whole 'it's a bit of a hike to get back to the top so I'll just get on with it'

Dont be put off, just amke sure you are fresh and feeling confident when you do it.

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Yes, generally good advice from Markymark29, though like everything it gets less tiring as you your technique improves.
Staying out of avalanche danger is the most important thing, but it is worth hiring the kit and wearing it. Ask people (especially instructors if you have lessons) about safer slack country (threat from above may be relevant for example) and don't do it if avalanche risk is high, but in general gentle slopes don't avalanche themselves (though there can suddenly be a small steeper undulation that wasn't apparent from a distance - even tiny slides can be dangerous). Plus always go with someone else - if you get into trouble you can't rely on passers by to notice you- and there is no point in having the kit if there isn't someone else with the kit to find you. And find out how to use it, obviously. The more you practice the better.
Interestingly I gather that many places in North America they won't hire out avalanche transceivers since they might be considered to be encouraging people to go out of bounds without adequate experience.

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The best way really to start is to find Pistes with areas of unpisted in between or off to the side, start going down these staying within sight of the piste and playing around with technique.
Do a stretch, stop on a rise with good downhill visibility, check out your next plan of attack.
There is quite often a good reason why patches are not pisted!

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fixx: I would advise finding the gentlest off piste that you can to start with and then just stick at it.

Warning no. 1: It will be a long job that can be very frustrating and there will be times when it feels like nothing's going right and you feel like packing it in for ever - but the times when it finally clicks and you go from leaving a set of shakey, jagged 'Zs' to perfect 'Ss' in the powder are fantastic! But before that you'll still have fun - even if that involves being able to do next to nothing in waist deep powder and rolling down a steeper pitch head first! At least it's (nearly) always a soft landing Very Happy

!

Warning no. 2: Next stop: powder addiction! No matter how many fresh tracks you ski...it's never enough! It's an itch that just can't be scratched... Very Happy

You know it makes sense.

moffatross, Chattonmill, Agreed re Tortin, it is great though eh? I can just go up and down that all day, so many variations, especially when entered from Mt Gele, now thats a run! Toofy Grin

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Markymark29, That is the joy of it, no descent is the same, although I think the OP will find plenty to play on in Verbier!

A snowHead

All Verbier from same holiday.

Horizon skiing on early Scott Mission skis

me. (Not sure who took some of these. Some probably Horizon)

A snowHead

Might be worth considering hiring All Mountain skis (I hired my first Scott Missions in Verbier - worth considering them). It does make the off-piste easier.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Offpiste is only for supreme athletes like me.

Normos should stay on the piste.

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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Mr Piehole, Very Happy

Harder to walk back off-piste, though.

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I have just found a video....of the very day I spoke about.
It shows the track down, the top, and lots of huffing and puffing and I go down gracelessly.
I seem to remember it was Icy and flat light, the bumps don't really show in the video but it will give you an idea.
Bear in mind it was 2006 so things may have changed since....!
Ok Just had a look at it......I was unfit too!

http://youtube.com/v/mpxlDyZtsjM

fixx, I'd give a definite thumbs up for the off-piste lessons at PSB...I did their EoSB equivalent a couple of years back - they were great and sound like just what you're after.

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Verbier off-piste: tons of it and very accessible too, though not necessarily easy and some is hard. not necessarily powdery (although there are stashes almost always to be found off the back of Mont Fort and at Stairway to Heaven I think at this stage it might be a bit difficult for you), so you need to be able to negotiate moguls and what they call "difficult snow conditions", i.e. do jump turns. Do not start with itineraries. There are no exits and no groomers nearby, so you will have to go all the way once you there and they are quite long, with Tortin being the shortest at 700 m vertical.

There are plenty areas on Verbier side between pistes and it's quite possible to ski from the top of Attelas bypassing the main run and not touching the piste almost till Carrefour and still be within reasonable reach of groomers if you get tired. But as it's South-facing snow can be extremely variable and unless you ski soon after the snowfall it may feel like you are skiing on a sand paper. For a taster DIY I would recommend going to Savoleyres area and ski off the North side under 6-man chair. snow is quite good there, easy entry and it's very short, you are close to groomers for reassurance. see how you fare there and get a lesson. If it's a group of you interested in the same thing you can share a private for a half-day or even the whole day. Instructor will be able to assess your technique and show you what you need to work on for efficient off-piste skiing, he'll also take you to the areas that you will be able to ski on your own for practice. You can ask for Remy at Altitude ski school. He's Swiss in his 50s (I guess) who skied all his life. Him and his wife are probably their most experienced instructors with the highest qualifications, having tought for a number of years in Vail resorts as well as in Verbier, teaching telemark, ski or snowboard. Tell him your goal and he'll work with you.

Good place to rent skis in geneva is Penseyres sport on rue de Neuchatel. It's more like a warehouse than a store and guys know their skis. Be honest with them about your ability and what and where you want to ski. You can get new skis and if you decide to buy them at the end of the season they will give them to you at a discount.

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I don't call moguls off-piste - you can do those anywhere. Itineraries are pistes - though often you will find powder turns there - especially at the edges.
Also I wouldn't suggest jump turns in difficult snow!!! A good strong carve is much better. (But in any case that is not the sort of thing to start with - it will just put you off).
Unless there has been really bad conditions a guide should find you something like powder turns long after the last snowfall.

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snowball, We weren't sugesting that Tortin was off piste! Just mentioning what is avaiable in Verbier.

Chattonmill, no, I understood that. I was more commenting on never summer's first paragraph.

You know it makes sense.

I wouldn't call Gentianes/Chaussure, Mont-Gele or Vallon d'Arby itineraries a "piste". They are definitely more off-piste than areas between runs. They are not patrolled and not controlled for avalanches, the only "control" is that when the risk is too high they get shut. The only semblance to pistes is that they are marked. Backside of Mont-Gele gives you feeling of being in the middle of nowhere and so does Vallon d'Arby. Actually marked back side of Mont-Gele seems wilder, at least tthe front side even being the "proper" off-piste is visible from resort runs should something happen. Powder turns there can be found after snowfall but of course being easier accessed they get tracked out fairly quickly and then they turn into vast mogul fields. Moguls are difficult to avoid in off-piste, you are likely to encounter them most of the time you venture off-piste though of course you don't have to be a zipper-line skier for it. A guide will find powder turns long after the last snowfall, that's true, but I doubt he'll find powder turns for a 3-week skier as he'll need to get there in one piece first and very often terrain and snow conditions won't allow for a "good strong carve". Jump turn will get you out of many difficult sitiations.
Oh, yes, another nice and gentle off-piste in Savoleyres area is by Croix de Coeur down to Taillay chair. But it also gets bumped up.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

I ski almost entirely off piste and almost never ski bumps, but I must admit I ski mostly with guides (6 out of 8 days usually) and tend to stay far from the pistes (and I'm not a beginner - I take your point about access).

A snowHead

Chattonmill, Much nicer place to ski than Tortin is at the farthest end of the traverse. Just keep going till the end and go over the rocks. Nice decent and you avoid the long and boring cat track to the gondola. Or you can also access it by starting skiing down Tortin and then traversing to the skiesr right about 1/3 way down and going over rocks and traversing a bit more to the right before decending. No moguls there.

A snowHead

Funnily enough I don't mind moguls, just not as a warm up run on the first day!

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Me neither. Moguls is powder only pushed into mounds and hardened:) But I dislike the cat track at the bottom of Tortin.

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fixx, jump on it. Just find someone who knows what they are doing and go for it, easiest way is probably with an instructor. I'd stick to skis that you are used to though otherwise you'll be learning how to ski the new skis whilst at the same time trying to learn how to ski new terrain.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

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fixx, great idea to try off-piste, you'll love it and never look back.

I totally agree with the suggestions of taking lessons (probably better than getting a guide in the first instance). It will make your transition much easier and also keep you safe. Just to sound a note of caution, I'd advise against you going off-piste without either an instructor or guide (or experienced companions) until you know safe travel techniques in avalanche terrain. Remember that most avalanche deaths occur within a few metres of a pisted slope and unless you're aware it's easy to go from safe terrain to risky terrain without realising it- even a slight convexity or change in slope aspect can make a difference. And of course you must have the kit and know how to use it, but much better not to have to use it!

If you go with lessons, give these guys a look: http://www.powder-extreme.com/ Bella Seel comes highly recommended, and she'll knit you a hat too!

Have fun!

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fixx: As promised, a few of my favourite powder pics to hopefully whet your appetite for a spot of off piste Smile

....

Lake Louise:

Flachau:

Tignes:

Silvretta Ski Tour:

Tignes:

After all it is free

mountainaddict, nice!

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Fifespud,

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Starting off-piste – when and how?

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