 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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we first went skiing with our little one when he was 3 months old. we went with friends (who didn't have children) I had resigned myself to not getting in too much skiing and in the end didn't do any, but that's probably because i couldn't part with my little one and put him in a creche. Because of that we didn't look into childcare much and went self catering. not sure if this helps you at all because obviously you want to know about childcare. from what i've found the catered chalets look good with companies like erna low having been recommended to us. mind you saying that we'll probably go self catering again, and ski on our own. la rosiere always comes up, and i've found grindelwald or wengen to be good resorts. one of the austrian resorts is supossed to be great with children, is it obertauern? good luck in your search and don't let anyone put you off a skiing holiday with little ones. If anything it's just great to take them out there and see them in the snow!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Its probably not particularly relevant advice, but for what its worth, we are taking our 6 month old and going to live in Verbier for the ski season. There is a nursery there that takes babies from 6 months (a few resorts we looked at going to only had nurseries for 12 months or 18 months and up). We both plan on doing a fair bit of skiing, but we will probably only ski together and use the nursery 2 or 3 times a week and we also have grandmothers visiting for 5 weeks of the time we are out there.
If you get on well with any grandparents it might be worth taking an extra room in the hotel and then you have a babysitter on tap (assuming they are happy with the arrangements).
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adance, Thanks for this - and I hope you are getting something constructive out of the other thread and not just more confused or wound up!!
I have actually been giving some real thought to the self catering line. Other than the flexibility it would give us with Fredster - I have to be a bit careful about what I eat so this would help me too.
I don't really think the chalet route would suit us - there wouldn't be enough of us to fill one and we'd feel to awkward with the baby - and to be honest a mixed group chalet is close to my idea of hell - I don't want to be subjected to some pompous fool's accounts of bravery etc etc over every meal.
Hotels are what we usually do but I guess generally speaking there wouldn't be the flexibility and perhaps you'd feel again uncomfortable in this scenario.
So maybe I'm getting somewhere now - I need to find out more about self catering in Saalbach and Soll and to look into independent childcare!?!
Do you know if any of the tour ops who have good childcare also deal with self catering??
aseeto, Bringing another family member like a grandmother is something we are looking into as well ......
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Adam Holt, nice post.
One of the options I suggested to adance was Scheffau with Esprit. When I looked at this I also came across this company http://www.minster-alpine.co.uk who do self catering cabins in Scheffau. Close to Soll and the Scheffau nursery has been recommended, although I haven't checked if they will care for children so young.
Good luck.
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Adam Holt,
I have always gone independantly since having children so can give no recommendations on tour operators.
We have used Grannies and babysitter/childminders booked through the resort.
One thing I would recommend strongly is that wherever you end up staying you get accomodation close to the lifts/ slopes, This facilitates later starts , meeting up etc. It is a long time since I went to Soll but when I went the accommodation was quite a distance from the slopes and if it is a poor snow year you may have to travel further still.
The thing to watch out is that this accommodation often books out quickly and is difficult to get last minute.
With Grannies the ability to wheel a pram along pavements is useful and so is the ability to meet up somewhere for lunch. Also having somewhere that is in a sunny location in March is much nicer than in the bottom of a steep sided valley in January.
Apart from the pram wheeling aspect a couple of resorts that have worked are Lech and Davos, neither particularly cheap but greatly enjoyed by Grannies.
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There's no easy answer to this, is there? One or more of your criteria likely to be unmet, whatever you choose and holidays will never be the same again. In many ways the ideal thing for you would be to go with another couple with a baby of similar age and a similar attitude to childcare (i.e dads willing to do their fair share). This means you can have complete confidence in the childcare on offer, and have some built in company. As others have commented it can be difficult to persuade yourself to leave very young babies in a "creche" of unknown quality, especially as a baby's daily routines are often quite changeable around 5 months. Obviously you'll have thought about the scope for grandparents or other relatives too. If none of these options is workable, and if your wife will not ski on her own, then a self-catering apartment with just the three of you would be a bit lonely and limiting, especially for your wife. The advantages of a chalet company’s ski guiding facilities are worth considering - and some chalets have good childcare arrangements. Evenings are also easier, with baby asleep (hopefully …) close by, rather than in a hotel bedroom well out of earshot and needing a long trek to check up every quarter of an hour.
I know you said you don't fancy a chalet. But if you choose carefully, focus on companies who specialise in families with young children and avoid the Hooray Henry or Lager Lout tendencies you might be pleasantly surprised at how much the other guests can add to your enjoyment of a holiday. They will probably be people just like you! Finally - go now, don't be put off, because holidays with Fred (let alone with younger sibling of Fred as well) are just going to get steadily more difficult and expensive for years to come. Long journeys, airport delays, lengthy transfers, are all easy with small babies, especially if they are breastfed, but much more problematical with toddlers.
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The biggest problem skiing with a baby is the amount of extra luggage you need to take with you - a fact which most charter based operations with limited luggage allowance don't cater for. In the early days of skiing with our little one we either used scheduled flights, or drove out to the Alps (easier than you'd think as they tend to sleep a lot of the time).
One option which is good from a baby-friendly point of view, and has the advantage of being in one of the more accessible by car (or short transfer from Geneva - long transfers with a group of strangers being another possible stumbling point) is:
http://www.360sunandski.com/
you pay only for food for the little one - or free if you provide your own - and they also provide a lot of the baby kit you won't want to be lugging around with you.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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another thought .... one of the main (if not the main) reason we've skied in France since we've had kids is that the French creches tend to cater for children from 6 months old. I've found that most Austrian (and Swiss/Italian for that matter) resorts don't accept children until they are much older, typically 3, usually with the stipulation that they are out of nappies. For this reason I think you'll have much more choice if French resorts were to be (re)considered.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Hey all, reading this topic and the one that spawned it prompted me tto join up... Adam Holt, my wife is currently expecting and with our baby due in January, we figured that we'd have to miss out in season 05/06. Luckily for me, my wife is a sweetheart and has agreed for me to head out on my usual long weekend with the chaps while she sits it out at home with the baby. Still, season 06/07 we DO intend to go and with a 14 month baby (toddler ??) and I will be very interested to hear how you and any others get on this season. I've already done an amount of research and from a Package point of view, Esprit Ski seems to cater for many requirements and whilst not cheap there are one or two more modestly priced opportunities if you look hard enough. Most of the regular operators, whilst making a stab at being family friendly, don't really seem to very good when I read the small print or work out the practicalities of it.
If there are other options out there, then I will also be interested to hear.
That said, to answer your specific request, I was in Saalbach in Feb 2004, and stayed in a Chalet Hotel Karlshof which i think was with First Choice. Thou I beleive they were potentially giving it up the next season. The Chalet Hotel had creche facilities on site, and talking with a couple who had a toddler and a young baby there didn't seem to be anything hugely negative about the experience. The 'Chalet Hotel' meant that it was more hotel than chalet ( i.e. less requirement to 'mingle' with the other guests ).
Now Saalbach was a pleasant little resort and we enjoyed our time there, thou I do have some comments that I might leave in a more appropriate forum topic !
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Richie_S, Wilkommen to  s. Prize for longest ever 1st post. There can be excellent late deals with Esprit, take advantage outside the holiday season when you can.
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Thanks ! As long as I can I will go out of peak season, even if it means arguing with the State and Headmasters in years to come ( lets put that one in the bucket marked 'don't get me started' ! ).
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Richie_S, How can you be narked that its OK for schools to do ski trips during term time, but not OK to take your kid on a family trip during term time. 
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
| Richie_S, How can you be narked that its OK for schools to do ski trips during term time, but not OK to take your kid on a family trip during term time. |
Or the Private school that is more than happy, develops languages, social skills, geography, sport, etc etc. and the State school simply says no!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Adam, have you tried these family specialists http://www.hillwood-holidays.co.uk/ They also go to Soll. We went with them twice, once when our eldest was 6 months and the second time with a 11 month and a 2.5 year old. They were good with the kids and we got to meet other families in exactly the same situation.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
Or the Private school that is more than happy, develops languages, social skills, geography, sport, etc etc. and the State school simply says no
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As i said "don't get me started" - next you'll get me on Blunkett !
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Adam Holt, Have you looked at www.skifamille.co.uk ? Chalet based.
I've been with them twice ( last year on both occasions, don't ask , a very long story  , despite no kids in tow). Their nannies really are good. Unfortunately against your criteria they are Les Gets based.
Verbier has a few companies that provide private nannies at reasonable prices if you wanted self-accom, so do Morzine, Les Gets and Avoriaz.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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All 3 of our children went with us as babies. 2 of them at 4 months old.
The one I would recommend would be Puy Saint Vincent with Ski Esprit. The ski area is compact so you can easily get back to the base for the baby to have a lunchtime feed. They have comfortable convenient spacious appartments. You can then chose self catering or meals in their restaurant with baby listening. Food the first time we went was pretty basic but not bad at all when we went back last year.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Richie_S, you could take your lovely wife and new baby with you. Back in 1988, Rosie was due in February. She insisted on arriving before Christmas (8 weeks prem), but we still all went skiing in April ( 4 months old from birthday, but 2 months "by dates"). We went the Granny Option to Obergurgl.
Oberburgl is compact enought to allow Mum to ski, and dash back for Breast Feeds.
And Grandpa had a wonderful time getting back to skiing after a 30 year gap ("none of these lifts in my day, Lad, and none of these fancy boots or binding neither . . . .").
Rosie now skis Warp Factor 5, while I am still on Impulse Power.
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This is good stuff guys - I'll look into all of these options.
eEvans, I've a funny feeling that skifamille are the crowd an ex-colleague raved about - I wouldn't totally rule out somewhere like Les Gets.
Okanagan, I've had a word with the sunandski people and they're already fully booked for the coming season - good for them eh! they must be doing something very right!!
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| Richie_S wrote: |
| Hey all, reading this topic and the one that spawned it prompted me tto join up... |
Glad to hear it ... and another welcome to heeeds.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Adam Holt,
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I've had a word with the sunandski people and they're already fully booked for the coming season - good for them eh! they must be doing something very right!!
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Not half, they're already fully booked for New Year, Half Term and Easter for 2007/08 !
[ Sorry, that should be 2006/07 ] - doh!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Adam Holt, I don't know whether you checked out Hillwood that linked to earlier, but looking in more detail at their brochure, i notice that the do have self-catering as well as hotel options. Plus of course being a child specialist with operations in Soll, it appears to tick all the boxes that you had.
When we went with them first time. There was a 6 week old baby there. Not sure how the mother coped with skiing that soon after the birth though.
Being less specific about any single operator, skiing with children is expensive. What always niggled me was the amount that it cost to take someone not to ski. It really added up. You do want everyone to have a good time though, so it is worth paying for quality. In future years you will want Freddy to be keen on going on skiing holidays, so positive early impressions will count enormously. Our eldest to still mention Chatel and the not very nice nannies that they had one year (not one of the companies that anyone has mentioned I hasten to add).
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Thu 3-11-05 11:25; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Ray Zorro, I'll be looking into that further this morning - from what you say it could be spot on. Whilst I'm doing that you ought to put some work in on your fantasy team!! ha ha, the lead is soon to be mine ha ha ha!!! we'll have to start a thread on the fantasy soon ...
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You know it makes sense.
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We took our daughter to Val D'isere last year when she was about 15 weeks old. We stayed in a large chalet with these people www.lechardonvaldisere.com who were newly independent last season (their chalets had previously been let to a larger operator). In short, we had no problems whatsoever and used a nanny provided by Snowkidz (arranged by them).
In light of our experience I would give the following advice;
1, drive, and take your time. You need LOTS and LOTS of kit when they are that age and I couldn't imagine feasibly taking it all on a plane. We took 3 days getting there and 2 getting back. You have to stop a lot more for the sake of your child, so you may as well relax and enjoy the journey. That said, at that age they sleep most of the time so driving wasn't too stressful.
2, in light of the above, we went for 2 weeks. Once you get there it's a shame to turn around and come back again.
3, take your time driving up and down the mountain and give your child a bottle or dummy to suck to help them equalise the pressure. Once in the resort, stay there, for the same reasons.
4, don't expect to be on the first lift - generally speaking we struggled to get out in the morning. We found it best to feed our daughter just before we left. She was happy to take a bottle, so my wife "expressed" so that she had enough milk for her feeds till we got back between 3 and 4.
5, they dont move at that age, so you don't need to worry about the chalet being childproof. They also don't get bored, as such, so can be left in the warm chalet for the day if the weather is bad etc.
6, check that you can use a monitor in the evening at the dinner table etc - that way you get to relax yourself.
We are planning the winter ahead and frankly are more worried about her now that she is a, mobile b, more aware of her surroundings c, doesn't sleep in the car as much and d, more fussy about her food.
Good luck!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Adam Holt, the stipulation is that if you take any ski-related advice offered by me, you have to sell Lampard!!
You will see I have made 3 changes - you won't stand a chance.
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Thu 3-11-05 11:40; edited 1 time in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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I forgot to say that Le Chardon had some great deals available last year as they were "new", and also very willing to compromise/negotiate in the booking process. We were worried about the "minimum 6 month" stipulation from many of the larger operators but they were all to happy to accomodate.
Having said that, they may be more popular this year as they are obviously more established and there might not be so many low season deals.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Talking to my wife last night, she reminded me that we were advised by a friend, who also happens to be a GP, that we shouldn't consder taking a very small baby skiing due to the altitudes encountered. i.e 'suddenly' taking your child from ~sea level up to 2000+ metres for a week is possibly not so good for them - babies being more susceptible to altitude sickness I guess. My memory isn't great, but I think she was referring to 3 months and younger. Its probably the same kind of advice as "you must wash pre-prepared salads", "not let alcohol pass your lips during pregnancy" and all that well meaning advice that isn't necessarilly needed or practical !
Clearly if you are a tibetan mother whose baby is born at altitude, this doesn't matter !
So not wanting to 'scare monger' or anything, I just wondered if anyone else heard about that ?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Yeah, we considered this point very carefully and consulted a couple of friends who are GPs. In the end we took that view that if our daughter was in good health (she was) and had had her injections (she had) then it would be fine, subject to being careful about ascending too quickly. We waited till very late in the season (april) and booked late for those exact reasons.
There doesn't seem to be a huge body of evidence for or against this, but I may stand corrected. As Richie_S said this struck us as "well meaning advice" and how one regard it depends on the parent/parents.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Richie_S The altitude question is a factor - the quote below is an out take from my biblically proportioned first post on this thread.
| Adam Holt wrote: |
| For various reasons I’d like to keep to fairly low village altitude so I’m pretty set on Austria. |
I just didn't want to open up that can of worms to let us get too sidetracked on the whether you should or shouldn't go in the first place type stuff!! But yes I wouldn't be too keen on going from sea level (and I live about 6 feet above sea level 25 feet from the shore!) to 2000+m just like that. I use myself as a yard stick on this because thats the other of the "various reasons" that I refer to above - I'm crap at altitude - can barely sleep, often get panicky at night struggling to breate etc. Cervinia earlier this year was a bit of a mare for me and coming back over from Zermatt - I'll not be rushing to do that again!
So in short if I'm that bad at altitude and he's my son, and he's a baby etc etc I just see it as a risk that we don't need to take ... hence I'm looking for low altitude village.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Adam Holt, if you fly, you go from sea level to 3000m+ far faster than if you drove up to the resort. Aeroplanes may be "pressurized", but they are not pressurized to sea level, but to the equivalent of 2500 to 3000m.
There are lots of sites in Internetland offering advice (try Googling with <altitude safe for baby>) [url=http://www.babycentre.co.uk/refcap/561725.html]
This site[/url] seems sensible.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
if you fly, you go from sea level to 3000m+ far faster than if you drove up to the resort. Aeroplanes may be "pressurized", but they are not pressurized to sea level, but to the equivalent of 2500 to 3000m.
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True, but only for an hour or so, then you're back down to earth ... I guess Adam's concern was adjusting to the altitude over a period of days.
If altitude is an issue what about the East Cost of the USA - Smugglers Notch is rated very highly for kids/families ... albeit getting there is another issue.
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Austria is absolutely fine for altitude - lots of resort villages at only 1000m and many at less. In Cervinia, resort level is a scratch over 2000m i think and that was just a bit uncomfortable for me - probably lots of my suffering there was psychosomatic and probably brought on by stressing over Sue being pregnant - but I just want to try skiing the next time with a low resort village and see if it makes a difference.
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Adam Holt,
A couple of thoughts; Personally I would go for a catered option rather than self catering. As your family gets older catered will become less and less affordable it is nice to have someone doing the cooking for you whilst you can and you and missus will have enough time looking after the baby without having to shop cook tidy etc you are on holiday. The extra space of an appartment is nice for toddlers but not necessary for babies.
If you cannot find chalet operators who you find useful try contacting the tourist offices directly I have found them helpful in recommending hotels suggesting baby sitters etc, particularly the Swiss. On the other thread I mentioned Flims as a possibility this is 1100m in altitude but with goood high skiing if necessary, Powder Byrne use it as a family destination resort (they look v expensive), it may be worth contacting the tourist office to see if they can help.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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T Bar, Thanks for that - it would certainly be preferrable to have catered! shopping, cooking, dishes etc could be a pain - but I would do it under the right circumstances. Looking into the mother in law coming now! .....
You see this thread is just advice advice advice! Its all in the caveats you put in your initial post - thanks guys!
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Adam Holt, Well you don't get much lower than Les Gets !
I have to be a little sceptical about the effects of altitude, living on the Cote d'Azur it is very easy to go from the coast to 1000m plus in a few miles and as many minutes ( i.e. about 1/2 an hour) , same must be almost true for many valleys in the Alps. Mums and Dads seem to do it all the time down here , and I've never seen any adverse effects on any babies here 
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