 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I've just compiled a similar list for the lady mentioned in the Saphir thread:
Head i 800
Fischer RX 6
Dynastar Exclusive Carve (Men's Omecarve 9 for comparison) ◄
Elan S8 (possibly look at the S10 and if she does OK on that then the Fusion S Pro)
Volkl 380 (Y?) but also the 4*
Atomic C9 Puls (but not the B or women's model)
Nordica Speedmachine 12◄
K2 Burning Luv
All those 158-162 cm except the 4*,S10/Fusion S Pro/C9 Puls shorter. The primary goal is very good grip on Eastern Canada hardpack with smooth no-unweight transitions at some speed, with enough versatility for moguls.
► Tried already (162cm) on instructor's suggestion; slight preference for Dynastar may have been influenced by fatigue at end of day.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Cathy Coins, On the whole I wouldn't recommend women's skis if you want to improve. They're mostly very soft, light and with silly graphics. Wait to see what they've got and test as many that seem suitable as possible. The Volkls you mention would be find I should think, but on the whole I would avoid Salomon as they're more expensive on the whole for the same thing. The 3V is rated the most difficult to ski!
I like my Rossi Scratch FS - light, easy, good off piste, pretty fair on piste. The only difficulty I have with them is that they're not stiff enough to deal with full-on carving, but otherwise a nice all around ski. Also the Head Monster (the most pistey version would suit).
Anyway, try them all. 
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easiski, any idea how the Scratch BC is for a woman?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Thanks comprex, that's a very useful list and a few I hadn't thought of.
Interesting easiski, I had thought that as women's skis were softer & lighter then I would improve more with them but you think I may be better with standard skis - I'm certainly looking to improve so I'll try a good selection of both types. Thanks a lot for the advice.
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[quote="ise"easiski, any idea how the Scratch BC is for a woman?[/quote]
Scrub that, it's shortest length would be too long, I guess the FS looks better. I'll suggest the Head Monsters though, I know sparrish has some and she really rates them.
Cathy Coins, Mrs Ise has never had a womans ski before and I'm beginning to wonder what the point is now. If you want a soft ski plenty of the mens skis which are pushed out as "all mountain" skis are very soft, pretty much all of the Salomon range for example.[/b]
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ise, i only got a women's ski cos i am small and many of the othersweren't short enough. I tried some Head Lightind iC w 's at Castleford Xscape which I really liked. I think I may quickly outgrow my Rossi's although I love them now.
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Cathy Coins, No, most of the women's skis are just marketing for people more interested in pretty graphics (flowers - ugh) - no offense Helen Beaumont,. If you want to improve you need a ski that will stretch you a bit and not a totally forgiving ski. As ise, says, lot of All Terrain skis are fairly soft - not all top end skis are unforgiving, but they are more precise. My old volkl P50 slaloms are really very easy to ski on (several clients have tried them), as are the Fischer World Cup SCs believe it or not! They are very heavy though. 
ise, I have skied the BC (now available in more lengths) at 180. It was fine but I liked the FS better. Do like the Monsters as well though. Question of where I get the best deal really ...........
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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most of the women's skis are just marketing for people more interested in pretty graphics
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Well, I couldn't disagree more! I bought my women's skis (Rossi - can't remember the model offhand but they don't have flowers or anything girly on them) because they, and the bindings were light. If you're 5' 6" and 8 stone, with no muscles to speak of, you don't need anything hard core. Or anything you can't carry for more than a few yards. All my friends, male and female, have remarked how light they are when we swap skis at restaurants.
Of course, if you're a good skier, with muscles to really work a ski, then there is a much better choice out there!
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maggi, I couldn't agree more with you! I'm 5ft tall (short!) and 8 stone wet through and I certainly found my Salomon women's Xscream that I purchased a couple of years ago made a huge difference to my skiing- more confidence, more speed etc. Then there is the added bonus of them being lighter to haul around and I can slot then single handed into the once dreaded brackets on the outside of gondolas. I'm not a wimpy female as I ride a motorbike and hurtle around the countryside on a horse too - in fact the neighbours think I have a death wish! I definitely don't do pretty graphics!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Well, after the first round of demos, the list has changed quite a bit.
Current list:
Atomic C9 Puls 160 105 64 97
Atomic B11 158 117 65 103
Blizzard 2003 SLK 155 106 64 95
Dynastar Omecarve 10 158 115 65 104
Dynastar Omecarve 9 158 115 65 104
Dynastar Exclusive Carve Active 158 116 64 104
Elan S8 160 112 67 100
Elan Fusion S Pro 155 116 66 100
Fischer RX 6 160 111 67 96
Head Lightning C R2 113 68 97
Head I.XRC800 156 or 163 117 66 101
K2 T:Nine Burnin' Luv 160 109 68 99
K2 Apache X 160 109 68 99
Nordica Speedmachine 12 162 114 67 100
Rossignol B1Womens 160? 109 70 99
Rossignol Saphir 2 153 109 68 95
Volkl Energy 420 156/163 110 66 97
Volkl Energy 380 Gamma 156 110 66 97
Volkl 4-Star 154/161 112 67 97
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Now, as some of you may recollect from the Rossi Saphir thread, the lady is a level 4-5 with goals of consistent improvement. 3 days of instruction this season.
The very interesting thing about the demo list is that her preference seems to correlate to the difference between tail and waist width. Length, tip width (and thereby turn radius), damping and lifters seem to be irrelevant.
Tested so far, in order of preference (number in parentheses is my calculation of the dimension difference):
Dynastar Omecarve 10 158 (39)
Dynastar Omecarve 9 152 (39)
Nordica Speedmachine 12 162 (33)
K2 T:Nine Burnin' Luv 160 (31)
Rossignol B1Womens 160 (29)
Rossignol Saphir 2 153 (27)
All demos were done on typical Eastern US early-season hardpack conditions, with 8-10cm of mosly manmade snow on top. Moderate bumps, blue terrain.
Now, the issues and questions:
- Is there an obvious (to an instructor) flaw that would cause this apparent bias?
- Is she even ready to form this opinion (and spend the money for next-to-top of the line gear)?
- The Volkl 4*, Head Lightning, and Fischer RX6 all have tail/waist difference of less than 30. Should we bother hunting these down for demo?
- My current hypothesis is that she is too insecure in her balance to actually feel a carving ski, and that she is looking for a FAT tail to provide that feedback. Given this hypothesis, should these first results be completely ignored when it comes time to purchase?
- Would purchase now "lock in" technique or balance flaws?
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comprex,
I take my hat off to you for demo'ing all those skis..!!
And the conditions appear relevant to what a skier on reds would get in Europe, ie hard-pack lots of the time.
If you want to go bombing around on reds and blues then get one that can cope with ice. And to do that well it will need to be stiff-ish. If it isn't stiff, it isn't worth a ....no, I digress...!!
Basically, good luck. because skis are a compromise, what is good in soft snow and helpful in moguls isn't likley to great on ice. It 's the age old ski problem. They isn't one that does it all but there are ones that do more things well.
My preference would start with Salomon X scream type skis for women as they are good all rounders and lightish and soft.
If you can cope on ice with one then buy it..
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You know it makes sense.
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JT, she seems to want a citizen slalom ski or something indistiguishable from it. I had to talk quickly to stop her from buying the first pair she got along with.
It is very hard to get any meaningful statement other than 'nice'; she's objecting to chatter in the lighter skis (K2) and the longer skis with narrower (than 98mm) tails seem to "hang up" on her.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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comprex, I'd recommend shorter on the RX6 as a possibility. Also, she might want to try the K2 One Luv or True Luv, as well. A friend I respect very highly (PSIA Examiner) swears by the K2 women's skis. I would go ahead and try those that do not have 30mm of sidecut, just to see how they work for her.
I'm wondering if her bias for the tail has something to do with where and how she's standing on the skis. If her weight is back (a frequent challenge for female skiers due to CoM anatomical shift lower and back), then she may not even feel the tips' ability to help her turn. Check her stance from the side and see if her toes/knees/shoulders are aligned and perpendicular to the slope or if, instead, she's back of perpendicular.
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Poster: A snowHead
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ssh, thanks, good to have common sense advice when struggling with so many numbers and sensations (not to mention prices).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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comprex, what do you think about the anatomy question? Is she levering off the rear cuffs of her boots? Letting her posterior drop back so that she's really only using the rear of the ski? Think she could learn something by keeping her shins touching her cuffs?
A couple of drills to consider (whenever they might be suitable):
Parameter turns: make a series of turns varying to the extreme your stance: ski way forward, then way back. Ski very tall, then very short. Ski very stiff, then very loose.
Loose boots: on a very smooth and gentle hill, loosen the top two buckles of the boots and make some turns.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Tue 28-12-04 0:04; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Easily possible ssh; I did notice front-to-back balance problems, more of a bouncing than steadily back. I thought then that it was due to a wide-parallel stance with the inside tip rather far forward.
The tracks (specifically from the B1Ws with least sidecut depth) show an upside-down comma shape or ﺭ
form with a snow spray at about 2 o'clock on the arc, so I was tempted to think that initiation might be correct but the midpoint skidded.
We'll do loose boots soonest.
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comprex,
Ha! I had brought in a load of books on suitable skis etc but it apears the track
ssh has got you thinking on may be more relevant. And if you can't find a suitable ski with all the ones you have ear-marked then it may be technique rather than the ski.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Cathy Coins, I currently ski the volkl 320 gamma, which I have found to be a great ski, and has taken me every where I want to go so far - I cruise blues, and head for the blacks for a challenge and some fun! I'm classed as an advanced skier - I can carve turns on most terrain except steeps and when I'm not confident. I ski mainly on piste. I bought these skis after 4 days of skiing, and I haven't looked back - I started in Jan '04, did 31 days last season and I've done 20 so far this season. However, I have found I get a lot of 'chatter' in firm conditions (sierra cement), and I do need something else for powder! I'm now looking at the volkl 724 range - unfortunately Santa wasn't looking too! 
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A couple of years ago I started to try skiis. I tried the womens ones but found that they were too soft. I therefore went for light unisex ones and now am the proud owner of a pair of K2 Mach Vs. I had always learnt on unisex skiis and I think that there is some truth in the different balancing of the skiis as I found them weird to ski in.
My best advice is to try as many pairs as you can and when you come down with a grin on your face then they are the right pair.
Hope this helps
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chloeb, good points. If you're on a unisex ski, an adjustable binding may help a bit with that balance thing...
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Hi all
I posted the 'I last had Kneissl Ergo racer skis'. Some of the reasons that I had started to investigate womens skis are that I have the dreaded lean back (to a degree) and find that i have to focus not to shift into it. Also being 9 and a bit stone and 5'9 makes me light on my skis. As an relatively advanced skier (25 weeks plus) I am now totally confused as to the suitability of womens skis for my level but I appreciate that some of the principles behind them are good. I hate the girly flower bits though as it really earmarks your skis!!
This year I wont have much time to try out skis so I want to buy before I go (Ergos about to get grandad status). What are Kneissl at does anyone know- theres very little on them at the moment.
Anyway, has anyone bought without trying on piste and how did they fare? Will I try the girls gear? I don't like wide tails. I ski tight as started on the old straight skis and old habits die hard ....in my case.
CC 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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For what it is worth, (probably not much) Bev used her new Atomic B9 puls Lady skis last week in Kitzbuhel and loved them. She also was responsible for selling at least one and possibly two pairs to other women who a) wanted to ski like Bev and b) appreciated their lightness and forgiving nature. (And they match her jacket!!).
They suit her well as she is little, light and stylish. She would describe herself as an intermediate, but takes some keeping up with when on form.
If you are in her sort of category, then don't dismiss them. Maybe if she isn't too busy at work on Tuesday she will comment herself. She's out with the Nag at present.
Sorry about the error. Bev tells me her skis are B9 not as previously recorded! 
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Sun 2-01-05 19:55; edited 1 time in total
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My wife was one of the ladies mentioned by Chris Bish,on Bevs recomendation she hired a pair for 2 days while in Kitzbuhel and loved them.Lght,grippy and great turns.When we got home wentstraight down to Snow and Rock in Sheffield and bought a pair.Also got some new bots.Went today to Escape snow dome in Castleford to try them out.bought 2 hour tickets for £60 and lasted 40 mins,its the most boring sking experience i have ever encountered.But she did get to try her new gear and came away elated.Looking forward to our next trip in late jan 2005.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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B8's sound interesting- going to check them out!
Am also considering-
K2- one luv
Rossingol- Bandit B1
Volant- platinum
Head- i.XRC 1100 chip
Volkl- 380 gammas
Also, what about Stockli- are they all hard to tame?
Does anyone have an opinion on any of these/tried them?
Unlike the lady further up the thread- I learned to ski on straight skis so I ski tight therefore the tail on a pure carver throws me a bit. My last ski was 95 63 90 and i loved it. I have no problem carving but am not so great on the powder so I'm thinking that I should go for a wider waist say, 70-75 sticking with a narrowish tail of about 100-110. Better for powder but still all mountain? I'd appreciate any opinions! CC
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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CC, Please note my edit above. Bev and now Linda's skis are B9s.
You mentioned Kneissel above. Well (Having never heard of them) I saw a pair in Kitz last week. They were inset with Swarovski crystal and going for €1700!
As the Atomics are around £280 complete I think they are a good deal!
yinkymoka, Are you going to get some proper skis too? 
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Hi Chris,already one step ahead of you,blades listed on ebay for sale as well as Lindas old boots.Already bids up too £69 for the blades and nothing so far for the boots.
Lindas skis cost £279 with the device 259 bindings.What about a suggestion for my self loking for a good all rounder only on piste.Ability intermediate minus.
Looking at the Rossingnol open 300 ,what do you think.
vinny
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You know it makes sense.
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Thanks Chris
mmmm- crystal on the ski's - sounds very Dynasty-ish and a snip at €1,700 ha,ha!!
As for Kneissl they are an Austrian ski company and were a big name up until about 8 years ago- they invented the carving ski apparently. A ski instructor recommended them to me as he said that they were one of the last few skis that still had a wooden core (think Stockli are the other) and that I would notice the difference- which I did. Thats why I initially started out looking for that brand again but there is so little info on them now....so it's on to another I guess!! CC
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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CC, how often do you get out skiing? I have found that getting on skis with monster sidecut (like 11m turn radius) became really fun once I just learned to tip the ski to turn. If you get out frequently enough to treak your skillset, you may find it fun and amazing, too...
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Poster: A snowHead
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yinkymoka, Or Vince as I might prefer to call you, my only experience of Rossignol skis was some Bandits I hired in Mottaret and they were superb. Knowing what I do of your ski preferences I would say that you should insist on short skis. I'm no way an expert (some of the American guys on here, ssh and comprex for example are the gear freaks, but I think you would be quite Ok on 160s, maybe even 150s. It's the carve profile that counts. I suggest you put up a new thread and be honest about your limitations (which are the same as mine i.e. too many miles on clock and too many Kg!) and see what people think. Either way try before you buy. I know Castleford is dull, but its better than nothing for trying skis. I wanted a ski that was not too carvy which is how I ended up with my Head C140s. I wish now I had gone for 10cm shorter than my 170s. Ask for suggestions.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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In December's Daily Mail Ski Mag P.72 - On Piste Int. Skis - Review - there is a common thread in 'Martin's View' which I find puzzling. For example - Atomic C7 - 'Martin's View' "....soft, stable and happy to skid all day" and Head Cyber C110 -"... a happy medium between carving turns well and skidding turns.."
Why is 'skidding' given much due ? I though all skis sold nowadays were good carving skis ? 
Skis are graded on other factors such as edge hold etc. Are the testers being pernickity?
My skis are ladies Atomic C9 (a grotty green colour) which came with rave reviews and seem to have done me well for my 5 weeks skiing. Could I buy a pair that had better edge hold or that would help me improve short turns etc.?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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erica2004, "old style" skiers need the skidding, and many folks aren't ready to transition quite yet.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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erica2004,
All skis skid and all skis carve, it is the input of the skier that determines when they do it.
If you aren't always driving the ski through the turn and feeling a sensation of skiing on rails you probably aren't carving.
So most people don't carve all the time. I don't think it is a problem as long as the turn you perform is the turn you want to perform. All turns have their uses. It wouldn't help skiing progress as a sport if they made skis unskiddable. That would be a backward step. The carving ski was mostly invented to make skiing easier not harder. Most people couldn't go off-piste with a 200cm GS ski which used to be the case but now the wider carver shape makes it so much easier.
You can tell how which is which when you stop, if you can stop on a sixpence its a very tight carve with the edges banged in,
If you glide to a halt its a skid...!!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Hi Chris
are you suggesting im old and fat.You might be right.Im older than you,but your fatter.I seem to have inherited Lindas old skis her Atomic 120cm.Tried them at Xscape on sunday,very nice.But your right i do need shorter skis,looking to get 150cm/160cm.Poring over some reviews of last years models.Might be able to pick up a set from ebay.Back to work tomorrow and looking forward to the next break.Keep in touch vinny
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Hi JT - I'm quite happy carving and skidding - just wondered if my skis were up to scratch
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erica2004,
Couldn't really say having not seen you ski, but for what it is worth...
I would imagine for 5 weeks you may still stem - if you have been taught to do that- so would need a forgiving ski and that would be one that allows skiiding. If you are not parallel all the time you have probably not outgrown your skis yet. For short swings you will have to bang them in quite hard so you get them to pop up. Otherwise, develop a good pole plant and jump around it. It helps if you get the ski and terrain to help here, hard work otherwise. But in my experience you are looking at a leap forward in your technique. To do short swings initiallty a light-ish ski might help as you will be over-emphasing getting them up off the ground. But when you want the ski to be helpful you need it to be stiffer than maybe you are used to. That way, it will rebound out of the turn and you can learn to use that energy to get them to turn.
Start by turning on bumps and whilst you are in the air, turn the skis round your pole plant. Get used to leaning on the pole and make sure your poles straps are tight enough to support your grip on the pole.
I would assume you are having lessons so ask the instructor to teach you short swings. Basically they involve popping up to initiate the turn.
There is a thread that says you don't need to do this and on most pistes I agree. The problem comes when you have to turn within the radius of the skis natural turn. A short swing helps to do this. It also helps in moguls and steep blacks which need a tight turn. Funnily enough short swings are easier on steeper terrain as gravity kicks in and you spend more time in the air. And if you can do short swings you will have outgrown those skis and will need a stiffer ski. Then you will want it to float as well in deep snow and so welcome to the great ski conundrum., which is the ski that does everything ...!!!
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Thanks JT. We've had 5 weeks (in the past 20mths) of ski school and ski parallel on reds - carving the easier ones. The short swings are eluding me at present because they seem to require more energy from me than I've actually got ! Saying that, I'm pretty physically fit. That old fashioned way of mincing down the piste looks very appealing. 
I don't know if I should incorporate some 'jumping on the spot' type excercises at home ?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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erica2004,
You will find it very hard to lift the ski and boot up into the air enough to turn them. You need to use the terrian to help you. Start by getting a helpful lift off bumps and pivot the skis whilst off the snow. You must have a pole plant to start this, you can even lean on it. If you watch good skiers do them they appear to pull their feet up by lifting them off the snow rather than jumping up with them. The latter using more energy.
I would get a feel for theser by standing still on the flat and learning on both poles to swivel them around. You don't have to get them round very far and using both poles you will not be able to anyway because your skis will hit the poles but you should be getting the support from the pole.
And here is a drill that should work enough for you to get a feel or what you should be trying to do.
Pick a small mound of snow on a smooth piste and ski at it. Stamp down you heels a couple of times whilst skiing at the mound. This gives you sense of unweighing the ski, plant the pole just before the mound which you are going to turn around, lean on the pole and pull your heels up whilst turning the fronts of the skis. See how that works.
I must say that this is quite advanced for 5 weeks. It is easier on steep blacks and the idea is to be able to turn in the lenght of your skis and link them. It it probably harder to do this on green paths. But once you get a feel for these you will bash the ski into a turn serverely, the skis will rebound or pop you up and you can use that energy to start to turn.
Hence the stiffer skis because they help the rebound.
It is an advanced technique that really comes into its own on steep stuff when you must get them round. Once you can do this, the hill really opens up.
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FAQ
) Purely for on-piste.
