OK, I teased our new friend Franz Klammer so it only seems right that he has a chance to reciprocate. Here is a small amount of evidence of my lack of performance this year. I'm afraid I don't have a expert Go-pro film maker to follow me down the hill so this isn't brilliant footage as we can only have the movie maker at a fixed point on the hill. As I mentioned on the other thread absolutely no upper/lower body separation, no up and down, no pole plants and I'm still not convinced that I'm carving , but maybe, just maybe....my turn shape has improved and perhaps I am not so 'stiff'?
I come from the left in both shots in red sallies - the blue peril who only puts in real effort when he needs to is Scarpas's nightmare LOL Minimum_2. Fill your boots Franz Klammer (and anyone else) I deserve it
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Fri 1-03-13 19:47; edited 1 time in total
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Hmm... tiz suspiciously quiet!
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Megamum wrote:
As I mentioned on the other thread absolutely no upper/lower body separation, no up and down, no pole plants and I'm still not convinced that I'm carving , but maybe, just maybe....my turn shape has improved and perhaps I am not so 'stiff'?
Megamum, the most important question is, do YOU enjoy your skiing? if you do, then everything else is of pretty much little consequence unless you are aspiring to up your performance.
Sometimes we can get so worked up with the techniques and technical principles of what we want the ideal me/skier to look like, that we sometimes forget to enjoy the ride.
Touchguru, I enjoy it now much more than I did - it still falls behind Horse riding and swimming, but I used to dread going. Now I will occasionally get down a slope and say 'that was great, let's do it again!'. However, with me, doing something well and enjoyment go hand in hand. I get an immense amount of satisfaction (call it enjoyment) out of doing something well. As you might imagine skiing, therefore, frustrates the hell out of me. When I can see in a video the skier I can see in my mind's eye (and that skier is not absolutely perfect by any means) I will be quite content with things. At the moment I can't
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Megamum wrote:
Touchguru I get an immense amount of satisfaction (call it enjoyment) out of doing something well. As you might imagine skiing, therefore, frustrates the hell out of me. When I can see in a video the skier I can see in my mind's eye (and that skier is not absolutely perfect by any means) I will be quite content with things. At the moment I can't
Don't take up golf then!!!!
My favourite skiing comment (which can be related to a lot of other things) is... The better I become, the worse I was!
I can understand what you are saying and I think a lot of people have in their minds eye what they ski like, with the reality not exactly matching this at all times.
Actually, maybe if you could explain what the skier who you see in your minds eye is doing, then that could be a really good way to get input and also do some self learning towards how you want to ski rather than how other people/instructors want/think you should ski.
Touchguru, the skier in my mind's eye is effortlessly scything down a moderate red, making it look no trouble to her at all, relaxed carved curves, clearly in control the sort of skier that you point to on a chair lift with a knowing nod and say to your kids 'now she knows what she is doing'. Just in my mind's eye of course.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Megamum, it might help if you think of skiing as more than just carved turns. Very few skiers will make cleanly carved turns on red pistes. It might help you to develop a wider repertoire of skiing skills if you don't think of carving as he pinnacle of skiing.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Megamum, well personally I think that looks a lot better than your video you put up last year, if I remember right. Although I think last year's slope was steeper - these look a bit flattish, altho I know the camera can be deceiving. But why are you carrying poles?
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cathy, it may have been a less challenging slope, it's difficult to remember where we did it last year, but I do think I was moving faster on the longer slope than I may have been last year. You are quite correct about the poles, I just can't seem to remember to do anything with them. The daft thing is that whenever I had lessons even right from the start poles and their use were taught, but I just don't seem to use them. Even when I ski down the steepest slopes I will tackle I still find I have got down without their use. Ever dafter is that if anyone takes them away I just don't know what to do with my arms everything feels def. odd.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Touchguru wrote:
Sometimes we can get so worked up with the techniques and technical principles of what we want the ideal me/skier to look like, that we sometimes forget to enjoy the ride.
While I agree with your sentiments, I think the enjoyment of skiing increases exponentially (up to a point) as we improve our "techniques and technical principles". Every step forward I take, my enjoyment of skiing increases hugely. Yes, don't get worked up; but still aim to get the principals right coz then you will have much more fun...guaranteed!!
Megamum I'm no expert, but you're definitely not as bad as you make out. I do think you're a bit lazy though (as was I). More lessons, ski with some good skiers and start pushing your boundaries; it's what really helped me get out of my comfort zone. Have you skied bumps? It will almost force you to be dynamic (vertically, at least) and improve your balance. Also, GS gates will help with your separation and using your edges more IME.
E.G. This season I was with a group of really fast skiers and speed is something I've never been comfortable with - I usually just cruise along with medium skiddy turns. But to keep up, I HAD to speed up and I HAD to force myself to make longer, faster turns. I got a tip about getting on my edges earlier which was fantastic coz the control I had afterwards jumped up a level - I felt I was on rails at times (I need smoother transitions tho, just like in the amazing Ligety vid!! ) It was a great experience and really improved my confidence at speed and my overall enjoyment.
IMO, the real question you have to ask is, do you really want to improve, or are you actually happy where you are? If it's the latter, then that's cool. But if it's the former, you have to work a bit harder
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Megamum, never having met or skied with you but it strikes me you are reading very technical threads on here and comparing yourself against folk training for BASI exams.
Its fine if you want to go down that route, but as rob said to me there is a massive gap between a good recreational skier and a technically proficient BASI level skier.
Which do you want to be?
I was a good recreational skier, I then started down the slippery BASI slope and am realising how much more I can and need to learn and improve. This makes zero difference to my recreational skiing, I could happily carry on being the 'best' skier on our group holidays, but I want to develop my technical skiing to improve myself and perhaps get into more instruction.
What do you want from your skiing?
Good luck,
Greg
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
kitenski wrote:
.... there is a massive gap between a good recreational skier and a technically proficient BASI level skier.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
kitenski, ALQ, (thank you for the vote for 'not as bad as I think I am' ALQ, ) I want to be better than I am. I'd like to feel that I was capable of negotiating the whole mountain safely (note safely - rather than skillfully), at the moment I have a colour lock-out when the poles get a black tint to them and won't go near them - though I do know that I have skied some fairly moderate reds and skied in some atrocious conditions so hopefully my skills have increased lately as I could not have done that a few years ago - I'm sure I won't ever ski black runs for 'fun', but I like to reach a point where I am not scared of them). I don't think I am ever going to be BASI material, but I would like to be a good reacreational skier, and I think includes developing the confidence to ski the whole mountain safely which I don't do at the moment.
rob@rar, Not every turn needs to be carved - got it! They sure as hell aren't carved when I start dealing with the mound-y stuff!!
However, I was conscious this year that I was doing something different with the mounds. The troughs were scraped, hard and glassy in places, this time I realised what everyone on here has told me, the best snow is actually associated with the mound. I actually started watching for the mounds and the good snow associated with them and was actually timing and aiming my turns to make use of it. I wasn't getting a rhythmic turn around every single mound and they would only be classed as day old mounds, rather than bone fide moguls, but it was a completely different approach for me - I could read the snow and do something as a result. The result was I was tending to turn on the downside of the mound.
However, with an eye on becoming that good recreational skier I have done what I promised myself and I have just booked up 7.5 hours of lessons at the EoSB - That's nearly a whole day under the eye of an instructor. 3 X 2 hrs group lesson, and one 1.5 hr private. Perhaps I can get some help with my body position and pole plants. Surely even I can end up skiing better after skiing with an instructor for that amount of time!!
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much on Sun 3-03-13 23:46; edited 1 time in total
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Megamum, didn't you do any lessons on this last trip?
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
gatecrasher, No, I haven't had any lessons since the 2 hr session with the Austrian instructor last year. I had another 9 days mountain skiing and 6 hours own practice in a snow dome and now this last weeks holiday since that session.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Megamum, Ahh ok, tbh you shouldn't get frustrated when things aren't moving on at a pace you'd like, now if you'd had lots of lessons and practised regularly and things still didn't progress, "that" would be frustrating.
Take what you can from your next lessons, but don't get too hung up on the technical side of it all, and just enjoy your skiing for the time you get to do it.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
gatecrasher, I'm promising myself the first bit of your post when those six numbers hit the spot for me!!
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Blimey!!!!!!!!!!!
Oooops I missed All of this....
just catching up
Megamum I'm no expert, but you're definitely not as bad as you make out.
+1 ....Definately
Stop arguing for your own limitations or you will surely win!
Firstly Thank you for the reciprocal exposure....Well done for posting, so few do
Encore please..........got any more footage??
Question: What do you think is the biggest most dominant inhibitor (apart from the lack of 6 lotto numbers) to your skiing development, what stops you progressing at the rate you want ??
Question: Who do you usually ski with? does this encourage to push yourself?
Cant think of anything else helpful or gems of wisdom to offer at the mo
Respect Sister!
one motivator for me is...... I'd rather die in an avalanche than at my desk !!
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Mon 4-03-13 1:17; edited 1 time in total
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
ALQ,
We dont need no steenking badges
LMAO Classic
Ok so you have experience of rhythm, timing from riding and freedom of movement in the pool: surely transferable skills to your skiing if you relax and enjoy it.
I'd recommend a thumping good playlist on your headphones and a couple of Jack Daniels before lunch ( I never drink apart from when skiing).
I am not advocating skiing drunk, just enough to relax your muscular tension n reduce fear of crashing. (2 doubles usually..lol)
You obviously want to advance but you gotta take a risk or two (calculated safe risks), but nevertheless pushing the envelope.
I think that is why I advance as I do. RELAX and allow the progression to happen.
I rode once: the shift from walking to trotting freaked me right out & I went stiff as a board ! It's probly time for you to "canter" use your rhythm, try the music.
You do the airbag too next time too
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Hard to make out much from the footage as mostly you are a speck in the distance, but I think you're doing fine. For sure there are a lot of things you could improve, but you have control, so everything else is icing on the cake. The overall impression is that you're relaxed and skiing well within your abilities in that footage. As other's said, I think you're better than you make out.
After all it is free
After all it is free
franzClammer,
Quote:
a couple of Jack Daniels before lunch
That will be on top of the three gluweins that I've usually had by then eh? Slope? {hic} what slope? {hic}
I don't think there was any more footage . I don't listen to music when I ski, but I did find myself humming Amarillo one day after a previous apres evening. If I ever did I am sure it would be rock music though. I ski with my kids and FraserP most of the time. The kids are mostly supportive, though cheeky enough to point out when Mum has got it completely wrong. FraserP spends a lot of time telling me what I should be doing and what I am not doing, I do try very hard! He believes I have the potential to be better than I am, he is probably right.
I'd like to get some better video footage, but without any more investment in new video things. I find a bit of video footage is good for me, I never look like I think I am going to. My son has a chest mount for a video camera, but we tried that last year and got nothing worthwhile - I think the camera was too low and relied too much on the way he was facing. I don't know whether it is easier to see skiing style from the front or the back, i.e. would we get on better standing in middle of the slope and video down to and then past the camera person. If anyone has any video tips that don't involve buying a go-pro and skiing round looking like a tellytubby I'd be interested.
Last edited by After all it is free on Mon 4-03-13 21:21; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Spend some time with what you've got playing with the zoom. You want the skier filling more of the frame than you think. Skiing past the camera guy is always good. A good start is to work out the zoom so that you get the optimal framing at halfway down the filmed piece of skiing in question.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Or just ski around with franz, guaranteed to get you in frame at some point!
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
The trouble is, as you can see in one of the videos as it zooms it then has to cope with refocussing and that takes valuable time. NB. I'll point these instructions at the kids - they do the filming!
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Megamum, for analysing your skiing then you want a fixed position for the camera, and a good zoom lens preferably with some form of stabilisation. If necessary wait until the camera has focused on the skier then give them a wave to tell them to start skiing, then try to keep them as large as possible in the frame. It doesn't need to be a very long pitch that you are filmed on as you don't need more than a dozen of turns to work out what is going on. If possible ski past the camera position for another half dozen turns so you get footage from the front and from the side.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
rob@rar, I'll have a look at my bone fide video camera that might have a better zoom function - I guess a good thing to experiment on might be one of us cycling towards the camera.
Why would you want to load the front of the ski in order to reverse the chamber? Surely standing on the middle of the ski will more effectively bend the ski along its length?
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
rob@rar, I found that whole video very confusing and hard to follow, and wasn't really sure what it was aimed at!!
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
kitenski, me to. I also find coaching speak, such as rob@rar wrote, confusing.
Quote:
Why would you want to load the front of the ski in order to reverse the chamber? Surely standing on the middle of the ski will more effectively bend the ski along its length?
Surely the only place you can stand on the ski is where the binding is fixed
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Frosty the Snowman, apologies. Shorthand for your balance point being under the middle of your foot. Other options would include balance point under the ball of the foot (applies more weight to the front of the ski), heel (applies more weight to the back of the ski), or in more extreme cases using the leverage of the front of the boot or the back of the boot to bend the ski (as Warren was doing in that static drill were he was rocking back and fore).
rob@rar, got it. It took me back to being told in a lesson to "Now, stand on the ski" and me thinking "well i'm not using it as a feckin hat!"
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Frosty the Snowman,
Thanks for picking me up on sloppy language. Something I should always guard against. For example, I know exactly what "stand on the ski" means (most people don't until quite late in the turn), but as an instruction to a client it is worse than useless.
Why would you want to load the front of the ski in order to reverse the chamber? Surely standing on the middle of the ski will more effectively bend the ski along its length?
I don't think he means only load the front of the ski (by pressing down with the forefoot only and not the heel) but to also get pressure onto the front of the ski - maybe he should have said "to get pressure onto the front of the ski as well". The diagram clearly shows the ski bending in a uniform arch.
So how do you stay perfectly balanced with pressure going down through the ski directly under the middle of the binding mounts as the ski speeds up and slows down through a turn?
Should it be a perfect symmetrical curve, don't other turns load the front of the ski ? (e.g. Dolphin turns, Phantom foot - lifting tail of inside ski to start turn). Aren't the bindings on some skis mounted further forward or back? Is it still possible to carve on such skis?
Isn't this also a technique racers use?
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
DB wrote:
Isn't this also a technique racers use?
I believe that is the case. Until recently I would begin turns (when on piste) by putting a bit more pressure through the front of my foot/moving my balance forward slightly and then allowing the pressure to move towards my heels by the end of the turn. For various reasons I now try to stay as centred as I can, with the balance point through the middle of my foot. As I don't ski against the clock I can't say that changing my fore/aft balance had made any difference to my ability to alter the shape of my turns (this season, in fact, I'm able to do that more effectively, although this has nothing to do with my fore/aft position).
IMO there are movements which are significantly more important to learn for carving your turns. Messing around with subtle changes to fore/aft position during a turn is pretty low down the list of priorities for the vast majority of non-racer skiers.
After all it is free
After all it is free
FWIW I think that video (and I've seen it before), has a lot to do with that that thread I posted - 'dive down the hill', when he talks about projecting himself forward and across the skis surely that achieves that 'dive down the hill' scenario? Yes/No?
Anyhow, I've been digging out video recorders and SD cards and hope that FraserP will film me in VT on the EoSB. With 10.5hrs ( I booked some more up!!) under the gaze of an instructor I am hopeful of achieving improvement, which answers the observations posted in response to this thread above, as yes, I do want to improve.
I want to get to the stage where I become a skier someone might point out on a chair lift to a learner as 'someone that looks like they know what they are doing' rather than 'now, you don't want to end up looking at that do you?'. I'm hoping that I might be able to get some video footage on the first Saturday and then again after my mamoth batch of lessons (well OK, it's not everyday, but I will have never done a skiing holiday with so many lessons included) and maybe see some improvement
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
rob@rar,
You're the ski instructor, I'm just a punter.
Having said that the majority of learner skiers (I include myself as I'm always learning or at least trying to learn) are in the back seat. I suspect it's because they have a fear of falling down the hill and/or because they are instructed to do things like "stand on the ski". Megamum was standing on the ski, mission accomplished what more do you want ?
What I think instructors mean for carving on piste is - balance on the inside edge of your skis under the centre of your boot and roll the skis over from side to side, retracting and extending the inside leg while keeping the edge angles equal but constantly changing.
Suspect the main reason learners don't get it is because it's very hard to roll your skis over when your hips are behind your feet.
I tried this over the last couple of days on piste and especially for short turns, it better enabled me to leave two clear lines in the snow without getting caught in the backseat.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
DB, I agree with all that. If there is a movement or a stance issue which is providing a block to what you are trying to achieve then it needs to be fixed. But that is different from developing complex fore/aft movements at the same time as trying to develop cleanly carved turns.
I think it is important to focus on the fundamental movements (that affect 90% of the turn's effectiveness) rather than the subtle adjustments (that affects 10% of the turn). I like to KISS, as they say.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
, but maybe, just maybe....my turn shape has improved and perhaps I am not so 'stiff'?
) It was a great experience and really improved my confidence at speed and my overall enjoyment.
Respect Sister!
. I don't listen to music when I ski, but I did find myself humming Amarillo one day after a previous apres evening. If I ever did I am sure it would be rock music though. I ski with my kids and 