 Poster: A snowHead
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This isn't a 'what's best' thread, despite the title 
Me and the other half have always gone to France because we like the short flights, we've become familiar with being a tourist in France, plus we've enjoyed the large resorts that have either been self-contained or had brilliant links around resorts and to the satelite villages.
However, because we're a bit scuppered by the missus' work as to when we can book (we want to go 12/13th january but she can't submit her holiday request until 1st jan) I'm thinking that to avoid disappointment, we should broaden our search to other destinations and Austria seems to appeal.
I think they key things I want to know are how Austrian resorts compare to the French ones we've visited? Will we be forced to get buses here, there and everywhere just to get to lifts or are there plenty of resorts that have that self-contained feel... i.e you can access all the terrain from central points in resort?
I know it's a simplistic question and littered with flaws - there are probably just as many French resorts that are spread out (a'la Chamonix).
This is our background:
* Two seperate weeks in La Plagne (we didn't venture to Les Arcs) where we could move around freely on the central gondolas, going up the hill and pretty much always knowing we could ski back to Plagne Centre.
( One week in Les Gets - we just stayed on the local pass so did Morzine and LG, which again were well linked and nowhere ever seemed a million miles away from base.
* A week in L2A - as basic a resort as you can get in terms of links to the ski area (although we wouldn't go back, as we just didn't 'feel' it)
* A week in ADH - brilliant resort with enough hill directly accessible from the main gondolas that you were pretty much always boarding back down to base. Yes, there are the other villages like Auris and Vaujany that in reality are not places you want to miss the last lift, but take these out of the equation and there's still plenty of directly accessible terrain left.
* A week in the Espace Killy - yes, essentially it's two resorts linked by a chairlift and yes, you have to get bussed up to Le Fornet if you want first tracks, but I found EK to be an exception to my rule as we had a fabulous week with great company.
Anyway, I've been thumbing through the Whitelines resort supplement and the Austrian section is interesting - Innsbruck looks an amazing place but the ski areas are set apart; Mayrhofen looks like an extensive area but it looks like you have to take lots of Gondolas just to get to the ski area, with no 'ski-in, ski-out'; Ischgl looks very, very big but I'm struggling to actually fathom the scale of the set-up; Saalbach/Hinterglimm looks very much like a Espace Killy with several peaks close together with good links; Lech/Zurs/St Anton look massive again but spread out...
As you can see, I'm only going on what I've seen in a supplement and by browsing some piste maps. Plus there are tonnes more resorts I've yet to even take into account.
Basically, we want ski-in/ski-out, mainly reds and blues, mainly chairlifts/gondolas, plus we're liking the sound of Austria being a bit of an apres hotbed.
You'll probably roll your eyes at my naivety but I'm just trying to get as much of a picture as possible of what is on offer before we just settle for the last-minute dregs in France
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Go to Saalbach or Ischgl. Book your accommodation close to the gondola and you will be fine without buses. Apres is brilliant.
In fact you will find more options with TO in Saalbach, which is cheaper as well.
The flight won't be much longer but the transfer is usually quick and easy. Lifts are very modern. Many great runs.
It is up to 2000mtr, but usually very good snow, I guess it might be similar to Les Gets height.
It will be easy to get around.
I loved it.
Ischgl is better to DIY and it is quite pricy by Austrian standards.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Sun 18-11-12 23:49; edited 2 times in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Again, Saalbach or Ischgl. No need to take a bus (same in the majority of resorts). You can access all the terrain at either from central lifts, though you'll have to travel lots on skis to get to all of it. The only place I've skied in France was the PdS, and didn't think it was all that different in 'style/layout' than a typical Austrian resort, though it had a much less efficient lift system. I doubt there are all that many differences between most French and Austrian resorts tbh.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Austria has the full range of resorts as does France. Austria seems (to me) to be cheaper. Don't exclude Italy especially the Dolomites. My personal choice for your skiing (as set out by you) is Kronplatz but hat is mostly DIY but it is easier to DIY than you might hink
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+1 Saalbach, i found Austria a few years ago after thinking les arcs was the best thing since sliced bread, I just loved the size of les arcs and ski in ski out after starting my ski life in chamonix, which aside of a super town was so spread out and buses
Austria is just so much cheaper and après at a different level (if that's your cup of tea, clearly not literally !)
Done obertauren a few times which is good ski in ski out and Alpbach which is a fantastic picturesque village, but not ski in/ski out, tried Saalbach twice last yr for the first time and already booked 20 days (so far ) this year
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I haven't got the actual hands-on experience yet, but do have similar circumstances. The only dates available for our group this year are in French school hols, and as some are already booked to go to Colfosco in Jan, we've opted for Austria too. Our previous experience is fairly similar to yours - Espace Killy, Paradiski, PdS etc, so I asked on here and was advised to look as Ischgl, Mayrhofen and St Anton. We've booked Ischgl, and one thing in it's favour is that it's all lift linked.
But +1 for the Dolomites too. Great value for money, very good hot choc and cakes available on the slopes, and if you pick somewhere where you can get into the Sella Ronda, it's all linked together rather nicely. Rather scenic too, if that's your thing.
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Scarlet, You've see the light. Its a great place.
Specialman, Ischgl's big but not that big, 238 km so less than EK. Mainly reds and blues, superb lift system, no need for a bus, great apres.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I'm interested in the comment
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Me and the other half have always gone to France because we like the short flights
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It's only 2hrs to Zurich or Munich from Manchester and about 2.5 hours to Innsbruck. Just as quick as to GVA. Great skiing to be had from several resorts close to these airports.
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For me Austria is a completely different experience to France. No soulless tower blocks, charmless resorts and motorway service station style mountain huts. Ski-in/out is less common because the resorts are actually proper working towns rather than manufactured tourist stations, but it is possible if you choose your hotel carefully. Accommodation is normally hotels and pensions to suit all budgets, and the ambience is friendly. Personally I don't mind a bit of a walk in après boots taking in some of the atmosphere and maybe a beer or two. I've yet to find an Austria resort that doesn't have heated equipment lockers at the lift base station. Flight times are usually around 2 hours to Salzburg, Innsbruck or Munich from the Midlands. Oh, and the skiing is fantastic too, but hey if people would rather sleep 6 to a room in a 60s concrete eyesore to get the 'best' skiing, let them have it... 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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France. No soulless tower blocks, charmless resorts and motorway service station style mountain huts.
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Thats a bit like saying the scummy end of Nottingham is typical of every town in the UK.
Of course France has purpose built ski resorts where convenience to the piste is the overiding factor in all things but of the 400+resorts only a handful are purpose built, most are working villages.
Please don't slur an entire countries resorts based on your minimal sample from over 400 ski resorts.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Austria haas some great Ski Areas,
Saalbach - hinterglemm, I believe this area is the 2nd biggest tourist attraction in Austria(Vienna 1st). Easy skiing, 2 interesting black runs, all runs lead down to valley floor. Can get busy during peak holiday periods,
Ischgl - One of my favorites, 238Km of runns, mainly intermediate, generallt a good snow record, ski into switzerland, also spend a day in Galtur.
Serfaus - Fiss - little known to the uk skier about 180km, some interesting black runs, excellent modern lift system. love the place
St Anton - one of the classics, good area, lends itself to inrermediate and above, get a guide for a day, Apres like no where else on earth..
Lech - Zurs - a little pricey but a great intermediate area, everything from memory leads back to valley floor, good off poiste here.
Obertauern - very snow sure, intermediate area, all runs lead down to vally floor, nothing too challenging here.
Obergugl - Hoch Gurgl - Brit intermediate heaven, some good fun to be had with a guide, Take the bus to Solden fro a day.
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Boredsurfing, + 1. No point to generalise. Plenty of nice villages and small restaurants in France as well.
Saying this Austria is my favourite spot.
Bob, Serfaus with recent additions claim 200km now. Hope to visit soon.
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You know it makes sense.
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Austria is by far my favourite too....
And my kids.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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We love Austria and out of the places we have been I would definitely recommend St Anton, Obergurgl and Selva (though this is Italy you fly into Innsbruck for here), we did use a bus to link upto Lech after skiing on pisted runs as far across as we could, but there is lots of skiing you can do without that. When we were in Selva we didn't use a ski bus at all and Obergurgl once because we were over hochgurgl side when I feel and (I later discovered) ruptured my ACL.
Selva and St Anton both have a number of catered chalet options (how we have stayed in those resorts)
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Poster: A snowHead
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Specialman,
Hi, you've got over 2000 posts under your belt now but you haven't done Austria ????
I think you've got to get out of your comfort zone of Tartiflet and go for a bit of Tyrolergrosti (please excuse my spelling .. I'm sure someone will pull me up on it)
From the list of French resorts you've mentioned you're going to love just about anywhere in Austria.
Don't get too hung up on the "Ski-n-Ski out" ... you can get it in ...
Hoch Solden comes to mind,
Zug (up the Lech valley)
But you may find these tiny mountain villages too small or everyone has gone to bed at 10pm.
I think the true Austrian experience is better if don't go for the head-liners like St Anton, Ischgl, Mayerhoffen even Kitzbuhel they are all a bit international (they are still very good though)
I think just about anywhere you find in the regular brochures ... except St Wolfgang
(Its not a ski resort at all ... the beginners slopes are 1/2 hour bus ride and the intermediates 1 hour)
Its where they stick you on the "allocation on arrival" hols. But it still has its advantages.
I'm sure you will have picked up on the fact the altitude is not everything, and you will have a better time skiing down some pine scented warm trail with the smell of goulash soup wafting out of a mountain hut rather than freezing in the wind on top of a glacier with 100,000 years of snow to just cover the rocks.
Enjoy!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Specialman, Definitely time to give Austria a go!
I'm interested what you define as 'ski-in, ski-out', do you just mean you don't want to get on a bus to access the piste, or do you literally want to be able to ski directly in/out of your door? We used to get hung up on the later, but in hindsight, it's really not a big thing - you normally have to stop at a lift pretty soon anyway. As others above have said, you can get plenty of accommodation in Austria that's only a short walk from the lift.
You mention liking 'short flights' and as others have already said the flights to Austria are really not that much different - however the transfers are quite often shorter in Austria.
You mention:
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Mayrhofen looks like an extensive area but it looks like you have to take lots of Gondolas just to get to the ski area, with no 'ski-in, ski-out'
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The Mayrhofen area is extensive, and from the town you need to take one gondola to get up the mountain (a choice of 2, one for each side). If snow is OK you can ski back down, but otherwise downloading really isn't a big deal. There can be a bit of a queue at ski-school start time (true pretty much anywhere!), but you're not looking at peak season, so it will be minimal anyway. Lift is a walk or v. short bus ride from the accommodation - choose carefully and it can be a v. short walk. I did find myself getting a bus back end of day sometimes, but only because I chose to venture further afield, and it was nice not to have to worry about missing the last lift back, knowing I could ski down to the valley elsewhere then get a bus.
When you say Lech/Zurs/St. Anton are spread out, I suppose in that Lech/Zurs is a separate area, and there are two 'sides' to St. Anton. For Lech/Zurs it's a short bus trip, but a small price to have the option of skiing a second great area. Once in Lech/Zurs everything is well linked. Between the sides of St. Anton, really no different than moving around any resort, ski down one side, walk across to the lift, go up the other, though you can easily spend a full day on one side without the need to swap.
If you are open to DIY rather than TO, the Ski Amade region is worth a look too.
I ski both France and Austria without favouritism, and would encourage you to break your comfort zone - you won't regret it. I (and my family) do greatly prefer the mountain food in Austria - though do be prepared that many mountain restaurants won't take cards, so carry cash (not that I've learnt that the hard way more than once  )
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Specialman, Whilst I agree that many of the big Austrian ski areas are likely to be suitable, in case you decide to go with the recommendations of Saalbach, we have friends who have just bought an apartment there and (as of yesterday) and have kindly offered to let us use it for the entire season; consequently we suddenly and unexpectedly have accommodation available that may well suit you. PM me if this might be of interest. We're 'ski-in ski-out', directly opposite a main gondola lift and chairlift, and several pistes lead back to within 20 yards of our doorstep. The village centre is a stone's throw away.
The 200 km ski area is essentially a fully interlinked 'intermediate's paradise' and is apportioned between 30% beginners pistes, 60% intermediates (blues/reds) and 10% advanced (essentially 6 blacks). Like some of the French resorts you have enjoyed, it has pistes that descend to the village (at least six directly back to the village centre), and you can plan day-long itineraries without doing the same piste twice. The resort is recorded as having the highest proportion of fast lifts in the world, and it is famed for its '5 star' apres-ski.
The transfer time is about 1 hour 15mins, and there are several easy options ranging from the local bus to an 8 times a day shuttle service or a private taxi. I have put together a comprehensive 16 page guide, which I'm happy to send to anyone who may find it useful.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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My wife and I are off to Austria again (Bad Hofgastein) after a 5 year stint of hitting Italy. Been to Courmayer, Livigno, Milky Way (Sestriere & Sauze) , La Thuile, Passo Tonale, Sella Ronda, Pila , Madonna di Campiglio, Cervinia. I thoroughly recommend Italy, both for the friendliness and cost over France. That said Austria for me is my favorite ski country with excellent apres, spas and brilliant, varied resorts and runs. Be it full on runs like the Hannenkahm red in Kitz or the Harakiri in Mayrhofen, to real gentle resorts like St. Johann in Tirol/ Fieberbrunn. Really looking forwards to hitting Dorf/ Bad Hof and Gastein areas again this coming Jan. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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France would be better for Goldsmith (if he still went skiing).
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| DB wrote: |
| France would be better for Goldsmith (if he still went skiing). |
Non- JagerMeister 
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He could do a room share with Victor Meldrew. "One foot in La Grave"
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Just coming to the end of my 4th and last trip of the season to Saalbach-Hinterglemm. I stay in Viehhofen (drive out / ski in!) which is further down the valley so convenient also for Zell am See. I have always preferred Austria to France for the ambience, scenery and atmosphere and if ski-in ski-out is limited you can still avoid buses by just renting a car. The drive from Salzburg is a piece of cake, there are 4 car parks at the Schoneleitenbahn, 5 car parks at the Schmittentahl and if they're full there are vast car parks at the Areitbahn also serving Schmittenhohe.
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