 Poster: A snowHead
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I'm thinking about taking wife (who's never skied) and 3.5 year old (who has also never skied before) somewhere next January. Now my toddler is dead keen on the idea of skiing and would be most dissapointed to go somewhere where she couldn't at least have a bit of a go at it. Any personal recomendations of where is good and where is bad for teaching littl'uns would help me make a good choice (hopefully). Would also be good if the same place did good adult lessons. Should we sort the lessons out ourselves or go with someone like Esprit?
Snowheads please rise to the challenge!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Chris, I think La Rosiere 1850 is pretty good for kids and not just because that's where our chalet is located. Ski Esprit have a number of chalets in the village. Mark Hunter has stayed with them with his kids. The BBC hoilday programme did a review of La Rosiere and rated it one of the top ten family resorts, also from our own experience all of our guests with young kids have been very happy. Have a look at www.larosiere.net for details.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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3.5 is pretty young to get kids on skis in any meaningful way at all. We took a 3 yr old a couple of years ago and just stuck some skis on him and had a couple of 30 minute goes on a gentle kids area in Avoriaz. I don't think Esprit do lessons for kids that young (?) though they were good with the same child (then 4.5) this spring.
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I took my (just) 4 yr old to Passo Tonale in March. He loved it and was skiing within 6 hrs of lessons (they took the babes from 3 yrs in Italy)...... adequately able to negotiate blues on his own, snow plough etc. I was amazed that they didnt stop in the little child play area (for £75 for the week, thats what I was expecting) but ventured onto the same slopes as we were skiing!
We just booked him into ski school in Lapland next March and he is already talking about it.
The Germans we met in Italy had their daughter on skis at 18 months and she beat me down a fast red at only 3 yrs old. How totally mortifying.
Fx
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Les Galopins, the kindergarten take babies from 18mths old and certainly some of the little tots I've seen, couldn't be more than 3 yrs old, they get playing in their own little snow-park and under 5yrs old don't have to have a lift pass.
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My daughter started at exactly 3.5. At that age kids want to do lots of things, and skiing should be just part of the mix. It's too young for regular ski school, so you need specialised daycare with some on-snow time.
That said, a child of that age should love an hour, or maybe two, of skiing on very gentle slopes with a long run-out.
On multiple recommendations I took my family to the Hotel la Cachette, Arc 1600 (Les Arcs), where there's a specialised creche and ski school, generous-sized family rooms with terraces and lots of young children. It's very practical, because everything starts and ends in the hotel complex itself. You could go there on the snowtrains from London or Paris, which stop at Bourg St Maurice. From there you zip up to the resort in 7 mins on the funicular. The hotel has brilliant food and it's good value - at least that was our experience some years ago.
Here's some info.about it from ifyouski.com I think you can book it through Erna Low, too, who we used.
We had a very contrasting experience in the major Austrian resort of Saalbach, which didn't even have a kindergarten at the time. The French seem to really understand childcare so I guess most French family resorts have good arrangements, and David Last's idea is worth a look too. It's best to avoid major resorts with small children - you need everything close at hand.
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Chris Reed, have you thought carefully about January. It can be bitterly cold and may just put both of your beloveds off the sport. So sunny, snowsure, small. http://www.skiesprit.com/ are a very good family orientated operator. http://www.familyski.co.uk/ did us proud, blending ski lessons into snow play for the youngsters, and small accessible resorts but enough to keep more piste hungry parents entertained. 
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It's a good point. I've always taken the kids skiing in mid-April for sun and mildness.
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andora has some fantastic ski schools and is meant to be fantastic for beginers i've never been but it has been recomended to me by a lot of people and i plan to go at christmas with two non skiers for that reason
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Chris Reed, I'll recomend Wengen, they will probably take the 3.5 year old but only if she's a reasonable size normally I think they suggest 4 years is a good starting age, the Beginners slopes are right in the middle of the village, plus from memory there's also a kindergarten and you can get details of qualified baby sitters from the tourist office there, they teach adults and children on the same beginners slopes (quite a big area so they don't get to close to each other) plus there's plenty of easy runs in the area as they gain experiencs, even an easy run back to the village which is always useful, the scenery is great and most of the locals speak english, certainly many of the instructors do, It may be wise to avoid the area from the 14th to the 16th of January as the International Ski Races are on during that time and many of the hotels get a bit packed and noisy.
Roughly speaking the area has about 210km of pistes with 35% easy 55%Intermediate and 10% difficult, also lots of tobogan runs which kids seem to love
The disadvantage with Wengen is its distance from the main airports of about 4 hours, however you may find that one or more of the tour ops will do a direct flight to Bern airport and coach transfer which is only 1 hour away
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Thanks everyone. Some good pointers especially about time of year. I absolutely loved going in April to La Plagne.
I am under no illusion that she'll be doing anything other than "playing in the snow". Mind you she is pretty big for her age (in 4-5 year old clothes and only just 3) can wizz on her bike and on the tag-along bike (it's a kiddies trailer tandom), walks miles, will climb everything and has walked about on snow on strap-on plastic ski (I know nausiating proud parent!!!!). What I hope for is a couple of hours of ski/play etc for the morning and then we'd take it in turns to entertain in the afternoon.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Chris Reed, given what you've just said Wengen would be just right, from what I've seen they really make learning to ski fun for the youngest of the kids, I'd suggest the last week in January, it's a quiet time with usually some pretty good snow and cheaper hotel prices if you have a look on my website The Jungfrau Region in the villages section you will find a picture of the bigger of the nursery slopes behind the ice rink, the junior slope is out of shot to the left
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From our own experience, Ski Esprit were the best, but each family situation is different and I don't remember whether they would actually organise lessons for your 3.5 daughter - they didn't for ours (at the same age), but then we probably didn't ask either.
We have also used the panda club in Argentiere, which others have raved about, and while it didn't work for my daughters, I could see that they might well be appropriate for you. They do a minibus shuttle service to/from Chamonix, but we found it easier to take the kids to Argentiere ourselves. The best thing would be to be based in Argentiere. There are some nice gentle slopes along the valley at Le Tour, if you have other beginners in the group.
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You know it makes sense.
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Chris Reed, lots of good comments here, but I think it important to tease out what are the needs of your daughter (no longer a toddler ) in learning to ski and having a fun time in the resort, and what are your needs as parents who want to ski but know their daughter is happy.
Your daughter couldn't care one jot about the resort, and unless it's La Grave really anywhere will do. Her concerns are "where is mummy and daddy" and "who are all these nasty strangers?".
You want good runs to whizz down, but also need to know your daughter is enjoying herself and hopefully learning to ski.
A lot depends on her character and experience so far of non-parental childcare.
Angela (ex-wife) and I never let children get in the way of skiing. They came with us even when only a few months old and still being breast fed. Rosie learnt to ski at 4 yrs 2 months (she's now 15) and Tom learn at 3 yrs 4 months (now 12 yrs). They both love skiing, and now go far faster than I do.
So my advice is
1. Make sure she doesn't feel abandoned. Resist dropping her off at a strange "nursery". Have the childcare in the hotel/chalet. Ideal is granny or your own nanny. If going with Ski Eprit make sure the nursery is based in your chalet. Your child will feel secure in "her house" and you will not lose valuable time traipsing off to the nursery.
2. Private lessons not ski school. Ideally your instructor comes to the chalet or hotel and then brings your daughter back.
3. Skiing is the be-all-and-end-all for you. Not so with your daughter. She might like to do a bit of skiing with you, but she will also want to make snowmen, have snowball fights, go sledging, sit and read, draw, play with her toys; so accept you will not be skiing from dawn to dusk, and get a good pair of "moon-boots".
4. Your daughter won’t miss you if she is having fun. The best way is to have lots of other English speaking children to play with, while experienced and enthusiastic “nannies” hover around as referees and nose-wipers.
A good child-care company knows that a happy child makes for happy parents, and happy parents come back.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I spoke to an instructor in La Plagne when we put our 4yr old into ski school a few yrs ago. He said that if it was a once a yr thing, then 6yr old was a good age to learn.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Chris Reed, We took our 5 and 6 year old to La Rosiere last year for the first time. The 5 year old daughter was really only just old enough to have the strength in her legs. We are looking forward to the end of January next year immensly. Having skied all over Europe for the last 20 years have got to say we were very impressed with La Ros and are going back there in next year. We pick the first week in February to escape the half term blues, (It helps if your kids headmaster is a skiing nut). The ESF instructors in La Ros are fantastic with the children. Jonpim, 's advice is spot on.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The best place for you 3.5 year old to start will be your nearest artificial slope (Plastic/Snow)......................
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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ski, welcome, and a good suggestion. Also, take them back to the artificial slope before next season. A year is an eternity for a young child. They will have forgotten everything. So, though Jim or Jane was whizzing down in true bomber-snow-plough style last season, for the first day they will be complete beginners again. Then suddenly it will all come back in a rush, and just as you are settling down to a nice relaxing coffee, they will be off down the nearest red run.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I think the age slopes will take varies, but, as long as the slope has boots small enough that shouldn't be a problem.
Do expect to book a lesson, however, most slopes do not allow instruction other than from their own staff. Also try sledging - great fun and mostly harmless.
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ski, I think that this is a good idea. My local slope seem to do morning lessons on the dry slope for 3-year old plus. This might be a good way of deciding what we would do in resort or decide to defer the idea until she is a bit older.
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Chris Reed, For our 5 and 6 year old last year the local dry slope gave a half hour lesson which was as much as they could do before getting tired. Incidentaly we started out at the tamworth snowdome and were disappointed with the lessons as the groups were mixed ability and the slope was ice as opposed to snow.. We got a private lesson locally for half the tamworth price. definately better for the kids and better value. Its also easier to satnd up on the dry slope than it is on the ice! Our kids defiantely enjoyed the sledging on the little slope after.
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Chris Reed, As a keen skier myself, I couldn't wait to get my son on skis. However, I was well aware that, if he hated it.....I would be doomed to have a miserable life.
I asked a ski instructor who specialises in young children at Flaine to take my son and evaluate him. He was 2 and a half. Her name is Christine and she is based at the ESF at Flaine Forum. There are two teachers there that only teach 3 and 4 year olds - Christine and Colette. Both fantastic. But, of course, you will be paying for private lessons.
After deciding that my lad was "ready", I took him to the childcare/ski school at Les Contamines.
The place is fabulous! The nursery takes care of them all day providing meals and the ESF instructors arrive at the nursery in the morning or afternoon for tuition for 2 hours. After that, the kids are exhausted.
It is called La Galipette.
The place is also open seven days a week. Quite a rare thing! There are no skiing lessons on Saturday but you can pay for private tuition and the instructor will pick up the child from the nursery.
I have been to many of the creche/ski school facilities for small kids in the Geneva area and this is by far the best. If you need numbers send me a PM.
Thankfully my lad is now four, with two seaons under his belt and his "premier Etoile" (ah..the proud mother). He informs me that he wishes to snowboard this year.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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sparish, Thanks for that. Les Contamines is not very common in UK travel brocures but it could be organised! It's possible that we'd be going with another family so private lessons for two children might work out OK and affordable. Despite the minimalist architecture and rather poor quality accomodation on my many visits to Flaine I've always thought that Flaine looks like a great place for children to learn to ski in. Do you have any experience of the snow gardens in Flaine?
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Can't help with recommendations in Europe, I'm afraid, but I agree with those saying that 3.5 is a bit young for anything other than a taster. Our kids were just 4 when they first skied, and about half an hour twice a day was more than enough (they were jet lagged, but I don't think that they could have done much more in Europe at that age). They didn't start doing a full ski school day until they were 6.
I also agree that somewhere where they run a kindergarten with the option of one or two short lessons a day is the best bet, or perhaps one of the holiday companies which throws in nannies (Ski Esprit, for example). Several (most?) N.American resorts do the kindergarten ski arrangement, and N.America is a great place for kids to learn.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I'm not enough of an expert to recommend one resort over another - I'm sure that many would be perfect for you. But, based on my family's experience, here are some thought to help you in your planning.
1. Be flexible. Make sure that you have an alternative childcare solution if your daughter finds that she hates being outside in the cold.
2. Don't expect her to ski for much more than an hour a day, split into two sessions.
3. Stay as close to the ski school and childcare as you can possibly afford. A 5 minute walk for an adult can occupy the best part of a morning with a tired kid facing a snow drift whilst wearing ski boots.
4. Don't rely on local nurseries or playgroups unless you know there'll be plenty of English speaking kids and adults there. I've heard several stories of kids having a miserable time, being unable to communicate to any of their peers.
5. Esprit is excellent, but doesn't teach kids to ski at 3.5 - they do snow play instead.
6. Find a resort with a magic carpet lift. Surprisingly, not all have them.
7. Richmond is right about N America having many advantages, not least price - a self-organised trip to the Rockies might be significantly cheaper than a full price holiday with Esprit. However, jetlag will disrupt sleeping patterns (= tantrums) and, in my experience, American Ski Schools are very quick to page parents off the mountain should a tantrum start.
8. Getting a child to ski at 3.5 is a bit risky. Some kids take to it well, but others lack co-ordination and strength and hate the experience.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Esprit seems to specialise in this area - www.esprit-holidays.co.uk
Good reports from Les Arc 1800 - nearly all ski instructors spoke english, new area built at Aarc 1800 with moving carpet lifts, a sledging track, and a climbing wall. Also Mauve discovery pistes at 1800 and 1600 for children to find out about flora and fauna of the alps. 
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Only just seen this thread and as David@Trax suggested much earlier, do consider La Rosiere (South facing, so ideal for children experiencing their first "cold" holiday). We took out 4 (just) year old daughter and stayed at Le Braconnier with Ski Esprit. The small chalet/hotel is ski in/out and right by the nursery slopes where the young ones have their lessons. The child care was superb and our daughter spent a very happy week learning to ski - eventually regularly doing half a blue run with kids moe than twice her age! The childcare was also based in the chalet, which was cosy and inviting.
Mainly, the ski lessons were in the morning, then lunch, then snow play in the afternoon - (if conditions allow), then tea and then return to skied out parents at about 5.30. We went back for a second trip and the little one couldn't wait to get back on those slopes, so I guess it couldn't have been too bad.
From you wife's point of view, the resort is excellent for beginners also, and there are some good runs for more experienced skiers, not too mention the proximity of La Thuile.
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You know it makes sense.
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We will be taking our 3.5 year old daughter to La Tania in March. She's been coming with us since she was born at least once if not twice a year. Our formula for a successful family ski holdiay has now crystalised as:-
1. We have always done chalet holidays and we takeover the whole chalet so we don't need to worry about the feelings, needs of other guests. Can determine when childrens tea will be and not need to worry about where they are at any time.
2. We now always use a company called Skibeat, having tried a number of others (Ski Peak, Family Ski, independent etc) but found skibeat to be the most consistent and in line with our needs.
3. SKibeat always uses english nannies that are english qualified and have their own creche. The nannies have always been very good and always taken the children out at least once in the day for sledging etc. We also try to get the chalet that is in the same building as the creche. No faffing with clothes and you can drop all your stuff off before picking them up and may be able to access the toys and stuff in the creche in the evening.
4. We travel with roughly the same families each year. This year it will be 8 adults and six kids (3 three year olds. a four, five and six year old as well). While it can be tiring and noisey, we've found that a number of similar age children always play together and are happy to go to the creche because they already know somebody. The parents also have similar views on childrens care we've found that tension can rise considerably if childrens sleep times are incompatible and especially if some parents are less hands on then others. I have been on holidays before where I felt like I was providing a post five p.m. child care service.
5. On ski school, our daughter while bigger than average (over a metre on her third birthday) is not particlaury rufty tufty so she (and the other three year olds) will be in creche all day. We will have however book one or two one hour group lessons for the three of them to play on the skis. La Tania has a very good English speaking ski school (Magic in Motion) that some of our group used last year for the three year olds. The other children will be in ski school in the morning and be picked up and looked after by the nannies in the afternoon.
6. On choosing the resort I 'd go by the company and child care first and then look for as short a transfer as possible. the most unpleasnat part of any journey with children is the bus journey where they are sick, need to go to the loo etc when all you wnat to do is sleep. A resort with gondalas is better than chairs so you can at leats take them up the mountain for lunch. Chairs and little people just scare me.
7. march or April is the best time. It needs to be warm enough for them to enjoy being outside for extended times. They don't need good snow, artificial will be fine for an hour on the beginners slopes.
8. Finally and most importantly if they don't want to ski don't make them. If they end up hating skiing thats your holidays messed up for years.
This seems to have been a bit longer message than I expected and sounds somewhat prescriptive but its taken ten years to develop and is not nearly as rigid as it sounds.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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ashton parker, Jonny Jones, you both give excellent and complimentary advice: much better than most of the rubbish that will appear in various articles over the coming weeks.
And of all the points made I would highlight Jonny Jones point 2. and ashton parker point 8. as the most important.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Reading Chris Bs reports there seems to be another important point in skiing young. He found that about half an hour was enough for his 5 yr old before getting tired. It's not just adults that need to get fit to ski, it is tinies as well. My kids have always skied all day, Sam was 4 on his first holiday and we skied from the minute the lifts opened till they closed. Friends also find their kids can ski all day but they ski every week on plastic for 2 hours and also swim and ride bikes etc.
It's really worth working on stamina with young kids before skiing, as it's really hard work if they are tired. For a couple of months before the holiday increase their walking distances, including a few long hikes (the Malverns are fun and achievable from about 2 1/2 for most kids), extra swimming, more running around the garden, bikes etc. Try something like the ski show, staying all day, or a day out exploring London.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Half an hour on plastic for a lesson before you go, 2 or 3 hours on snow while you are there before lunch, a couple after. Should be better this year, Charles is 7 and plays football every Saturday and Victoria will be 6.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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For a 3,5 J old I'd recommend a ski kindergarten in Austria, on the Montafon area for example. They play and ski with the kids in snow, there is a moving carpet to get uphill again, loads of fun for the little. And as soon as they realize how to control speed with a pice of piza (we called it a snowplough, now it is "Pizzaschnitte") they get a warning west and off they go to the training runs. First pull uphill on a moving rope, then on a pulling lift (I call it a "plate lift", but I am German, you know). Then in addition they go out and use chairlifts - always an adult skier and a kid. Yes, it can happen to you to carry another jungster with you upwards.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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All,
Interesting reading, we are off to St. Anton in March, First time back on snow for 5 years (another story) for me. Son will be 3years and 11 months and is booked in for Skisprites (or somesuch) with Esprit-Ski. Anyone had any experience with Kids at St. Anton ?
Cheers
Simon
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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We are taking a just 4 year old to La Rosiere just after Christmas.
Childcare will be split between us (grandparents) in the morning while Mum goes to school, then Mum in the afternoon while we go and play. We really have no need for a creche, and wouldn't want to 'shunt' him off anyway, but he may want to play for an hour or two in the little ESF snow garden thing. Does anybody know what their view is of that - could we just turn up, pay and play for a morning as and when? Any views on the plan?
I am not very secretly hoping that he will love it, of course, and that next year he and his Mum will get competent to come out on easy runs with us.
DJ
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DJ, I don't believe it would be possible. We find that Les Galopins insist on pre-booking and parents have to supply a medical certificate, no contagious illnesses etc. If you're out there for New Years week, and you haven't booked already then you could find you can't get in.
The tele no of Les Galopins is 0033 4 7906 89 67.
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Esprit actually takes chidren from 3 yers old in their spritelets ski classes, as long as they are "out of nappies". Some good late deals on their website. La Ros perfect for kids, but not next week!! (not opening on time.)
Ours learnt to ski in Ros 9as did I!), and my 11 yr old has insisted on boarding lessons this time, after one taster session - scary!
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Our little one also properly learnt to ski in La Ros. She was just 4 and has had 2 weeks there now and is quite happy on the drags and the blue that runs down to the village.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I would reccomend getting some lessons at a dry slope first. Where do you live?
Im a ski and snowboard instructor at the plymouth dry slope and teach 3.5 - 8 year olds on a regular basis.
We do lessons for 45 minutes with groups of kids up to 6.
If you want any tips on skiing with young children give me a shout, Ill be happy to help. Oh and an edgie wedgie (get from snowandrock.com) is all youll need to get them snowploughing.
good luck!
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Thanks all.
We are going out on 28th (just after it snows???) and there until the 7th. Slightly odd dates, but others are involved - I didn't really want to lose the weekend but hey-ho. Anyway, not a package, so can't use Esprit.
I normally always tell people to go dry slope first, to avoid wasting time on the snow learning. Unfortunately grandson lives miles away in Wilts, and in this case we are hoping to subtly brainwash him into skiing by not making a big issue of it. I have also been told not to impose my wants on a four year old child, who may only want to play. Unfair - I only want to play!
If he expresses a desire to try it I will try to get him an hour with a proper instructor so as not to get it wrong, but he might resist that, so any hints & tips are welcome (For guidance I am competent on most pistes; messy on bumps; hilarious to watch, apparently, even 2 foot off piste).
DJ
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FAQ
