What motivates / influneces you to buy specific brands / gear - shops, deals, PR, this forum?

A snowHead

Thought I'd keep this thread in Off Piste as did not want to open it up to everyone, as most on here within Off Piste will have a a fairly grounded POV on this based on their experience over more than a couple of weeks.

Following on from the Ski touring Boots, your 2 pence worth please thread which saw the usual stuff with everyone fighting their corner, what motivates you to but a particular item of kit, or stick to one brand?

I've been reasonably involved with various brands in another sports industry and have friends both in the distribution, retail and editorial sectors, in fact there is often a wintersports crossover especially in the retail side

Over the years I've seen over hyped products come and go, and have been suckered into following what I've been told I should buy etc

My buying habits over the years have changed, and though I still like a deal, especially with what the internet offers and sites like sports pursuit, I'm probably now more selective on what I use / wear than previously.

I know how a distributor will push a brand, and how they will pressurise the retailer who in turn will mug the poor unsuspecting punter.

And in these hard times as everyone seeks to make a living certain boundaries are often crossed with people being sold gear they do not need.

Within this forum there is often very good advice and people can be passionate about a product / brand. Witness CH20 who obviously knows what he talks about and might well be that rarity an honest retailer not out to make a fast buck.

I've known top UK champs slag off brands only to then sign to them the following year and then sing their praises, so I am cynical too of top sponsored athletes.

What about magazine reviews, all too often they are beholden to the advertising dollar, it always amazes me in the pages of Fall Line you never see RAB gear mentioned?

Then you see the half page test where some editorial guy has been on a freeby / jollie and sings the praises of that product?

And with tests, and the same for anyone testing something on a one off basis, the ski, the boot, the board, the sail / kite will all handle differently depending on the conditions at the time, so may people arrive at a POV based on very limited experience. One major brand I know will not provide mags with products to test as he thinks they don't know how to test the sails across a range of environments.

And I don't buy that mag but get it handed down to me when I hand over my cycling mags to my mate. To me they just make good bog reading Smile

The one person that influences me, and I've been guilty of this over the past 12 or so years is a certain guide I know.

My logic is if it's good enough for him then I should be ok. And the logic is reversed, he looks to me for what windsurf gear to use, though as yet can't get him into kites, hopefully when he sees me going up the hill on one he might see the advantage Smile

I do think though that for most it's price driven, if there's a boot or ski at £x and there's a similar ski / boot but at £x minus 25% then most would go for that, and why not, is that extra 25% just a hype tag?

A snowHead

Everyone I meet buys what I tell them. Laughing

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I bought my boots after short listing a few and then going and trying them on. Brands were from a range of manufacturers except Garmont because their current line up sucks balls. Actual choice was dictated by availability, fit and my ability to visit a bootfitter outside of Iceland.

For general kit I tend to trust people on forums like this, TGR and obviously people I know in real life. Mostly I go fondle stuff in the shop after it being really recommended. I don't bother reading magazine reviews. Mostly when I buy something I have an idea of what I want it for so it's pretty easy to get something suitable. I'll be brand loyal when that brand really impresses me. Dynafit bindings, Black Diamond gloves and poles and Norrona in general are current examples.

I wouldn't buy anything because someone else used it without hearing their rationale for it. Plenty of people use stuff they dislike just because they happen to have it handy or got it for nothing.

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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

mishmash, no signature, cos if I wanna tell a joke about a dead footballer then I won't have hooligans turning up at my door threatening my family. Cool

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yes withwhat passes for comment around I totally get that. and why not!!

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

mishmash, swing into Cham, google until your sole is happy, go there and buy what they tell you, that way you can forget all this "buy what I bought, cos I swallowed all the marketing bullshite and want someone to make me feel less stupid by doing the same." Unless your thinking of buying a Cochise or a S series ski in which case you'll be fine and dandy on your own! wink

After all it is free

Gotcha.As it happens....
wink

Influences vary depending on the sport and the kit.
When it comes to rock climbing and mountaineering it's worth looking around the crag, very few decent climbers buy rubbish kit, probably because their life depends on it. Reviews in mags can be useful and of course talking with climbing mates.
Bikes, I tend to stick with what I've found to be good, eg bought a Specialized years ago, loved it and found they never let me down.
Snowboarding, read lots of reviews, read the tech spec, get myself educated, including advice on SHs, not bought any duff kit yet, I guess there's a lot of crossover with winter mountaineering too.
Price doesn't figure too much, I'd rather spend extra on good kit than pay twice for rubbish. Interestingly my OH bought a cheap Lidl helmet years ago, I paid over the odds for a decent one. I'm still dead happy, she got a new one this year cos she hated the cheap one.

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Weathercam,

Once i find a brand I like( trust) I will " drop my guard" in other words I grant them a monopoly eg Arcteryx.
The kit is wickedly expensive but lasts forever so I take the view that I'm getting very good product but buy very infrequently. Before I bought any of their kit first time I researched it as much as I could by checking it out, borrowing some and forums like this. When I buy a new Arcteryx product now I don't research it at well as I did first time round which is why my current jacket doesn't zip up around the neck as comfortably as I would like it too. That probably won't put me off but I will go back to doing a bit more research next time I purchase.

However what often happens is we are very tempted to short cut the research and seek " social proof" by asking someone who we assume has the inside knowledge , like asking a guide or someone we think has authority. We also assume that they, or someone they know, has already done the detailed research. If you do ask someone who has the correct information to be able to make a sound recommendation of a product you have saved yourself a lot of work. Some years ago i realised my whole livelihood is underpinned by social proof. When someone in my locality has a knee problem if they ask around they will fortunately often end up speaking to one of my old patients( I've seen approx 15,000 of them) I am not allowed to bribe previous patients so generally that source is trusted. The danger with seeking social proof is that we assume they are not biased , when they can very frequently be biased as you note with sponsors etc. Thats why product endorsement is so effective as a marketing tool.

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in this order:

1. Fit for for (identified) purpose- this is really important to stop you going off on a sport pursuit frenzy just buying stuff because of (2). You are meant to have decided you need a ... ( 125cm wide pair of skis/bright orange primaloft 100gm mid layer/babyblue merino beanie)
2. Value. Having identified what you NEED (cue the Stones) not what you WANT, then unemotionally (to the brand) check it all out...
3. Colour. Snot green is both always trendy and available and cheap. Black/Grey/Carbon is what people will wear to your funeral. There is no need to buy it now. Live a little.
4. Brand. It turns out there is some reason why some branded products are more expensive. Look at the range within the brand (say the Patagonia Snowshot 3-in-1 and the Primo Insulated. About £300 difference for a ski jacket..) . Then reassess if you have made the right conclusion at (2). [ie sometimes its worth paying, sometimes its not]

Finally, step back and put it in context: a) I m paying a weeks wages for a Norronna Pink Jacket for one weeks skiing holiday - I m off to TK Maxx
b) I own a flat in Arcs 1950 thats cost me xxx,000 euro we are going to ski there every year for 8 years, this expensive jacket from Norronna is going to do justice to that...

and also : I paid what for what car that I spend what time in, TV etc - ie dont be frightened of spending if you know that you are really going use something and can tell NOW the difference (beyond colour etc)

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Brand is not important. Fit and budget are the important factors for me.

You know it makes sense.

queen bodecia, One problem there is that 'fit' and 'budget' (if cheap) often don't go together, see my earlier helmet comment. But I do appreciate that also beggars can't always be choosers.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Boots: bought what CEM told me to buy.
Skis: tried a few, brand loyalty also plays a part for me.
Base layers: having learned the benefits of merino (thanks to snowHeads) I'll buy whatever's available at the most reasonable price.
Outer garments, including helmet: whatever fits.
Goggles: brand loyal, following first ever experience of ones that didn't mist up.

A snowHead

For hardwear I let myself be influenced by people that I know personally, and only if I'm pretty certain that they know their stuff.

So Spyderjon tells me which skis would suit what I'm after and can usually source them, or lets me know if the person I'm buying off knows their stuff and doesn't just sprout the marketing BS. I don't try to "demo" anymore, I may need to change my technique slightly for some skis, but that tends to happen fairly quickly and automatically.

He also suggested I saw CEM when I needed boots, but also that I tie in the visit for when Andy McCann would be in the shop.

So far the above has worked very well, both in terms of performance and price.

For baselayers I use mountainbiking/walking kit. It works fine, is cheaper than ski specific kit and I get to use it in the summer.

For outerwear, I've found that buying top end snowboarding kit in the sales works out the best value for money and looks (in my mind) better too.

I wouldn't trust guides/instructors to tell me about hardwear just because they were qualified to guide or teach, I'd have to know that they had some nouse in relation to kit too.

A snowHead

Youtube it, always reliable.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Not sure I would trust forums like this. Full of vocal people (like me) who may (well-intentioned but don't have a clue what they are talking about.

If a ski instructor or guide told me x was a good pair of skis, I would go along with that because I would assume these guys have tried many different skis themselves, understand why some ski differently to others, and probably chat with their friends about this so increasing their depth of knowledge.

Finally, we are all human. If I walk into the shop and I seem to hit it off with the salesman, the chances I will buy according to his reccomendaation are massively increased. Thus in practice the personal interaction takes priority over his knowledge or possible ulterior motives 90% of the time. But as human herd animals we are hardwired to respond like that.

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I would trust the opinion of Ski Mottert or Mike Pow over any guide or instuctor.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Different bits of kit get varying bits of thought put into them I am fairly price sensitive and buy a lot of stuff in sales but if I particualrly need something I will pay ful price.

Base layer M&S has always been fine for my purposes with their semi merino stuff at a reasonable price, bit warm in spring and I usually use Decathlon stuff.

Jacket we used to have a north face warehouse close by that had annual sales and I am still in a 12 year old jacket but it is now very tired and not really waterproof.I willhave to buy again and will look to the sales.
Saloppettes had a recommnedation on snowheads several years ago here to buy Arctertyx online from America still going very strong.

Skis I have made mistakes in the past of getting budget skis that were cheap in the sales but were not up to much. Though I am not really sensitive to skis skiing better ones is definatley beneficial. Still not really got much idea how to buy after nearly 30 years of skiing but look for good models on sale.I am not brand aware. I currently own about four sets for various uses two second hand and two in the sales.
Skins what the shop had.
Tranceiver 2nd hand from snowheads.
Shovel /probe decent one from online retailer personal recommnedation.

Boots basically have to fit and be comfortable.
Helmet I buy to keep the peace in the family not being a believer, if it fits and is comfortable thats fine.
Backpack has to be able to strap skis onto, robust and useable as cabin luggage took me a long time to track a suitable one down after my previous 30 year old day pack became frayed beyond reasonable repair. I bought one expensive mistake in between.

My next problem will be replacing my jacket I do want one of decent quality but at current prices will go for sale items.I distrust the habits of manufacturers to use their brand on quality stuff and then introduce much poorer quality stuff with a similar appearance but you only really notice the difference after a bit of time wearing the stuff. I am very poor at distinguishing quality by appearance and price is not a particularly reliable indicator either in my experience.

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I decide what category of product I want to buy, eg goretex shell, slalom ski, etc,. This comes mainly from personal experience of knowing what I like and what I need. I will then look for the best price product within that category. In general I've found that there's not a significant enough difference between different brands offering that category of product to be more important than any good deals on price. I will listen to or read a broad range of opinion, weighting the opinion more heavily of people that I know and trust their judgement, but it's hard to say that there is one single bit of advice which is key to making a purchase decision.

Only exception to this is buying boots where I think it is much more important to find an individual solution which works for you. In this case I will choose a good bootfitter and let them make the decisions, and any deal on price I can get is a welcome bonus.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

In this case I will choose a good bootfitter and let them make the decisions, and any deal on price I can get is a welcome bonus.

You'd get a welcome bruise, cheeky Taff!

After all it is free

CH2O,

I generally post on internet sites, getting people to argue about it and insult each other before making a firm decision.

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

DB, well done, hope you like the Cochise

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Elston, for some weird, masochistic reason, I never tire of that clip. Yuck.

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What motivates / influneces you to buy specific brands / gear - shops, deals, PR, this forum?

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