 Poster: A snowHead
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I had a TNF jacket that I was hoping to upgrade this season and wanted a top-of-the range jacket that would go on for years and years. I was torn between the TNF Free Thinker and Arc'teryx SV Sidewinder (or the one with the stowable hood) I was all ready to go for the Arc'teryx but noticed the snow skirt appeared to be an after thought. It comprises a small piece of material with a draw-string in it, has no gripper elastic and no hooks for your saly's, in short it's pathetic. The reason for upgrading was to ensure I have a snow skirt, this one was clearly sub-standard. Needless to say, I went for the Free-Thinker and after reading the threads in here I am a little nervouse at my purchase. I still have another two weeks to take it back and therefore need your help fellow Snowheads.
Is the snow-skirt in the Arc'teryx good enough?
Is the hood in the Free-Thinker too small?
Will the "water-proof" zip let in cold air when the wind is howling?
Have I made a terrible mistake?
If you own either of these jackets could you let me know what you think of them. Thanks.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Is the snow-skirt in the Arc'teryx good enough?
yes it works very well
in general Arc'teryx stuff is deceptively minimalist - very good detail design avoids the need for heavy features
My only reservation about my sidewinder is the hood. Don't get me wrong it works brilliantly (actually turns with your head, doesnt flap when you are not using it) but it is not large enough to easily get over a helmet. This isnt a big deal when skiing (except perhaps in really horrid weather on chairlifts) but is more of an issue if you want it to double as a mountaineering jacket
btw, I think the top--of-the-range NF jackets are still pretty good but IMO Arc'teryx are better. doubt you've made a terrible mistake
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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PowderHunter, I have the sidewinder too, love it, and seems much better quality than TNF is these days. Perfect pocket placement, I agree with jedster about the hood though.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I've just bought a TNF Surreal jacket. Haven't had chance to test it yet, but let's hope that it is indeed waterproof as I'm off next week 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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My local ski slope have used the Freethinker as their uniform over the last year and have had no problems in some pretty disgusting weather.
The Freethinker was recommended by New Generation who used it a couple of seasons ago.
BASI trainers are also in the Freethinker jacket (were last season anyway, but sure they are this season too) and it has gone down well.
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Have an Arc'Teryx jacket and pants. Great gear.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Have an Arc'teryx Stingray and a TNF Freethinker. Got the Stingray cheap but 3 sizes too big so bought the Freethinker. Both great jackets: the fit is excellent but the hood on the Arc'eryx is better (larger). Snowskirt is adjustable and it only rode up once or twice. Would've kept if it fitted. Time for an eBay sell me thinks... 
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Thanks for the input so far chaps, I appreciate that the Arcteryx stuff is very well made and as I mnetione previously I nearly bought it as I thought it was the best you could get. It's just this bloody snow skirt that looks dodgy, if anyone has anymore comments regarding the snow skirt OR any other problems with their Sidewinder I would appreciate you views. I've heard that the zips can go and because there isn't a backup vlecro flap it has the potential to leave you exposed.
Thanks for the input
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I have an Arc'teryx sidewinder jacket also. Have had no problems with the snow skirt ever, whether wearing sallopettes or regular trousers.
I have found that I leave the hood out all the time regardless of the weather conditions as I have found it's too bulky to have it stowed away when I'm wearing it. If I had to buy one again, I would get one where the hood was not stowable - maybe that's just me though.
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....your comment on the stowable hood is interesting smolo, - mine doesn't have that facility & I was aspiring to the 'stowable upgrade'....! My 'velcro modification' may be of interest to you then - I roll the hood, loosely, from the peak, into itself and then stick it to a pre-glued velcro patch on the collar. Works well and isn't too bulky.
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You know it makes sense.
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Arc'teryx over TNF everytime for me. I've had both and the Arc'teryx is much better quality, and very functional.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I've been doing a little research and came up with a couple other options, any ideas on their quality and desirability?
Mountain Hardwear: Tenacity Jacket or Beryllium Jacket
Mountain Equipment: Changabang Jacket
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Poster: A snowHead
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I'm a big fan of Mountain Equipment. I have an old Changabang which is absolutely bomb proof. Don't think it will have a powderskirt (which I don't think are necessary anyway). It's also completely over-specified for most skiing - you could buy a much cheaper model and not feel you were missing out on performance IMO
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I just got a new Changabang, the hood is stowable, has a snowskirt, top jacket. It is very high specced but I'll be using it for other mountain activities so well worth the money (got a 15% discount to swing the deal). 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Scarpa, yep - that heavy gore-tex stands up to dragging yourself over sharp rocks very well interesting about the snow-skirt
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Arno, My old Berghaus is 16 years old, been all over the world, it's now my sea fishing jacket. Changabang snowskit can zip out, the jacket also has a pocket on the left sleve for electronic passes.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Funny enough when I first got it (the old one) I put a tiny hole in the pocket due to a sharp flake of rock the first time I climbed in it. That was the only damage it sustained. Only reason I've upgraded is that the face fabric is a little too fuzzy to repel water, plus being long, purple and green it is just tooooo 80's 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Scarpa, when has that ever stopped you? 
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Arc'teryx... I've had their jacket(s) and salopettes for 8 years, none are retired yet...
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Sharkymark, I might bring the trenchcoat next EOSB and make it the 1880's 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Might want to also look at the Haglofs Helium. Very high quality 3 layer goretex jacket.
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I think Mountain Hardware and Mountain Equipment are both excellent value for money (i.e., quite a bit cheaper than Arcteryx and nearly as good). I'd prefer both to current NF
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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BTW - I had an original Lhotse Mountain Jacket and a Mountain Guide Jacket plus a pair of Goretex pants from NF so it's not like I hate them...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Well despite the call for Arc'teryx I don't think they are worth the money. I had a look at one today (£440) and for that money I would want a better thought out jacket. The Powder skirt is just rubbish and I expect a lot more from a company who is as innovative as they are. I have however come to the conclusion that I am taking the Free Thinker back. When spending £340 ona jacket you want to feel that you have the best one for you and there should be some excitement about it. The hood is just too small and isn't as good as the hood on the Arc'teryx. I have fallen in love with both the Mountain Equipment Changabang (Sunshine or Red!) and Mountain Hardwear Tenacity Decente jacket. They are both awesome, XCR, great fit, powder skirt, waterprof zips, less money than the Free Thinker, (Although money wasn't the issue, it was the perfect jacket I was trying to find) well thought out construction and when you put a jacket that is this functional, it just feels right instantly.
The problem now is, which one? I am definitely going to buy one of them, I just need a little help deciding. Any thoughts?
PS: Thanks for all your input so far.
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i'd support british manufacturers and go Mountain Equipment (unless the other one was cheaper on ebay...)
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You know it makes sense.
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PowderHunter, ..... not sure where you are pricing £440 is crazy! but I do know a new Arc'teryx Sidewinder SV Jacket is 500 US Dollars, which is approximately £250.00. I paid about the same when I bought mine from Moosejaw.
I do disagree with your view on the Arc'teryx snowskirt - I think your descriptive was a bit strong, especially given actual users views.
If you do decide on a jacket Mtn. Equipment or Hardware, then it may be of some help to you to look at 'Moosejaw' or 'Backcountry' before buying. You will definitely safe a fortune against the prices you quote and have delivery in 2-3 days.
Well wear whatever you decide and I hope you have many happy carves, whilst looking cool at the same time.... 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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All the kit you've mentioned is top-notch. Pick the one that fits the best and comes in your favourite colour. If you can wear any of it out in under five years I'd be astonished.
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Poster: A snowHead
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jedster, I concur on NF on my second mountain guide jacket which is about 5 years old as some stitching is coming loose on interior pockets where as my 15 year old (very dirty) one still going strong on the Dry slope. I recon that NF quality has slid a bit in their fleeces and jackets.
PowderHunter, was it just the hood on the free thinker that put you off??, a couple instructors at New Gen in courcheval where raving over them but they didnt have helmets on......
I got some great mountain equipment expedition gloves which have been too warm to wear so far this year!!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Whichever gives you 15% discount hehehe. Don't be afraid to go from shop to shop asking if they will beat anothers deals. It's a free market out there.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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skimottaret, there's no way you could wear a helmet with a Freethinker hood BUT it was the best fitting jacket (along with an Arc'teryx) that I tried. Old school construction (stitched) but seems bullet proof. Generally well designed, I'll be seeing if it holds up to Sharky abuse 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Sharkymark, so you wen tfor NF in the end over arc'teryx?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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kiwi1, With the prices quoted Haglofs indeed sounds like the right answer. Plus, using helmet is not problem at all - since they actually design these jackets for serious (ab)use.
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Well I have to say thank you to all of you who contributed and helped me make the decision. I went for the Moutain Equipment Changabang in Red (As we all know it is the fastest colour!) and I am over the moon about it. It ticked every single box that I had and I got it for a £100 less than the Free Thinker. With the saving I picked up a new fleece and the awesome Mountain Equipment Guide Series Couloir XCR gloves.
I wish that I hadn't been so TNF snobby all this time and realised that there were better brands out there. When I had first bought the Free Thinker I started to look on this site and when I read the reviews about TNF I was initially horrified but deep down I could relate to them. I was always lead to believe that TNF were the best and I had just bought their top of the range, £340, hardshell jacket yet I didn't feel that giggly school-boy feling that you get when you buy something that is top drawer. I knew there were flaws in it, certain aspects that didn't feel right when I put it on and when you spend that sort of money the fundamental things like the hood being too small (TNF Free Thinker) or the powder skirt feels substandard(Arc'teryx Sidewinder) or the lack of zipper garages (TNF FT), or the fact you can't stow the hood (TNF FT), or you can but it's bulky around the neck(Arc'teryx Sidewinder AR) these things have to be right. It's not because I'm picky or have standards that are too high but because I know how these things can ruin your day when they are not right. Who wants to be stuck on a chairlift at 9am, with not sun, heavy winds and a temperature that's not only obliterated your hangover, you've started long for it because the pain of the wind is that severe and wishing you had paid a little more attention to these details. I have to say, some of my fondest ski memories come from chairlift rides where everyone around you is moaning and I've been totally locked down and toasty. Thank you very much for the help, I hope I'm allowed to feel that smug again!
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PowderHunter, where did you try out the ME jacket, i find their stuff hard to find....
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PowderHunter, My chang is red as well - good choice Did you see the dayglo orange version - now that would really stand out?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Go on to the ME website and look for stockists, it will have a list of all the retail outlets that stock it. I got mine from a shop in Guildford calle Mountain Trek and Travel or something like that. The staff were very helpful and knowledgeable and ultimately sealed the deal for me. I also got a 10% discount as well which was nice of them.
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My sidewinder AR proshell, stowable hood is frickin really large in the mid section don't know who's it tailored to.
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FAQ
