 Poster: A snowHead
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First post but been lurking a while! I hope this is in the right place as it's mostly resort specific.
So we just booked our first family ski holiday in La Plagne 1800 (self-catered Lauze apartments with Crystal) for the second week of Easter holidays as one of ours is in school. There is me (early intermediate, based on a week in Pamporovo back in the mists of time and a lot of recent lessons at Hemel, plus a short midweek break on my own to Les Menuires last month), my husband (very much a beginner but has had some lessons) and two daughters of 6 and 4 who are also beginners, but are currently having lessons at Hemel too. Plus our 21 month old son who will be almost two when we go and we are lucky enough to have secured full day childcare for our son with Crystal's Pepi Penguin club.
Obviously though.. I have loads of questions 
1) Crystal say they don't provide car seats on the coach transfers. We're flying into Grenoble - I have to admit I'm a little concerned because even if it isn't French law, it doesn't make it any less, well, dangerous. It's one thing for short local bus journeys but another for miles of motorway and mountain passes covered in snow. Okay, I know, what are the odds of an accident.. but that's not the point really. Car safety is a big "thing" for me - we've even invested in a rear-facing older child seat for our own car. The six and four year old I'm grudgingly okay with having adult belts, but what about the little man? I am not having him on our laps because research indicates that is even more dangerous in the result of an accident as they get crushed by the adult. Does anyone have any ideas or thoughts as to possible solutions?
2) Getting around in resort. We're going to bring a small Maclaren buggy of course, for the airports if nothing else. But from my own experience in the snow here in the UK, it's a right old sod pushing it through snow. Will most of the routes be packed snow/cleared of snow? And I've heard talk of steps around town? And no lifts in the Lauze apartments. Would we be better off bringing a massive backpack thing for him, bearing in mind we wouldn't get much use out of it beyond this holiday as he's so much older now, plus he'll be really really heavy.. When I was in Les Menuires I saw loads of children being towed around in sledges. Is that a practical thing to do in La Plagne 1800? Can you rent sledges or would it be a case of buying one then abandoning it as I don't fancy trying to get it home via Easyjet and we have two at home anyway!
3) What ski school do Crystal use in La Plagne 1800, out of interest? The girls are booked in on morning lessons. We have no idea what level they'll be at by the time we go - will the ski school assess and place as appropriate?
4) We'll most likely book a private lesson for the two of us on the first or second day - what ski school do you recommend?
5) What do you reckon the snow will be like that late - week beginning 6th April. Also will it be ridiculously crowded? I notice it doesn't seem to be French school holidays at least!
Very grateful for any answers or indeed any tips, advice etc! Very excited.. not sure I can wait the whole two months now!!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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OK these are not the definitive answers but the best I can manage.
1/ There are no mountain passes between Grenoble airport and La Plange. You descend to the Isere valley and follow it to Aim where you ascend to La Plagne. As to car seats on coaches I have never seen it, but if you are really worried you could bring your own but the use of lap belts may be a problem in fitting.
2/ The roads in the resort are likely to be clear in April. A buggy will be of a lot more use than a sledge.
3/ Almost certainly ESF, but Crystal will be the best people to ask.
4/ Why not book the two of you into group lessons for the whole week? There is much to learn.
5/ Based on previous experience of La Plagne in April. The snow conditions are most likely to be typical spring - firm in the morning and soft in the afternoon, but with the chance of fresh snowfalls at any point. The resort will not be crowded. In fact it will probably be delightfully quiet.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I'd agree with johnE, book yourselves into group lessons, same timings as the kids.
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Thanks both! I'm not so sure we want to lug around a carseat just for the transfer (past experience with carseats/planes has been quite stressful!) and as you say it's likely to be lapbelts which probably wouldn't be compatible. Bit annoyed actually as before booking I'd spoken to a Crystal rep who said they do provide carseats.. then after booking I spoke to another one (then checked on their site) and saw they don't. Ugh.
Good to know the buggy will be fine!
I thought about putting us into lessons, but part of the appeal was going to be exploring the mountain just the two of us - with three little ones and no family nearby to babysit, we rarely get any "just us" couple time so that was part of the motivation behind the break. We'd rather pay out for one or two private lessons (plus lots of time at Hemel beforehand - we're planning quite a lot of intensive lessons although I know it's no substitute for a mountain) and then have time on our own, rather than spend our rare child-free time with a bunch of strangers! It's not like we'll be able to "practice" in the other half of the day as we'll have the older two with us. I managed fine in Les Menuires by myself with just one private lesson at the start and had a fantastic time on the greens and blues with no issues.
Glad to hear it will be quiet - perfect!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Would you not prefer to hire a car for the week, which will set your minds at rest about the childseat issues? Also I'd be having serious words with Crystal if one of their reps told you that carseats were available.
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Thanks!! That's not a bad idea! Although I imagine it would end up being quite expensive if we hired car seats out there, plus petrol, parking etc. Ugh, a tough decision. Not to mention being a little wary of driving in a foreign country potentially in snow.
Will definitely say something to Crystal.
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How about one of those Trunki booster pack things, saw a few families with these in the US last year, they seem to work really well.
http://www.trunki.co.uk/EN/categories/boostapak_9
I agree with the poster above, buggy more use than sledge at this time of year, but if you do need a sledge you can get plastic ones at the Spar for a few Euro. I would suggest that you take a strap with you to make pulling it along more comfortable (I used to use a decent dog lead  ).
Late Easter skiing can be really pleasant, think about what you are going to wear in the afternoons, temps of +10 not unusual and keeping the kids cool and non sweaty used to be a major issue. Have a great time, I'm sure you will love la Plagne.
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I think the front seats of the coach will have proper three point seat belts. I think, given what you were told initially, I'd ask for a written assurance from Crystal that you could use those seats and carry with you a car seat which can be fixed in place that way. I understand your concern - my daughter and son in law would absolutely refuse to take a child in a vehicle without a proper seat - which is no doubt why I shall be driving to pick them up in Geneva at Easter, with my two car seats at the ready. Followed, the next day, by picking up my son and family, with another 3 kids. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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landlockedpirate - they look interesting! It does say from 15kg though, and he's probably only about 11kg or so. Then again it may well be better than nothing.
Good to hear it may well not be too cold. When I went to Les Menuires last month I went up to Val Thorens a few times and at the top it was allegedly -30C and then the windchill.. wow, I felt it! My older two are the first to complain about the cold so if they're getting too hot that sounds far preferable, ha. Great tip about a strap for the sledge - bitter experience towing children home from sledging here in the UK many times!
pam - I think I'm going to hassle Crystal over this quite a bit. I am quite sure I am not the first person to see issue with what they're offering, especially as I'd been reassured. I saw no reason to doubt the rep because when I went alone with skiweekends, I talked to the driver there and he said there's never an issue with car seats etc and they provide them. So if a small operator like that can handle it, and they don't even advertise as family friendly, I naturally assumed Crystal, with all their childcare options, would have something in place.
I sympathise massively on your taxi duties! I hope they make it up to you in some way!!
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sparklies, Just got back yesterday from La Plagne stayed in Plagne Centre, snowed every day and very cold, so you should have a decent base now until April, its a great area for intermediates, you will be able to ski the whole area on blues, and take in some of the easier reds if you want. Just buy the local La Plagne pass there is enough to ski 250kms without paying to go over to Les Arcs, and you may need to get back for the kids, hopefully not. Crystal do use ESF, you may want to try Oxygene for yourself they have a good reputation. We have used Crystal for the last 7 years, never seen a child seat or booster being supplied, if they have a recording of the initial conversation, I would push hard for them to provide one, and suggest that they offer them in future. All the coaches have lap belts which should be OK for the older kids. I dont know about the food shops in 1800, there is a Spar and nice deli in the commercial centre in LP centre, and a bigger Spar in Aime 2000, having had a quick look for possible self catering in the future
Hope this is some help
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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That's great geoffknight - thank you very much for taking the time to share - very helpful! Good news about the snow, sounds ideal, and for the info about the food shops. Hope you had a great time!
I suspect you are right about getting the local pass, especially as unless one of us goes back alone, we're going to be severely limited by time. And it certainly seems like there's a lot of blues around - one of the reasons we chose it! I will look into Oxygene, thank you for the recommendation! I had a very good private lesson with an ESF instructor in Les Menuires (he was solely a private instructor, not a group one) but from what I've read it sounds like I got lucky so I don't know if I will get lucky twice!!
Unfortunately my conversation with the Crystal rep happened in real life as I was at Hemel and talking to their representative in the foyer there, so it wouldn't have been recorded.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I got a reply from Crystal today:
Thank you for your email,
Unfortunately we do not have car seats this is something we are looking in to. It’s to do with the coach company we use.
You more than welcome to take a car seat and if there is a seat you may use it. We cannot say if that is going to be the case as we do book holidays up to the day before.
I understand your concern for this and I hope we can resolve this for next season your feedback has been passed on.
If there are any more questions please do not hesitate to contact me.
We do have a carseat that we may be able to use with a lap belt (presumably they're lap belts, not three pointers, although I may email to clarify). Realistically, as I am assuming Crystal won't make guarantees so won't even guess, how likely is it that the transfer bus from Grenoble to La Plagne is likely to be full second week Easter holidays? Can anyone take a guess?
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| sparklies wrote: |
| We do have a carseat that we may be able to use with a lap belt (presumably they're lap belts, not three pointers, although I may email to clarify). Realistically, as I am assuming Crystal won't make guarantees so won't even guess, how likely is it that the transfer bus from Grenoble to La Plagne is likely to be full second week Easter holidays? Can anyone take a guess? |
Really hard to call. Some of the tour operators load buses full of guests for more than one resort, then split into smaller groups at Moutiers or Aime La Plagne, so low occupancy in resorts is not guide. Crystal stopped at Moutiers to pick up guests from Val Thorens when a colleague travelled down from La Plagne earlier in the year.
I must admit, I'm yet to see child seats on transfer coaches, any more than they tend to be available in taxis or on public buses in the UK.
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You know it makes sense.
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Hmm, that's true. When I went to Les Menuires with Ski Weekends, we stopped at Moutiers to pick up/drop off people from Brides les Bains.
So what generally happens with small children then on transfer coaches? I can understand 3-4 years plus having an adult belt, and babes-in-arms being, well, in arms even if it's not actually safe. However unfortunately my son at almost two is too big to happily sit still on somebody's lap for three hours and he will make short work of escaping from an adult belt as he already escapes from his car seat without an aftermarket extra strap attached! He would happily sit in his car seat in silence though, it's a psychology thing. If he knows he can escape, he wants to wander off and has a habit of throwing a massive tantrum if he is stopped from doing so and there are only so many raisins and distracting toys to bribe with! Not much fun for anyone around us either. He's not unusual for his age.. I dunno, I guess I would be more sympathetic toward Crystal if they didn't advertise and sell family-friendly holidays then overlook safety and in fact practicality when it comes to the transfer.
Long distance taxi drivers especially to airports generally provide car seats if requested, or at least some firms do. There's less need for car seats on short urban journeys because they don't tend to go that fast. Buses don't need them because people are getting on and off all the time and again they tend to not go on fast roads. Coaches are required by law to have seatbelts in the UK though because they usually go on faster roads but like France there is no requirement for child seats. I guess babies are less important  or more likely it's that it's too big an ask for a coach company to provide car seats just in case so it isn't made into law.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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#4. For the private lessons I would definitely go for Oxygene over ESF. A great bunch and incredibly friendly from my experience.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I know that www.cgski.co.uk based in La Plagne Montalbert have baby seats for their transfer vehicles. I guess that is yet another positive difference between a small individually owned buisness and the huge multi nationals.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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foxtrotzulu - thank you for the recommendation! I think we're probably going with Reflex after a search on here. We would have put the children in something other than ESF but they were the only school that took children as young as four who had some previous skiing experience.. Reflex won't take them under five and Oxygene only seemed to have beginner lessons for under 8s.
Boredsurfing - next time we book a family ski holiday I am not going with the big companies! It's just it is our first family trip and I thought we would play it safe as for a first trip we're not going to know what to book and where etc. That chalet looks lovely - kicking myself a bit now!! Ah well, live and learn.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I think there were two other bits of your original message that weren't answered. Firstly, numbers that week. The resort will probably not be that crowded as the French (apart from locals) tend not to ski that time of year. La Plagne is quite high though, so if conditions do get worse you may find a lot of people coming up there. Ski Lessons with ESF tend to be quite short unless Crystal have a special deal. Standard lessons could be as short as two hours (10-12) so its worth checking before you book any for yourselves. You will not need the Paradiski pass (just La Plagne) as you won't have time to get over to Les Arcs if you have to pick the older children up at lunchtime and, you'll have to pick them up back in 1800 where their lessons started. The snow will be wet in the afternoon and quite heavy so I'd suggest you go high later in the day. Do take a trip up to the Bellecote Glacier. There is an Ice Grotto to explore, which the kids will love, and you can come back down to the mid-station in the Bubble if you don't fancy the ski. There is then a lovely Blue (skiers right) of the bubble which hardly anyone skis on and gives you great views down the valley toward Bourg. One final tip: Do not take the children on the Blue from Les Bauches to Les Coches (on the far left of La Plagne on the piste map), its pancake flat and you'll be pulling them for hours!!
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sparklies, I actually meant that you should choose Oxygene for the private lesson for the two of you, not necessarily for the kids. The problem I found with ESF private lessons is that they are only keen to do them at lunch time - just when you do NOT want a lesson. Oxygene were much more flexible and spoke far better english. I am sure Reflex are great, but do check about lesson timings etc.
BTW and with ref to the post above, group lessons with ESF are 0915 until 1145 from memory.
Jamie
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Thanks panaga - that's really useful. Glad to hear the French have given up for the year, and I hope the conditions stay good further down! You're right about the lift pass - I don't fancy our chances of getting to Les Arcs unless we split up and one of us goes back for the children - we may take it in turns to do that anyway. Really great tips about which runs to do, and I'm glad to hear the Ice Grotto is worthwhile because it sounded really interesting!
foxtrotzulu - From Crystal's website here: http://www.crystalski.co.uk/ski-resorts/france-ski-holidays/la-plagne/piste/ it suggests the ski school timings are 9.30-12.30 (10-12.30 Sundays) in Plagne 1800. I might give them a call tomorrow to triple check that though before handing over any deposit for private lessons! I didn't realise that about ESF's private instructors - another reason to avoid them then!! Thank you!
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| Quote: |
I don't fancy our chances of getting to Les Arcs unless we split up and one of us goes back for the children - we may take it in turns to do that anyway.
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I wouldn't bother - there's more than enough in La Plagne, you'll only scratch the surface.
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This is what I've been hearing! Especially as we're hardly experts - I know from my brief trip last month that the burn on previously unused leg muscles meant an awful lot of stopping and admiring the view  Compared to the 160m at Hemel that we're used to, what's a few extra hundred km..
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sparklies No need to call Crystal re the lessons, your quoted times are correct thats what we had last week, if you want some more info on what runs are nice, I will dig out my map and let you know my favourites from our week. The coaches do have lap belts, hope the journey goes OK, he sounds a lively little fella
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Thanks Geoff - that's reassuring to know! Would love to hear your favourites - with that much ski area and not a lot of time with juggling small children, it's all too easy to waste time on a rubbish run after all.
And thank you for letting me know about the lap belts. Crystal haven't bothered replying to my question on that subject yet and I'm not sure if they will! He's definitely lively.. at completely the wrong age for travel. We flew to the US west coast twice in recent years when each of our girls was around a similar age so you'd think we'd know better by now than to travel anywhere, ha! I guess we're veterans by this point though..
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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sparklies, If you are anything like me you will, quite sensibly, forget all these tips and just enjoy the skiing when you are there. In my very limited experience of La Plagne it's remarkably hard to go wrong there.
Piste Mauve - How in God's name do they get a cow on a chairlift?
Ice Grotto - Not sure it counts as quiet day. I think it's the skiing equivalent of spending half an hour at a theme park bracketed by a two-hour drive each way to get there. The Grotto is fun (for 10 minutes), but it's a long flog up (and down) on the lifts.
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The cow skis half way down the mauve piste and then stops and if you stop next to her you can ask for a chocolate.
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You know it makes sense.
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I stayed in Plagne 1800. It has a more village feel than other La Plagne areas. There is a free bus to take you up to Plagne Centre.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Personally I hate Levasset and would avoid it, especially with children. No run that has an uphill section requiring a rope tow is fun in my book. I also remember it being very busy, even in the second week of January.
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Poster: A snowHead
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sugarmoma666, Ah, yes. I forgot about the rope tow. It wasn't a problem as far as I can remember, but not really recommended for children. I think my superior body weight may have just carried me up the hill! However, it certainly wasn't busy during the third week of March last year.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Brilliant, thanks everyone!! I think we'll definitely check out the mauve piste, just for the novelty - hope the cow is still there! Wonder how that job is advertised?!
Really useful tips, especially over runs to avoid!
I don't know how good the girls (especially the younger one) will get over the course of the lessons we get them first at Mount Hemel and eventually in resort, but assuming they don't get good enough even for an easy blue, are there any "nursery"-style slopes for them outside of ski school to practice on with us either in Plagne 1800 or the centre?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Plagne 1800 has its own nursery slope with a drag tow.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Thank you! I thought it probably did. Is it okay for people who aren't currently having lessons to use it? Is it free to use as well (just in case we get some spare time on the Saturday as we're arriving in the resort quite early and our lift passes won't be active!) ?
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