 Poster: A snowHead
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No, Scarpa, not electrician fetish gear! 
Went to Profeet on Wednesday to get some insoles to sort my knee pronation, and blow out my touring boots (that seem to have shrunk since I bought them  ).
On that funky foot pressure machine the tech was quite amused to see the map when in skiing posture - my heels completely disappeared. Even in normal standing position, there's not a lot of weight on my heels. So then he had a look at me trying to flex my ankles keeping my heels on the ground and his verdict was "ankle flex approximately..........nothing!". At maximum flex my hips drop about 2 inches at most. Basically the only way I get more flex than this is by lifting my heels off the ground - and of course this is not just an issue of boots being too stiff as this was in bare feet. And when I mentioned the legion of instructors that have tried in vain to get me to flex forward rather than sit in the good old lavatory position  , he said "but I bet none of them told you why you couldn't". So to any that have seen me ski (you know who you are ) - my defence is that I'm actually mostly not standing on my heels, despite any appearances to the contrary 
I suspect the main cause of this, other than that I spend all day sitting at a desk, is that I cycle a fair bit, with not particularly good technique - rather than the more accepted high leg-speed, medium force approach I'm a high gear, low leg-speed, high force cyclist, so have very strong but inflexible ankles.
So he's given me their usual list of stretches to try, highlighting the good old "stand on a step on the balls of your feet and drop your heels as low as possible" one. Any other suggestions to improve my range of ankle movement?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hi Graham,
Is there a swimming pool nearby? When I was competing as a triathlete our swimming coach had us holding on to a kick board (bit of waterproof polystyrene 1 ft square) with outstretched arms then made us wizz up and down the pool using only leg power. He maintained that this not only improved the strength of kick but also ankle flexibility. For added impact we would use swim fins, which are like little flippers that sub-aqua guys use.
Another thing.. have any of your cycling mates got a fixed gear bike you could borrow? Riding one of these will help to smooth out your cycling pedal stroke rather than mashing down on the pedals. Spinning classes at the local gym would also help with this.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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How about squats with weights?
When you get into the squat position, then pulse for 10 before rising.
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I would concentrate on the classic ski position with pelvis tilted... all the time, every run.. I don't know whether this is considered correct but for me all good skiing starts with posture. But I guess this would have been covered by the instructors
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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GrahamN,
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On that funky foot pressure machine the tech was quite amused to see the map when in skiing posture - my heels completely disappeared.
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My one foot was the same at Profeet, but then I have had an operation...so that's my excuse. The standard stretch for the calf/achilles AFAIK is the stairs one...no bouncing up and down!!
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GrahamN, Aah - Well Graham I apologise for any rude comments, and any that I may make in the future. This then suggests that you've adopted the crouched stance to try to flex more. However ............ if, after doing all the exercises, you still can't flex your ankles properly, then if you manage to change your position into one that's more upright and forward at the hips (so that your weight is on the balls)(???!!!) then you can counteract the lack of flex to some extent. I adoted this tack with my pal Deb, who was completely unable to flex the ankle. After she got into a nice forward position - hey presto - her ankles started working!!!! Consequence was a huge leap forward..
Hopefully I'll see the fruits of this labour later this winter.
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easiski, no apologies necessary - and I tend to find that the rudest comments work best anyway, and look forward to more in the future ! I think I may very well end up the same as your pal (but who's balls does she stand on ). The amount of forward flex in the ankles does seem to vary depending on how relaxed I am, and the crouch really comes in when I'm pushing the envelope - but then that is most of the time  .
Wear The Fox Hat, sounds like it may well be useful, although I pretty much always lift my heels when I squat, so could be conter-productive unless I concentrate hard on avoiding that.
Clive, certainly points to think about. I'm not sure the swimming thing will help though, as I don't have problems with flexibility in ankle extension, which if I'm reading you right is where the flipper stuff would work. I may have given the wrong impression on the cycling thing - I don't do anything competitive or clubbish there, I just use it the bike as my main means of transport wherever feasible.
JT, that sounds like the goal to me, it's just that for me the road there doesn't seem a particularly straight one.
snowbunny definitely no bouncing for me - but I fail to see how you can avoid it  !
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GrahamN, I lift my heels a little when I squat, but if you pulse when in the squat position, I'm not sure if it's possible to do it without flexing your ankles.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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snowbunny, sorry...rather poor joke relating bouncing to fluffy white rabbits
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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snowbunny, Unfortunately in real life I press flowers and sing songs devoted to the aromatic scat of otters.
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You know it makes sense.
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Scarpa,
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snowbunny, Unfortunately in real life I press flowers and sing songs devoted to the aromatic scat of otters.
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Now THAT is weird, get some counselling 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Scarpa wrote: |
| snowbunny, Unfortunately in real life I press flowers ... |
Do you put on women's clothing and hang around in bars?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Wear The Fox Hat, street corners actually.
snowbunny, There was an element of truth in it. Many years ago I used to decorate little tins with wild flowers under the top varnish glaze - they made nice presents. On the otter front - when I was doing some wildlife work I went to a day of talks by some experts. One was entitled 'A Sprait Sniffers Guide to Otters'. Otter spraits (poo) are scented and actually smell like musty perfume - weird eh?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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the best exercise for ankle flex is not the one standing on the stairs, which stretches the upper part of the calf muscle. you need to stand with one leg back (hands on back of chair, or wall, for stability) then, with both feet FLAT on the floor, drop the knee of the back leg towards the floor. that stretches a lower part of the calf muscle, forget the exact name, gastro-something.
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pam w,
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that stretches a lower part of the calf muscle, forget the exact name, gastro-something.
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Yes, you are right. The two muscles for the calf are the gastronemius and the soleus. I believe that the soleus lies behind the fatter gastronemius. The soleus AFAIK is stretched by bringing the knee forward with the heel on the ground and the other can be stretched with a straight knee.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Scarpa,
No argument from me at all
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Hey where did my picture of Lawrence Dallaglio go ?
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The soleus AFAIK is stretched by bringing the knee forward with the heel on the ground and the other can be stretched with a straight knee
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snowbunny, I can never remember which is which, but the key one for ankle flex is the lower one, which I think is the gastro-thingy. The bulging calf muscle is the one stretched with straight leg. I do both when cleaning teeth for two minutes with electric toothbrush, twice a day. saves time but looks stupid.
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pam w, I do them both in the shower every day - agree about the lower one for ankle flex.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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GrahamN,
Exactly,
When are you off next.?
But you should see a physio about the movement range and get them to devise a range of exercises as sometimes the body compensates too much.... I had to go right back to basics.. and I mean basics, to cure my back..or rather improve it considerably to the point that although I know I still have an issue it isn't a hinderance
playing golf or skiing. It stops me running too far as the jarring isn't a good idea.. thats my excuse anyway...!! 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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JT, physio may be an idea to look at, but I'll see how it goes for this season first - the back does seem to be getting worse slowly but steadily over recent years though.
Hoping to go to Cham 19-22 Jan; not booked yet, but should get holiday clearance from work tomorrow, then sort the airfares (BA looking better than EZ ATM). Assuming the gite I normally go to has space available, it should work out under £300 all in. If that doesn't come off, there'll be nothing until LG/LDA.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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GrahamN, I have some of the same issues. Not helped by an old Achilles rupture in the right leg. I suspect that years of keeping wicket has knackered my ankles as well. I have found that committing to good lateral movement helps with keeping fore/aft balance.
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GrahamN,
That could be great news about Cham on the 19th. I am on my way back from Andermatt on 18th and Tony wants his boys to see the vallee blanche. If I can pursuade the rest to go climbing whilst we go up top, we might see you there. I don't have to be back at work until the 22nd, I think...!!
I'm off on sunday so I'll PM you my mobile. See how this pans out this week
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You know it makes sense.
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GrahamN, laundryman,
This might be obvious so apologies if you know...
Get a proper physio you trust and get a program. Things might not be as bad as they seem and the body might have seized up
some time ago to protect itself. And there is no way off undoing this, you have to retrain and stretch etc. You probably couldn't ID the range of movement you should have but a Pro should know....
I have found one, she is a genius...!!!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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JT, excellent! I'll be on my tod, and was intending to try and get on a VB group for one day, and maybe a day with the SCGB rep (Thurs is normally their off-piste day, although they're not allowed to do any off-piste glacier stuff) and just mosey about for the rest of it - but if we can get up to something interesting together that would be just perfect!
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Poster: A snowHead
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GrahamN,
PM'd you
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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GrahamN, I haven't time to read all the posts on here so appologies if this has already been said: I would do squats, feet hip width apart, arms raised in front at 90 degrees to your body back straight, repeat fast squats keeping heels flat until you reach your maximum. Start with a small amount of reps, and gradually increase over the days/weeks, I would be very surprised if you did not notice a difference after a month of doing each day 2 x day. Good luck! 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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GrahamN,
just to be a bit off the wall, the lack of ankle flex is one thing, it may be sorted by stretching if there is no boney block in the ankle joint. one of the other most common reasons for the 'toilet position' on skis is that you have too m uch forward lean or a too steep ramp angle in your boots, couple of ways to remedy this
1 raise the toes inside the boot
2 lower the heels (not going to work if you have no flex)
3 fit toe risers of 100 under the toe piece of yopur bindings
4 change your boots to something more upright
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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CEM, I don't think he has too much lean in his boots - I've seen him ski. He does need to stand up though!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Graham,
Re the cycling, I think you have a point. Two suggestions:
1. Do you use clipless pedals? I switched to them a couple of months ago and find that I now use a fuller range of motion in my ankles - I pull my toes up (flex the ankle) when I pull up on a pedal.
2. low cadence/high gear is a matter of choice, right? Anything you do to fix this problem is going to require some self-discipline (e.g., stretching, physio) so why not start here? Just keep selecting a gear 1 or 2 down from the one that feels "right".
J
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| easiski wrote: |
| CEM, I don't think he has too much lean in his boots - I've seen him ski. He does need to stand up though! |
Do you mean "stand taller" or does he over do the Apres-Ski ?
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he had a look at me trying to flex my ankles keeping my heels on the ground and his verdict was "ankle flex approximately..........nothing!".
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I have the same problem, i have no flex in my ankles, my heels wont stay on the ground when i try to bend!! i was told that i could either do basic lunges twice a day or have an operation....Im going with the lunges!!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Selly_39, Try using a cross trainer at the gym but keep moving your feet back (maybe a cm each couple of sessions) towards the rear of the platforms until you can reach the back. This gently increases ankle flex - you can lean forewards a little also - but keep your heels planted.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Mon 30-01-06 19:39; edited 1 time in total
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Scarpa, That sounds like a good idea ! Will try this next week at the gym.
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FAQ
- I pulled something on Boxing day while playing with my 10yo nephew and trying to throw each other into the N. Sea 
, although face planting him in the sand could possibly have landed me in more trouble with the rest of the family 
. Digging up and replanting trees in the back garden is clearly not a good therapy 