 Poster: A snowHead
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Can anybody recommend any good ON piste drills that can help with OFF piste technique?
Was thinking of jump turns on my next visit to HH.
Any other pointers or things to think about while on the yo-yo?
Grazie
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Pivot turns, dolphin turns, bumps if they're up, two footed skiing, one ski skiing, loads really.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Diving into yourturns
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ALQ, At HH two foot weighted and ski on the right near the lift track short radius with strong pole plant to get started.no need to jump up and down.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Wow...thanks...you guys are fast!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Cynic, Good idea! I was thinking about the left as the snow can get 'fluffy' on that side.
under a new name, Hmmm....have to think about how to do that.
Mosha Marc, Agreed, there are loads. Just trying to focus on 3 or 4 key drills. For some reason, I find dolphin turns to be toughest, so might add them to the list.
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Diving into turns:- it's more chucking your hips forward and down the hill as soon and as fast as you dare. Try to do it so fast you fall over.
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ALQ, I was looking from the top
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Off piste technique isn't really very different from on-piste technique, but retraction turns (flexing one or both legs at initiation) will really help you. Jump turns are pointless unless you are doing them as a drill for upper body discipline or are planning on going straight into very narrow chutes.
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| jimmer wrote: |
| Off piste technique isn't really very different from on-piste technique |
If that is true, then why do my skis go in different directions (in powder) when I put more weight on the outside ski like I would on piste?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Zero-G, because your technique is poor? 
I suffer from this too and it's just because I'm not controlling my skis properly. I think it's more the fact that when on piste I rely far to much on the outside ski rather than having a more even weight distribution. The underlying techniques though are very similar
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| nbt wrote: |
| Zero-G, because your technique is poor? |
As a card carrying member of the the All The Gear No Idea Society, I cannot deny that!
As a relatively newbie skier, I rely on instructors (I have a lesson each trip) and the instructor I had earlier this trip told me to put my weight on the outside ski and none (or very little) on the inside ski. This was on piste, of course. What he told me wasn't any different from anything previous instructors have told me. So, are they all wrong?
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Zero-G, no, they;re not wrong, that technique will allow you to ski fine in most conditions, and inded your outside ski *should* receive greater pressure than the inside ski. It shouldn't necessarily receive ALL the pressure though, and for greater control, you need more even weighting.
Please bear in mind that I'm not an instructor and am not even a good skiier, I just know what works for me and what I do wrong, though correcting that latter is hard 
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You know it makes sense.
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| Zero-G wrote: |
| As a relatively newbie skier, I rely on instructors (I have a lesson each trip) and the instructor I had earlier this trip told me to put my weight on the outside ski and none (or very little) on the inside ski. This was on piste, of course. What he told me wasn't any different from anything previous instructors have told me. So, are they all wrong? |
Weight/balance distribution will vary depending on the conditions and how you want to ski them. On firm snow I tend to be very outside foot dominant, in powder snow I'm much more balanced across both feet. The skill which is common to both situations is the ability to be laterally balanced where you want to be. The key to skiing all the mountain is to use that skill in whatever way is necessary to maintain good control of your speed and line.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Zero-G, nbt, that's because all of us were taught to do that when we first learned, and we first learned on piste.
It became a bit worse when carving skis showed up, because we were then told to widen our stance too. So now we've got a wider stance and most of our pressure/weight on the outside ski.
But, in deeper snow the inside ski comes into contact with a lot more snow than it does on piste. If you're not trying to turn on that one too; it gets bored and wanders off on it's own accord.
So, get the skis a bit closer together and try to do to the inside ski what you're doing to the outside ski.
Just when you think yer getting the hang of it eh!! 
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Poster: A snowHead
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....and I've got the same disclaimer as nbt, but I have been on the recieving end of a lot of lessons.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Zero-G wrote: |
| jimmer wrote: |
| Off piste technique isn't really very different from on-piste technique |
If that is true, then why do my skis go in different directions (in powder) when I put more weight on the outside ski like I would on piste? |
In which directions do your skis go? If you truly have more weight on your outside than your inside ski, and the same edge angles, all that will happen is that the inside ski will go the same direction as the outside one, what may be the problem is that you start your turns in a snowplough or a stem, in that case then they will be a struggle to get to go the same place.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| jimmer wrote: |
| In which directions do your skis go? |
If it's anything like me, if you try to use the stuff you were taught to use on piste; then the outside ski will sink and go away from you, while the inside ski will come back underneath you.
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think old skool mincing, skis together.....
On piste, hip width apart
off piste, old skool, get your thighs and knees touching, unless your ripping huge wide turns.....
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Or just eurofag on piste too to save the effort of using 2 styles.
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| fatbob wrote: |
| Or just eurofag on piste too to save the effort of using 2 styles. |
I'll have to remove my BASI butt plug to do that though.......
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but you can store that E20 note a bit more securely...
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I know my problem is more related to step turning, but weighting plays a part. I'm working on using parallel all the time but don't get enough skiing time. Any kind offers of holidays so I can practice will be gratefully accepted 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Mosha Marc wrote: |
| jimmer wrote: |
| In which directions do your skis go? |
If it's anything like me, if you try to use the stuff you were taught to use on piste; then the outside ski will sink and go away from you, while the inside ski will come back underneath you. |
If you lose your outside ski, it's generally because you don't have enough weight on it, not because you have too much.
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| kitenski wrote: |
think old skool mincing, skis together.....
On piste, hip width apart
off piste, old skool, get your thighs and knees touching, unless your ripping huge wide turns..... |
I spend an inordinate amount of time unteaching rubbish like this, knees touching!? For the love of god why!?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| jimmer wrote: |
| If you lose your outside ski, it's generally because you don't have enough weight on it, not because you have too much. |
I'd have to disagree with you there, or you've misunderstood what I meant. I meant that if you put too much weight on one ski, it will sink deeper into the snow than the other ski.
And the Euro mincing thing does help strong piste skiers get more two footed in deeper snow.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Mosha Marc wrote: |
| jimmer wrote: |
| If you lose your outside ski, it's generally because you don't have enough weight on it, not because you have too much. |
I'd have to disagree with you there, or you've misunderstood what I meant. I meant that if you put too much weight on one ski, it will sink deeper into the snow than the other ski.
And the Euro mincing thing does help strong piste skiers get more two footed in deeper snow. |
Ahh, I do get what you mean now, when I read 'my outside ski goes away from me' I thought in a divergence (ie directional) sense, rather than vertically. And yes, that can happen, but you can correctly weight your skis with a hip width stance just fine, and you still do need more on the outside than the inside.
I get kind of peeved when people teach zig zaggy, flat ski turns in powder because it's completely unnecessary on todays equipment, high edge angles and round turns all the way!
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Rjimmer, good to be versatile though. Don't you want your pupils to be able to do bouncy fall line wiggles and GS arcs off piste?
And not to follow a rule for weighting each ski but to be able to dynamically adjust as underfoot conditions change? One of the reasons I see people fail at moguls is that they are locked into a single stance width which they've been taught and practised heavily but then can't adjust.
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You know it makes sense.
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I know what you mean, but pivot type steery turns also have their place in the bumped up or icey snow you will probably find as well.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Didn't say anything about not being versatile, just said the whole 'legs together and euromince for off-piste' is outdated and pointless, you can be versatile in a hip width (not very wide at all) stance all over the mountain. I'd consider myself quite a versatile skier, and the only time I have eurominced (unironically) is whilst on a monoski (and even that was a little ironic too). And no, I don't really want my students to do fall line wiggles. Off course there are no rules about skiing, just things that work better, and things that don't.
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Poster: A snowHead
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So, reading the above, the technique for skiing hardpack is and is not different from the technique for skiing powder
In my case, when skiing powder, when I put my weight on the outside ski, the inside ski veers off in the same direction as the outside ski but at a more acute angle, leaving me looking like Bambi sur la glasse! I am too old to be doing the splits, I'll have you know. Sometimes, the inside ski veers off in the opposite direction and the tips cross. In all instances, I face plant. I am the face planting queen.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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jimmer, legs together and euro mince is another tool in the bag, and can be used off piste in certain situations well as a wider stance for longer turns in great snow. I was skiing in Val D'Isere before Xmas and needed both techniques on one run.
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jimmer, sorry mate but fall line wiggles should be in the toolbox, (I do feel quite ill when I see the genuine euromince bum shuffle on or off piste) but are you suggesting floaty, speedy turns for powder in tight trees, gullies or any other narrow sections where keeping speed well under check is required? Off piste skiing requires a blending of skills to suit the wide range of conditions you'll encounter. We don't all just ski huge open powder faces on fat rockers.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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'Euromince' and 'wiggle' to me imply hip movement and a z shaped turn, you can control speed in a round turn and by turning your legs not your hips, your skis/knees/thighs don't have to be together either. I didn't suggest floaty speedy turns anywhere, just round edged ones with your weight predominantly on the outside ski, which are quite well accepted ski instructing basics.
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Zero-G, They shouldn't normally go in different directions. Legs should work parallel and inside ski move simultaneously and follow the outside ski. The problem is that on-piste this deficiency is usually masked unless you ski really slow.
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Best thing I've found for preparing for powder while on piste is playing around with the weight distribution between your feet. If you're used to carving turns on piste, you'll normally have the majority of weight on your outside ski, and it can become quite ingrained as a habit. When you head off into the powder you automatically do this, your outside ski disappears down into the snow and down you go. Simply getting used to the feel of deliberately putting different amounts of weight on each foot when you're skiing on piste can help with this, because when you head into the powder, you typically want to get to more of a 50-50 distribution of weight, particularly in deep soft snow and/or with narrower piste skis. If you are familiar with deliberately distributing weight between your feet, this becomes easier to do. In fact, one thing I found useful at first when I got into harmless easy soft snow was to deliberately put weight on the 'wrong' ski, namely the inside ski - it helped reduce the ingrained outside ski habit.
Having said all this, the easiest way to prepare for going off-piste is to ski on wider skis! A pair of all-mountain skis like the Scott Ventures I skied on last month do a lot to smooth out the difference between the hard snow and the soft snow. You can still carve very well on piste with them, but when you head off into the soft snow, the extra width of the skis mean you float higher in the snow and your basic piste technique doesn't need to be altered nearly so much.
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Focus on making your skis travel forwards all the time.
Most folks rely on a lot of skidding for control and this technique soon falls down on rough stuff.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Yes, that too. If you twist your skis to turn, you'll have problems in soft snow, because the skis sink in (particularly narrow piste skis) and you will not be able to twist them, and will fall down in trying to do so.
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cran
cran
Guest
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Equal weight on each ski, keep the skis close together, and don't force the turns, let the skis turn them selves at the start of the turn.
If you usually ski on piste then try to put more weight on the inside ski, and it might in reality be about equal, I found putting pressure on the front of the inside ski (lifting the tail about 2cm) helped when I was first getting used to turning in powder.
Plant the poles assertively and use them as a pivot and also use jump turns, especially when steep and/or fast.
Bending the knees and getting the body lower can help with speed control and balance.
relax and bounce, take the weight off the skis as you start each turn.
Off piste is easier (certainly less effort and more fun) than on piste imo, but maybe just because it's what I mostly do.
Get a couple of 1 to 1 lessons, it is really easy to learn to ski off piste with a few hours of instruction and a bit of practice... 
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FAQ
