I'm off in a few weeks for my weeks holiday in Austria and I am not intending to have lessons until go to France later on in the year. So I will have a week to ski and practice 'stuff'. As I wrote on the other thread I'd love to be able to aspire to do these dynamic short turns and I wondered what I might practice to work towards them. Is it as straight forward of just visualising them in my minds eye and just trying to copy them or are there drills that I could actually practice. FWIW I don't think I make a a bad job of little short turns down the side of the piste almost bracquage style using the thin line of snow which might be all that is left on an otherwise scraped piste if this is a start to these turns.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Megamum, I find it difficult to think of simple tips or hints to create turns like that. Performance shorts really test all of your fundamental skiing skills. You need to make extremely well timed and accurate movements, blend differing steering mechanisms together to balance the forces you are generating, the terrain that you are skiing and the snow that you are on. The best I can offer is some broad areas for you to work on:
Movement, especially at the start of the turn. You need to learn to edge your ski and stand on it at the same time. You don't want to be pushing your ski sideways to find an edge, and then stand on it.
Rate of movement. You will need to make your movements smooth and progressive, and not 'poppy'.
Timing. This needs to be extremely accurate. Pole plants will help
Rotary separation. Common to all those skiers is a steady upper body, with very little twisting of the shoulders.
Lateral separation. Again, common to all those skiers was the lower body creating steeper angles than the upper body.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Megamum, I don't even need to look at the video....race training!
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Masque,
How do I get these smiley's ?
After all it is free
After all it is free
gatecrasher wrote:
Megamum, I don't even need to look at the video....race training!
Slalom race training
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
gatecrasher, you should have seen the one I was going to use
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Masque, smileyfacesdotcom?
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
gatecrasher, there are many sources, if you download rather than link, virus check the little boogers.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I've read[1] that each turn should be a "wind-up" for the next turn, like a golf swing. You're pointing your upper body down the hill and your lower body is twisted to one side, so it wants to turn back - so you just let them go (with a pole plant to make sure it's your legs that wind back not your torso) and you get the start of your next turn for free.
(but I can't do it so for all I know I'm reading a book full of lies )
[1] "Breakthrough on the new skis", Lito Tejada-Flores
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
look at least 50m in front of you... ie look for the line you want to ski not your skis... I sometimes look down when doing long turns but if I do so doing short turns I lose my rythem...
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much on Mon 14-01-13 21:59; edited 1 time in total
Megamum although I am all for improvement, I do think you need to concentrate on enjoying your skiing rather than beating yourself up about not being perfect at it. Relax and have fun.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Masque, looks like I'm going to have to do some research
czl, not a bad idea...Megamum, have you got any roller blades, one of the camps that Martin Bell runs include roller blading through cones, with pole plants....might not help you but post the video up eh!
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Megamum, here's another one to get you in the mood for training, from about 1.50 on...
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Many thanks for the comments everyone. The skating video was interesting, I've heard edges spoken about in skating, but although I skate a bit, I've never been aware of them or seen them demonstrated like that - couldn't that young lady skate? She made it look so smooth - I guess in the same way that it takes time to become aware of your edges in skiing. Nope I've never been on roller blades or would have anywhere to use a set - perhaps that's just as well.
II, Looking in front of me - I do think I've finally cracked it , I've spent a couple of session in a snow dome in the last 6 weeks and, in particular, during the last trip I remember finally a conscious thought after an hour or so "you're not looking at your feet kid"
rob@rar, trust me to pick something difficult to emulate! Pole Plants Mind you, surely I can't be alone in never having adopted them when I started out and then struggling to remember them later on?
Hells Bells, that would be me all over I've always found skiing more frustrating than fun because I don't seem to have any natural talent for it - every thing I do with it comes hard learned and I can't do it straight away and I don't like not being able to do something. However, I am much better than I was and I can now get around a lot of a pisted mountain . In fact I probably skate better than I ski! and I don't skate at all well - for example, I couldn't do those exercises in the video clip.
gatecrasher, that was lovely to watch, the few seconds beginning @0.38, terrain absorption the gentleman in the latter half has some interesting little habits . . . not going to say what they are though
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Success
After all it is free
After all it is free
gatecrasher, try to be discrete . . . we used to put them in sigs till it got silly and Darth Admin waved his crotch sabre around.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Masque, Yeah, came out bigger than I thought! work in progress...
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Megamum, skating works entorely opposite to skiing in that you ncline ino the turn.
Bad idea on snow...
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Megamum, no you're not alone with taking a while to pick up pole planting, I'm only really just getting there with it. However, when doing turns like these I can manage a pole plant fine every time, I find it helps me as I get into a good rhythm (or the rhythm helps my pole plant!).
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
gatecrasher, great clip. Some wonderfully precise skiing on show.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
under a new name, perhaps that explains why I find skating easier
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Megamum, I think rob@rar, has summed it up pretty well.
I am (I think) a good recreational skier, what your showing in your video is high performance technical skiing, that I really only started to understand and be able to perform as I went down the BASI pathway.
So a simple answer would be get yourself on some performance training courses, I don't think you can learn to ski like that from an internet forum!
regards,
Greg
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
kitenski, +1 more skiing, more lessons
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Masque wrote:
the gentleman in the latter half has some interesting little habits . . . not going to say what they are though
You do know who you're watching, right? Those 'interesting little habits' got him to fifth place on the all-time list of total number of world cup slalom wins, so I guess he's doing something right.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quote:
I am (I think) a good recreational skier, what your showing in your video is high performance technical skiing
This. It's a bit like someone who has just managed to pass Grade 3 piano asking how they can play Bach's Keyboard Concertos like Murray Perahia. Skiing with an Austrian instructor (who in my eyes skied like a God) we did a black run used for a men's downhill. After loads of turns he stopped and said that the corner we were on would be the first turn for a downhill racer. We asked if he could do that and he just laughed. Said that the gap between his ski ability and that of the top technical downhillers was far greater than the gap between his skiing and our skiing. That was quite an eye-opener for me.
If you really want to put in a lot of practice to improve your skills (which is great) I do suggest you buy some of Fastman's instructional videos. The videos on "basic balance" and "basic edging" would be the place to start - coupled with a reading of the website where he emphasises the need to build skills from the bottom up. Yes, it's laborious but for most of us who are not brilliant natural athletes there's no substitute for slog.
The answer to the Bach question would probably be "keep practising, especially your scales and arpeggios, and work towards your Grade 4,"
One specific suggestion, though it's difficult for a working mother, I recognise, is to do one of the intensive clinics run by people like Sally Chapman or Inside Out. A solid week of lessons in the morning, practice in the afternoon and video feedback etc will make a noticeable improvement but having the odd lesson now and then, especially if you don't really focus on the exercises in between times, will probably only serve to help you avoid regressing.
I have had loads of lessons, good ones, I have practiced drills quite a bit and I am a competent holiday skier. I'd love to ski like that video but that's a different planet. How many people do you see from the chairlifts, skiing anything like that?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
rob@rar, yep lovely to watch isn't it, there's a chap I know who doesn't really need to say much during training sessions, just by watching his demonstrations alone... timing, rhythm, fluidity, completely unhurried movements, make everyones skiing improve.
Sideshow_Bob, Could they be why he wasn't 1st.? Look, high performance athletes have to work on the very edge of fine movement control where literally a small habitual hand movement can mean the difference between winning an losing. If someone has years of looking for repetitive movement patterns they are easy to spot an they do not have to be large to have a significant impact on performance. You are welcome to spot them for yourself. His skiing is beautiful and I won't say a word against it, he also has a small repetitive movement pattern difference L&R that could be transitory or permanent, injury or habit.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I can see various miniscule movements that I am pretty confident have no impact whatsoever on the turns he's making and on a page about discussing progressing towards making high-end short radius turns I certainly wouldn't highlight these or describe them as 'interesting' habits, and as a demonstration of high-end turns I'd say it's ideal.
Lots of people have this concept of form-based 'perfect skiing' around certain motions of arms or legs from what they've read or heard about and compare top-end skiers against this model or state that one person is skiing better than another solely based on the observed derogation from this model, but it's often the descriptions or understanding of this model that's lacking (or often physically impossible to achieve), not the skier being analyzed. People are told to keep their hands level or not to incline and will play at armchair quarterback and criticize skiers such as Rocca or Ligety for putting their inside hands down lower than their outside hand and disregard everything else. Back to the piano analogy, this reminds me of a rather OCD friend who'd taken a few piano lessons and got to a reasonable standard but was very critical of Lang Lang's performance in the Beijing opening ceremony, stating that while his playing was 'reasonable', he'd be so much better if he kept his head absolutely still, just like my friend had drummed into him by his piano teacher.
this reminds me of a rather OCD friend who'd taken a few piano lessons and got to a reasonable standard but was very critical of Lang Lang's performance in the Beijing opening ceremony, stating that while his playing was 'reasonable', he'd be so much better if he kept his head absolutely still, just like my friend had drummed into him by his piano teacher.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Sideshow_Bob, watch his leg movements and subsequent ski positioning. Above the waist he is superbly even in his motion. Skiing at this level is incredibly nuanced, the tiniest things make a difference. I'm sure a hell not going to say they are wrong, that would be extraordinary stupid and crass, only that his body consistently moves in a different and small way left and right, any influence that may have in his skiing is for him and his race coach to decide to act on or dismiss.
In the same way, we all do this and usually to a much greater extent. It took me ages to make a consistent drop into a left tele turn, Because I'm right handed my right leg is not as stable as my left even though slightly stronger. Different movement patterns so different ski control and different or failed turns. We all do it and for recreational skiing at even a very high level it's probably completely immaterial to our pleasure or safety. For racing it's win or lose. One of the reasons I loath racing being used as examples for us plebs.
After all it is free
After all it is free
gatecrasher, excellent vid! Really makes the hairs on my neck stand up.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Megamum, one thing that you could concentrate on is flowing turns, spend the same time in a left turn as a right. Counting may hel, ie 1 2 3 turn.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
)
Mind you, surely I can't be alone in never having adopted them when I started out and then struggling to remember them later on?
the gentleman in the latter half has some interesting little habits . . . not going to say what they are though 
