 Poster: A snowHead
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Ok, so my shins aren't bruised, and out of my ski boots i can push and poke them with no pain or issue at all - everything looks normal. From what I can tell, shin bang is when the shin bruises, and a result of landing backseat or something, so this isn't shin bang?
When I put my ski boots on, it gives me a pronounced ache feeling at the top of the cuff of my boot. I've tried with the stock power straps, with nothing, with boosters inside the shell and on the outside of the shell. No difference noticed.
I'm wondering if this is actually a boot issue or something wrong with my shins? I've been skiing 5+ days a week since the start of the season, a days rest seems to make no odds.
Any ideas?
Cheers,
Dave
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Have you tried a different insole?
I recently have ditched my conformables which were tired for some superfeet's. I instantly noticed I had more eel lift and my foot is placed more back, while a tad higher in the boot and I've had to readjust the cuff and the buckles etc. Worth a try..
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I had green superfeet but recently got custom orthotics to fill the gap i had in my instep and get some arch support - they helped with another issue but the shin thing is ongoing...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Crossposted from Epic, just to update this - been to the physio twice now and got a bit of a better understanding of what's going on.
It's not shinbang, or shin splints - it's the outside two shin muscles. They're thickened and irritated at my ankle and the pain from that is felt higher in the shin.
What I'm not sure about is the cause - the symptoms are apparently similar to a twisted ankle, but it's in both ankles. I did have a pretty bad twist on my right ankle about six weeks ago, but the left has been fine.
From talking to my physio, potential causes are:
* Overcranking bottom cuff buckle without having upper cuff as tight - difference in pressure is putting strain on the muscles. I'm tightening the lower buckle to keep my heel in the heel pocket as otherwise I get heel lift.
* Shell not pivoting in the correct place - ankle flexing below where boot is pivoting so causing strain
* Overflexing the boot (as I guessed earlier and CEM agreed could be a cause)
I was recommended Intuition liners to improve cushioning and heel hold. However, I'm wondering if #2 and #3 are the issue that my shell is at fault.
So, I'm thinking my options are either a new liner and hope this fixes it, or a new boot. Am I missing any options or potential causes?
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bloxy
bloxy
Guest
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| DaveC wrote: |
* Shell not pivoting in the correct place - ankle flexing below where boot is pivoting so causing strain
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There has been quite a big thing in the US about how boots work. Basically some boots have a longitudinal flex which is deemed to be desirable as the lower leg and knee move straight over the ski, other boots have a rotational flex causing the knee and lower leg to drop inside and this is deemed to be undesirable. It could well be that your current setup forces this rotation movement on flexion causing the symptoms you describe. Boots and orthotics can be adjusted to give corect ramp angles and knee tracking to correct this.
Not tried it my self but just a thought
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| Quote: |
There has been quite a big thing in the US about how boots work. Basically some boots have a longitudinal flex which is deemed to be desirable as the lower leg and knee move straight over the ski, other boots have a rotational flex causing the knee and lower leg to drop inside and this is deemed to be undesirable
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sounds like the Harb school of bootfitting and IMO utter trash..... and my basis for this statement the fact that the skis and boots that he and his disciples all skied on for a few seasons fell out of favour when he found his next favourite product now him and his entire following can be seen skiing around on the same set up
I recently had the pleasure of sorting a pair of boots which had been harbed...... race boot with a very badly finished footbed and a pile of foam stuffed down the tongue to reduce the rotation and the shin pain that resulted....how about just building a proper footbed in the first place
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bloxy
bloxy
Guest
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| Quote: |
| sounds like the Harb school of bootfitting and IMO utter trash |
Yep! Unconvinced by Harb myself.
The principle of a proper orthotic to control knee and lower leg still stands, as you said, build a proper foot bed. One simple starting point I supose would be to consider shaft alignment with the canting built into the boot. The next thing would be to ensure correct alignment and all the stuff you can obviously do with shims and planing etc.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| DaveC wrote: |
Ok, so my shins aren't bruised, and out of my ski boots i can push and poke them with no pain or issue at all - everything looks normal. From what I can tell, shin bang is when the shin bruises, and a result of landing backseat or something, so this isn't shin bang?
When I put my ski boots on, it gives me a pronounced ache feeling at the top of the cuff of my boot. I've tried with the stock power straps, with nothing, with boosters inside the shell and on the outside of the shell. No difference noticed.
I'm wondering if this is actually a boot issue or something wrong with my shins? I've been skiing 5+ days a week since the start of the season, a days rest seems to make no odds.
Any ideas?
Cheers,
Dave |
You've just described the EXACT pain I have got in my shins EVERY ski holiday. Very interested to hear what your final solution is. Thanks for asking the question!
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Just want to resurrect this post.
I too have a similar problem. I was touring this year and only after 5 ours of up it caused this problem. There was no downhill skiing involved.
My shins were ultra painful in the boot but to touch, rub or walk out of the boot was perfectly fine. I am sure it isn't shin splints as I heard that it would hurt to walk or put pressure on even when the boots were off?
Thoughts?
Tim
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Better fitting boots, and learning to not ski on the fronts. Probably 50/50 technique and equipment - I did four more seasons since that post and didnt have any more trouble.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I know this is a really old post, but my problem is very similar. I've just got new boots so the fitter has told me to come back so he can adjust them which will hopefully solve the problem. I could be guilty of over cranking the heel buckle, but the main thing I wanted to ask was what you mean by
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learning to not ski on the fronts.
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please
DaveC. Thanks.
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HelenS, A lot of people (me included) apply too much forward pressure on the boot resulting in painful shins. I'm pretty sure what Dave means is to adopt a more centred stance so that there is less pressure on the tongue of the boot (less ankle flex).
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You know it makes sense.
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I DO love bio mechanics . . .  I'm also enormously grateful never to have suffered any of this in any of my boots, you guys have my deepest sympathy.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Thanks, but now I'm really confused! I though 'getting forward' by flexing at the ankles was the whole point???  I was certainly getting more forward in my new boots,so I guess that explains it.
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Poster: A snowHead
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HelenS, staying centred (so that you can apply pressure to the front of the shins) is the point, not hanging on the front of the boot
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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HelenS, Try and balance on the arch of your feet. Look at the underside of your ski boots for the mark that allows the boots to be aligned to the bindings, balance on that point. Try standing tall and flexing low all of the time balancing on that point, try not to feel pressure moving towards your toes or heels. What should be happening is that your hips are staying above your feet and you'll be flexing your ankle, knee and hip joints.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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all assumong she has sufficent dorsiflexion left after delta is subtracted, you should, when correctly balanced feel no preasure at the front or the back of the coller and equal preasure at the heel and the ball of the foot. once we've got this we can then look at the effect of binding delta and finding correct mounting point.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Ah, thanks everyone I think I get it now! So ... I was just reading about the Skia sweetspot trainer - might that help me identify the right point too? Will look at my boots and try the balancing.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Apart from the technique advice - which is very important- what should also help is warming up properly. You have to stretch the muscles and tendons of your lower leg before stress loading them. (i) Wall stetches and (ii) kneeling on the floor (front of each foot on the floor) leaning back and holding are both good for lower leg stretching. I do five sets of 10 secs on each before skiing (compres/extend - release). There's also a tendon called the IPT band that runs past the knee towards the hip. If you can get hold of a foam roller, work on your IPT's (place your thigh on top of the roller and start to move backwards and forwards with all your lower body weight on the roller and your upper body supported by your flat arm on the floor). Initally it feels like someone is torturing you. Persist and the pain eventually subsides - that's a sign you've loosened both bands up.
All of this is generally good for you, ski specifically it helps with all sorts of lower leg and foot issues. Don't rush it and if you start to feel persistent pain (when not stretching) - take medical advice.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| HelenS wrote: |
| Ah, thanks everyone I think I get it now! So ... I was just reading about the Skia sweetspot trainer - might that help me identify the right point too? Will look at my boots and try the balancing. |
Exactly!
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Excellent. I think this thread has just solved why I ended up in the past with bruising on my shins! I'd been confusing keeping the weight centred with trying to push my weight in to the front of the boot.
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Crell, Ah all that time you needed a psychologist not a podiatrist
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I agree with the over cranking and the resulting poor fitting boot, but does it not also depend on how aggressive you are skiing and the type of skis, or type of turns you are making. For instance if I am skiing small turns at constant speed on my stockli sc slalom carvers I will generally need to apply less forward pressure to initiate the turn than my stockli stormrider 95's. Both are pretty stiff skis and the former is mounted with a vist race plate, however the carvers are need much less input to effect the turn.
I would also feel that the flex of the boot may have some input as its easier to flex the ankle in a softer boot.
I got back last weekend from three weeks skiing and suffered a bit of tenderness on my shins, i have never suffered before so i'd put it down to two things;
- skiing larger radius (mx104 and stormrider 95's) on piste aggressively and more often than not, because of how busy it was, in shorter rather than longer turn shapes
- and that my liners started to bag out noticeably towards the end of week two and got progressively worse over the final week. As a result I ended up cranking the boots tighter , or as tight as i could manage and they were still sloppy. A visit to CEM before the next trip is on the cards.
PS does anyone know if the size or volume of our feet changes with altitude?
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| Mt wrote: |
| on my stockli sc slalom carvers I will generally need to apply less forward pressure to initiate the turn than my stockli stormrider 95's. Both are pretty stiff skis and the former is mounted with a vist race plate, however the carvers are need much less input to effect the turn. |
Possibly because you can use the tail of the SCs more efficiently at the end of the turn to kick the new initiation.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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When skinning you are often advised to loosen the upper clips on boots, leading immediately to loose boots which is one of the causes of sore shins. I think I suffered a little from shin rubbing in the loose boots and thus shin discomfort. The ski shop sold me some thin pads that fit between shin and sock, they stick to the skin and take the rubbing. The pads are oval shaped, maybe 200x100mm and less than 2mm thick.
Even Wikipedia has some words about Shin-bang.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Mt wrote: |
| does anyone know if the size or volume of our feet changes with altitude? |
Altitude, exercise and dehydration all make your feet swell up so skiing is pretty fatal in that regard! Oh, and time of day - feet are bigger in the afternoon than the morning. Pure altitude swelling affects some people more than others and apparently only starts at around 2000m. My feet are certainly larger after a couple of days in the alps than at sea level which I believe is due to the combination of altitude and residual dehydration primarily.
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| Raceplate wrote: |
| My feet are certainly larger after a couple of days in the alps than at sea level which I believe is due to the combination of altitude and copious quantities of alcohol . |
there you go, fixed it for you 
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Raceplate, I know what you mean I just love the kick I get from the SC's but I do the same with bigger skis it just seems to take more effort and loading. Maybe I'm doing it something wrong!!
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Poster: A snowHead
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| DaveC wrote: |
I'm wondering if this is actually a boot issue or something wrong with my shins? I've been skiing 5+ days a week since the start of the season, a days rest seems to make no odds.
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Sorry Dave, have no advice re your shins, but could you tell me where you're getting 5+ days a week skiing in Bristol?
I'm in Bath and would love to join you;), albeit for just maybe the odd 2-3 days a week
Cheers
Seán
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