 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi folks,
New snowhead here. Always wanted to Ski but could never convince the wife -- she's a doctor and doesn't like fast sports in general (it took me 14 years of marriage before she let me on a motorbike, and I only managed that by threatening to learn to fly!). At the start of this year I played the "it would be good for the kids to learn" card so we took lessons in Hemel Hempstead (up to their "main slope ready" level), then went out to Chamrousse in early April for a week, with ESF lessons in the morning and skiing together in the afternoons. The snow was good (experienced people were saying that it's better than they've ever seen there for that time of year) and we all absolutely loved it, the wife more than anyone! It's great to have found something that our whole family enjoys and really glad that we finally bit the bullet and did so.
So, we're now back in Chamrousse for two weeks over Christmas and New Year. I know, some of you will say it's a boring resort, but it suits us very well. No nightlife is no problem (we're early forties, our eldest is 10 and our twins are  , there aren't billions of "Brits on Tour (tm)", the instruction is very good and the slopes are easily enough for our level of skiing. It's a very French resort, but I have enough schoolboy French to get along and we're enjoying not just the skiing but the whole French experience. We stay in apartments which are literally at the bottom of a ski-lift (Bachat-Bouloud), and skiing to and from the door is a real convenience. All in all, we love Chamrousse 
Now for the reason for the post. Yesterday there was some trouble with the Bachat-Bouloud chairlift. Not entirely sure what happened, but on our last ride up of the day, it just stopped very suddenly perhaps five or six times. For a couple of those, we were right in the middle between two posts, and it bounced so severely that we all got very scared. My daughter was crying, the boys had their eyes closed, and the wife and I were holding onto the kids for dear life. We ended up singing Christmas Carols to try and get the kids minds off it, and it was a pretty traumatic experience all round.
Now the kids are somewhat wary of going...although they love skiing, they're obviously apprehensive this morning (we're leaving in about 20 minutes). My wife is worried because during the lessons in the morning the kids will be "by themselves" -- the ESF instructors feed the kids in with other skiers, making sure that there's always an adult there...but we're just worried that if it does happen again, the kids will be scared and with a stranger and...oh I don't know, we're parents we worry, it's part of the job.
So what I'm looking for is some reassurance. Does this kind of thing happen often? Is it absolutely unheard-of for a lift to "drop off"? (I can't believe I asked that buy my wife asked me to!). What advice could we give to the children apart from "hold on tight, close your eyes, don't worry if you drop your poles just hold on tight"?
Sorry to have a whiny-complainy first post, but appreciate any advice/reassurance you can provide
Cheers,
-simon
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The bouncy chair lift between to pylons scenario is, I'm afraid, not particularly unusual. If you imagine small person having a bit of a tumble getting off the chair at the top you can sumise that the guys operating the lift may need to stop it fairly suddenly in order to a) assist child and b) prevent others skiing into that child. Happens all the time and, while there is no such thing as 'never', in my 30 years of skiing I've never heard of a chair falling off the line.
Don't panic, you'll all be fine.
Happy skiing!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Make sure they wear a helmet, this will save them!!! 
On a serious note, as the post says above, it does happen quite a lot, and the worst place is between two of the pylons.
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AFAIK it's virtually impossible for a chairlift to 'fall off'. If they are not fixed correctly there's a safety mechanism which stops the whole thing from moving. The biggest danger, if you can call it that, is if the chairlift breaks down and you are stuck on it for hours. A rare occurrence but not unheard of. Plus the various incidents that can happen getting on and off the lift, but once you're on it, as long as you don't wriggle about and slide off the seat, you're pretty safe. Relax and enjoy the views!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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1. It happens occasionally but not that often.
2. The chair will not fall off.
3. They will get over it after a few more trips on the lifts.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Szymon, I'm sure the first time everyone experiences a chairlift bounce it was a traumatic experience, especially if you're riding with your family. I still find it disconcerting even though it's happened countless times, but it is quite normal and very common. Just consider it one of the little quirks of skiing, and explain to your family that it will happen again and is nothing to be alarmed about.
PS: Welcome to snowHeads and well done for persevering and introducing your family to skiing.
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It may not be possible for chair to fall off, but very possible for small child to fall out. Happened to boy (I think 8 or 9) in US last year. Have good talk with your kids re not messing in chair. I have been the unsuspecting adult last year with 2 or 3 kids from a ski-school shoved into chair with me and was the most nerve-wracking 10 minutes of my entire trip what with the messing kids were getting up to
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It is disconcerting, but just tell them to hold on tight and keep looking up/ahead ie not down. Worst I have experienced was on a chair in the US which (as is fairly typical in America) did not have a bar, stopped suddenly on an exposed ascent so was bouncing and swinging - I hated it, and it seemed like we sat there for ever, but we survived. Glad you are all enjoying skiing, have a great holiday.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| patricksh wrote: |
| It may not be possible for chair to fall off, but very possible for small child to fall out. Happened to boy (I think 8 or 9) in US last year. Have good talk with your kids re not messing in chair. I have been the unsuspecting adult last year with 2 or 3 kids from a ski-school shoved into chair with me and was the most nerve-wracking 10 minutes of my entire trip what with the messing kids were getting up to |
A lot of the larger chairs seem to have at least one or two child slots which has a plastic bit on the bar that goes between the legs to stop them sliding down and out. I'm sure it's fine for kids, but it doesn't half get in the way when you're an adult
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Just lie to them. Tell them you've asked a bunch of people on the internet, and one guy said that it was the first time he'd ever heard of it happening (don't tell them about this bit in brackets which points out that is an obvious lie), but that the lifts are incredibly safe - they do not come off that wire ever, even when 6 drunk blokes make them swing backwards, forwards and side to side in time with singing rowdy songs.
Plus if it does ever happen again, they are already on the lift and already on holiday. So you can just ditch them and tell them to suck it up.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Detachable chairs can fail although this is rare. I've seen it happen to a Gondola in Val D'isere which uses similar cable clamps.
Whilst the chair is unlikely to come off or the cable to break, the cable can derail from the pylon arms with the same consequences ! Again this has happened but is very rare.
The suden shut down is probably caused by a derailment or other sensor detecting a fail and immediately braking the system.
My main concern with chairlifts, particularly at this time of year, is a system failure which then requires rescue. On a cold day it could be very serious having to wait several hours . I feel safer on drag lifts 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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... play it like my parents did with thunderstorms. They did the whole 'this is cool and hilarious' (and locked away my grandmother who was massively scared and superstitious, so I couldn't 'learn' fear from her) and now I love storms ...?
We have a friend who doesn't like it when they stop. Of course, as we're adults and arseh0les, we play 'birthday death' (it stopped high and for a while on her birthday, and now it's always 'birthday death' whether it's birthday or not) - which is basically looking down and singing 'birthday death'. But that actually helped my slight nervousness when it does massive rocking over much height - singing out 'BIRTHDAY DEEEAAAATH' - makes it's funny, not scary. (I'm nuts. May not work for all.)
But it's pretty damn safe (so long as they don't slip under). Like a roller coaster - bouncy scary does not equal unsafe, so assume it's safe and a bit stomach wibbly and make a point of finding it giggly... "Whoop and dooowwwn". Like plane turbulence - choose to enjoy the ride, or get scared and have a crap flight. Neither changes the outcome.
So - advice - tell them to make happy noises and take the p!ss out off each other.
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Szymon, Just tell them they're getting a free go on an adventure playground
oh and to put you're mind at rest about the evacuation thing, it's very well practised, and yet very uncommon. here's a photo of the practising - no it won't be you getting up on top of the chair!
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You know it makes sense.
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Just watch out for wolves
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Bouncing chairs lifts are worst with a hangover...... watch out below 
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Poster: A snowHead
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I've seen a chair clamp not secure at Leysin and the chair (unoccupied) was swinging wildly from side to side, but it stayed on the wire.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well folks, thanks for all of your advice . I've been reading (most of) the replies to the family as I see them on the iPhone, and it's helped calm them down. There was a strong wind today and it got a bit scary when the Roche Beranger lift stopped at one point, but I explained it was all normal and everyone was OK with it.
Thanks so much for all your words of advice!
By the way, to the folks sneering about helmets...pretty sure a helmet saved my Andy's life today. He managed to go at high speed into a wall today, hitting it thoroughly with his head and face. He has skin scraped off his cheek and it's a little bruised, but the helmet stopped the worst of it today. Frankly, sneer all you want, as far as I'm concerned they're compulsory.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Szymon, a frickin wall? Where on earth was there a wall that close to a ski slope? No netting? Is your mate Andy capable of stopping and turning at the speeds he is travelling at? Sounds either like a dangerous design or a dangerous person to be around.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Monium wrote: |
| Szymon, a frickin wall? Where on earth was there a wall that close to a ski slope? No netting? Is your mate Andy capable of stopping and turning at the speeds he is travelling at? Sounds either like a dangerous design or a dangerous person to be around. |
Monium Andy is my 10 year old son, and the wall was the inside of a bridge. It has padding on it in the middle, but not right at the start, where he hit. The place is a pretty sharp left turn which goes under a bridge, and after the bridge it goes *up*, so you need to get up a bit of speed as you turn (otherwise you'll be hauling yourself up the other side). Andy is actually pretty good at controlling his speed, but my 8 year old daughter turned into his path just at the wrong moment and in a valiant attempt not to crash into her he left the turn too late and went bam right into the wall, just before the padding starts...
He's OK though so all is good
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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See if you can get a copy of Frozen to watch on DVD tonight :0)
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Szymon, blinking heck. Hope tomorrow is less eventful and hope that your lad is ok. I find it hard not to wear a helmet when your kids are, and keeps my bald head warm.
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Szymon,
if Andy's helmet took a serious bash, I would consider that it's done its job and should be replaced, although as a biker, your probably aware of that. If there is any visible signs of damage to the outer shell, or flattening of the dense foam inside, the helmet will have lost some of its absorbtion ability. Glad he's OK.
Wives who are medics are a pest, far to aware of what might happen, especailly to loved ones. They're second only to H&S Officers 
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Does rule 5 apply to kids?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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If its the bridge on the way back down to Roche Berenger, here's a link to it from the downhill side...
http://tinyurl.com/d9odne3
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| robapplegate wrote: |
| Does rule 5 apply to kids? |
Don't know but 8 year old daughter certainly applied it to me when she thought my torn calf muscle might cut her skiing short!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Rule 5.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Its the bridge on the Liaison Recoin-Roche, where it passes under a drag lift, not the one in the picture.
What's rule 5?
Today was actually a very good day . In the evening we went to see all the resorts ESF instructors ski down the mountain carrying flaming torches, followed by Pere Noel in a sleigh pulled by dogs! There was hot chocolate for the kids and chocolate with something strong in it for the grown-ups. All in all a fun day, all things considered.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Masque, I have the same sense of balance as a house elf. Chair lifts are a nightmare.....can barely reach. Socks? Any item of clothing will do.....
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Nadenoodlee wrote: |
| Rule 5. |
MTFU well i believe that is rule 5 in the road cycling hand book...sure the skiing one apply equally
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Szymon, ah, kids, understood. I had visions of a mental middle-aged bloke either massively out of control or unable to avoid an obvious obstacle. Glad he's ok, the bridge thing explains it more - I had visions of a wall somewhere alongside or at the bottom of a piste.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Yeah, thanks for that video, I won't be sharing it 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Szymon, Sorry, couldnt resist. Have a great day.
I have had my two girls (ten and seven) on maybe ten trips between them but they have never been scared on lifts. Keep hold of the youngest as she is tiny.
I can only imagine they pick up fear from around those around them. Maybe with other kids it wouldnt be so bad as kids do seem to just accept things, "thats just how it is".
Once they become used to the lifts it wont even register.
P.s. there are some worse ones on youtube, but i wouldnt go looking if i were you. 
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My now 8 year old was a bit concerned the first time she was on a lift that stopped but now (this winter will be her fourth ski trip to the mountains) just views it as an annoyance that is eating into her skiing time. I'm sure they'll get used to it before long.
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In case you're in any doubt, rescues from cable cars, gondolas and chairs are practised - last year when we were in Chamrousse, the gondola being closed for most of one day was made up for by the spectacle of folks (mainly soldiers, actually) being lowered by rope, or lifted by helicopter from the cabins. That was the week before most half terms started, so I suspect they were getting a practice in before the busiest part of the season. The helicopter did make a bit of a mess of the terrace at the cafe at the top!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Szymon, Good to see your all OK and enjoying the holiday, anyone who makes an adverse comment on the benefits of wearing a helmet, to my mind has probably had a bash on the head and lost their marbles, I would not dream of letting my 8 year old ski or cycle without a helmet, as you have experienced accidents can and do happen, we all wear helmets now, a simple fall can leave you bashing your head on a hard piste or worse.
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When I took my kids, years ago to Pamporovo, there was a single seat chair lift... The dilemma was: do I go first to show it's safe and be there to help off, or help them on hoping the liftie would help them off but I'd be able to keep an eye on them and shout instructions from behind...
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FAQ
