 Poster: A snowHead
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Just back from a fab week in Selva one observation from the week (other than I would highly recommend the area) is that it appears to me that the relationship between skill and speed appears to be getting more blurry every year, by which I mean that the number of people who do go fast far exceeds those with the appropriate skills to do so.
I’m not sure if people aren’t being taught the basics anymore e.g. respect other users, people ahead of you have the right of way etc… But the number of times that you see people wiped out or almost wiped out by some numpty straight lining down a crowded slope appears to me to becoming more widespread.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Ski industry to blame for producing carving skis !
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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stanton, given that straightlining is actuslly a) more difficult and b) rather slower on carving slis than on straights, I suggest you are talking tosh.
We've seen a lot of this sort of idiocy in 2alpes recently, God knows what it's going to be like in February. 
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Lizzard, have to agree - have seen a lot more of it this year on both snow (Scotland) and on dry believe it or not!
Very strange indeed and it aint the skis!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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A lot less people spending money on continuing their ski lessons, when I started to ski (several decades ago) it was common practice for many skiers to continue taking lessons long after they had learnt the basics, that seems far less common now and the desire to go fast seems to be especially important to small but noticeable group of lunatics for who control has no meaning
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young males in black balaclava's scare me..
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It's those guys who tell us that they had 1.5 lessons, then just copied their mates and can "get down anything". You can spot 'em a mile away from the chairlift.
I think this thread needs photos - maybe I'll try to take some in the next few days. How about a competition?
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david@mediacopy, Welcome to Norn Iron 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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stanton, I don't think you see nearly as many people falling as you used to. So collisions are the new falls? Best tell your lawyer first
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The particular desire for speed does appear to be more common in our Eastern European cousins who were by far the biggest group in Selva. We had a couple of private lessons in Andorra last year and the instructor basically told us that the Russian mindset is to learn everything in a two hour lesson: Learn how to put skis on do a couple of blues, "now we do red", do a couple of reds "now we do black" do a couple of blacks job done education over.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
(OK - I know the experts all ride them too, but what did they do before there were fats....?)
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Jump turns.
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Gogs, I'd say it's more 'cos the Russians are crazy, and often are less fearful than others. Certainly in kayaking/whitewater it's very well documented that Russians seem to have less regard for their own safety than most other nationalities. Stereotyping of course, but I mean it in quite a semi-admiring way.
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(OK - I know the experts all ride them too, but what did they do before there were fats....?)
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Ski slower, more turns, smaller jumps/cliffs...
If 'they' did away with grooming there'd be less of this blue-run-hero-too-fast-no-control stuff, as people would actually have to learn how to ski!
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You know it makes sense.
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As an almost Russian . . . We're much cheerier in Ukraine . . . Russians are not crazy, they just have a highly developed sense of fatality. I work on the principle, 'If it's time to worry about it it's already too late, just deal with the consequences. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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johnboy,
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| D G Orf wrote: |
| A lot less people spending money on continuing their ski lessons, when I started to ski (several decades ago) it was common practice for many skiers to continue taking lessons long after they had learnt the basics, that seems far less common now and the desire to go fast seems to be especially important to small but noticeable group of lunatics for who control has no meaning |
Yes you are right
But extending this point; i am sure i read on here a month or so ago, a thread being responded to by many of the reasonably commentators on here, extolling the virtues of skiing at eth edge of control - the "5% thread or something like that "
So, are we saying it's ok for us reasonable skiers to ski on eth edge of control, but the normal rabble on the slopes can'T ?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| david@mediacopy wrote: |
| young males in black balaclava's scare me.. |
Yeah, me too. What is it with the obsession to hide their faces?
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| sev112 wrote: |
So, are we saying it's ok for us reasonable skiers to ski on eth edge of control, but the normal rabble on the slopes can'T ?
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Perfectly fine to ski like a bat out of hell on an empty piste. The problems start to occur when you do it on a busy blue.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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No such thing, speed is your friend, you'll learn to control it. Boooom
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sev112, I didn't interpret that thread as implying that it was any virtue to ski on the edge of control?
Also, there is a difference between being on the edge of control and with no means to reciver it should you lose it, and being at the edge of your ability knowing that if it all goes pear shaped (eg you get spat out of the rutline) you can recover, stop in time and are no danger to others.
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| Quote: |
but everyone seems to obsess about carving these days, and this tends result in "riding the rails at speed" with much faster wider radius turns.
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Also if someone is genuinely carving clean arc-to-arc turns, they are likely to be good enough to be in control at a good speed.
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All i can sense in this sense is a massive amount of resentment from the older skiers that they spent more on ski lessons than many people learning now and still use predominantly short swing turns
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
Also if someone is genuinely carving clean arc-to-arc turns, they are likely to be good enough to be in control at a good speed.
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They're going to have enough skill anyway to dump their speed really pretty quickly as soon as it becomes necessary
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rambotion, you're not paying enough attention then. Hope you're not reading out of control.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| clarky999 wrote: |
| Also if someone is genuinely carving clean arc-to-arc turns, they are likely to be good enough to be in control at a good speed. |
Spot on and it's worth noting that most people who 'think' they're carving aren't - they're just bombing down slopes and at best railing the skis, at worst doing the occassional sloppy skidded turn which on icy slopes at speed means they're all the more likely to come a cropper and perhaps take someone out along the way.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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rambotion, +1 
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You know it makes sense.
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sev112, beyond you're COMFORT ZONE maybe? Which would be very different to skiing outside of your control.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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maybe - it's an interesting thought
I'll have to search harder for that original thread
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Poster: A snowHead
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It does seem to be an issue - several near misses last week around 3 valleys. Some resorts definitely worse than others - the beginner resorts seem to be full of people who are unable to stop, unable to turn, even when apparently in control they managed to put themselves in the way of others who were downhill of them, made their intentions clear, and forced quick turns to avoid collision.
I remembered when your first week on snow you were in lessons 9-5 for 6 days. That's what it took to learn to ski. And at the end of that most people weren't very good. Carving skis, internet tuition and ill-advised mates seem to encourage a DIY attitude to skiing, and that can result in people who just haven't spent enough time learning how to control their speed, stay safe, and avoid danger on the piste. Sadly, the ones who seem to come out worst in these situations isn't the idiot straightlining it, it's the person they hit from behind.
This is the one of the major reasons we wear helmets now.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Monium,
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Sadly, the ones who seem to come out worst in these situations isn't the idiot straightlining it, it's the person they hit from behind.
This is the one of the major reasons we wear helmets now.
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Absolutely and me too.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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and me, though I don't know why I am bothered really, as I've had only 2 collisions despite skiing a lot in the past eight years. One was a little lad who overtook me down a steep red, following a much better mate. He misjudged it and hit the front of my skis, going a hell of a cropper. I just fell gracefully over sideways - skis stayed on. He was very apologetic. The next was much worse, and a grownup Frenchman who should have known better, hit me absolutely out of the blue from behind - I just heard a scrape and then - BOOM! I had been turning in a boring and predictable fashion down a blue run to a lift - I know it well, I know the camber is a bit odd, I know the snow (artificial) isn't great - I was turning like clockwork and he had no excuse at all for hitting me. I was carrying a backpack with a thermos flask, which got broken, and my ribs weren't the same for weeks.
But that's twice in many, many, weeks. Fortunately we ski in an area where collisions are rare, and we don't stay here in the crowded weeks. But I still see too many people going too fast for their ability (which might not be very fast at all, of course). Three idiots today, who could scarcely ski at all, falling one after another on an easy red piste (though I suspect the snow was very slick - I was on a lift, not on the slope) , skis strewn all over the shop, general carnage. No way should they have been on that slope. A sharp telling off by a ski patroller would go quite a long way in that sort of situation, I think.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Following a big collision, a couple of years ago, when I was hit from behind (thank you helmet) we now use radios (plus throat mics and earpieces) to warn each other of any idiots coming down between us.
Provides an instant warning and works a treat. Great when hunting powder to know that the piste behind is clear.
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under a new name, thanks, that's the one
There's defintely at least 3 people on there who are suggesting skiing past your actual point of control.
Obviously the key here is what Rob says - empty piste ok , otherwise not
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There was one point, as the runs come into Meribel, where I think they actually needed a piste controller waving people in, others to stop, and that was the second week of January. Having seen it, I just wouldn't stay there in busy season. I had a snowboarder coming towards me, on his back edge, just going "woah, woah, woah" so I widened my stance a little and shouted where he could stick his "woah, woah, woah" as he got closer. Still got to within a foot of my skis though...
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| sev112 wrote: |
There's defintely at least 3 people on there who are suggesting skiing past your actual point of control.
Obviously the key here is what Rob says - empty piste ok , otherwise not |
I think the advocates there are referring to skiing on the point of control while having enough tricks left in the back pocket (hockey stops, skids/smears, more agricultural turns) to avoid being a danger to others.
Though this is probably at a different level to the blue run heroes who are holding it together on their heels, calling mars, jester hat flapping in the breeze.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| fatbob wrote: |
| calling mars, |
Doing what?
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There's many a time I've been on the verge of a serious beating for suggesting to a Brit that they don't have the skills to ski as fast as they were, having followed them down a slope. However, put on an official looking jacket, flash some sort of i.d. and sound officious and things turn out differently.
I was a rep for Neilson with a nice liveried jacket, I pulled out an Italian i.d. and spoke italian into my mobile while ballocking a group 20something Brits who were being complete wonkers. I threatened to take their lift passes off them. Watching the collective bravado quickly ebb away to be replaced by snivelling apology was priceless.
I did see them later in the week and admitted all. They all laughed but conceded that they were being tw@ts and that it was a good lesson.
I think we all have a responsibility to tell people when they are being dangerous. Also, ski poles make excellent skewers if you have an out of control lump wind-milling towards you.
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FAQ
, but afraid I've got to agree with 
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