 Poster: A snowHead
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Could some one point me to a good article on line that explains the correct method for doing parallel turns? I’m interested in all aspects of the turn such as weight distribution, when to stand, when to bend down etc
I have looked at the following site to get an idea but have read on these forums that the methods on that site are outdated
http://www.mechanicsofsport.com/skiing.html
The reason I want to read up about this is not to teach myself but to get an understanding of the correct method to use
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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jimmybog, no such thing as a single correct method, other than having your skis parallel all the way through the turn. Everything else can vary depending on the context of what you are skiing. If you want a good reference on how skiing works take a look at Ron LeMaster's book.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Lean. Wait. Repeat other side Thats it in a nutshell
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| madmole wrote: |
| Lean. Wait. Repeat other side Thats it in a nutshell |
You want to kill him?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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No such thing as a pure parallel turn says my ski race maestro sitting beside me.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
You want to kill him?
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I think what the 'nutshell' part of the comment referred to - that's about the amount of body matter they'd be able to retrieve.
jimmybog, it's all about weight transition and timing. If you don't rise and fall at the right parts of the turn you will never get it. Apart from the sterling advice above, this is the one bit of skiing where I do think an instructor on the slopes cannot really be replaced. I'd suggest you get a leson or two at Milton Keynes or Hemel. Then practice - alot.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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madmole, have you been reading that website too? 
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jimmybog, reading is not and never will be a substitute for instruction, observation and application and there're many, many, MANY degrees of 'parallel turn'. Skiing is ALL about pressure (applied force/transfer of mass) through the ski(s) and in most cases this is a very gentle or subtle change of your mass and or position. These need to be demonstrated and you need to learn and practice how it 'feels' learning to read the feedback in your body. This is almost only achieved with practical instruction. It's been said that skiing is just walking and to an extent that analogy may be applied . . . but only if you know how to walk properly 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Thanks all. I understand that instruction is better than reading. Problem is that the instruction I have had from different countries seemed to be conflicting. The concept of leaning the upper body down the slope (whilst traversing) and bending the knees into the slope I managed to grasp (hope I explained that ok). It was the standing up and bending down process before/during/after the turn which has confused me. First time I was taught to stand up just before the turn and then whilst completing the turn bend down again. Next time I was taught the opposite which confused me. This was all taught on a pisted blue slope in both instances. In both instances I wasn't exactly sure what to do whilst I'm in the process of the turn when the skis start to face and then competely face downhill. Should I be in a standing, bending or a neutral position?
I'm not planning to teach myself the correct process but was just curious what the correct process should be?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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My two penneth:
Extend your legs at the start of the turn.
Flex your legs at the end of the turn.
Never traverse.
However, this is such a simplified description it has relatively little value.
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jimmybog, speed is part of the issue. In a simple blue slope parallel turn the rise and fall will be little more than relaxing down into your boots to move your center of mass toward the nose of the skis. If you imagine a turn as a 'bell curve' on a graph then the 'drop' usually begins about 1/3 of the way up the curve and the release up starts around 1/3 down the other side, these are gentle and easy movements. It becomes more obvious as your speed increases. A large part of the reason for doing it is to apply more downward (insertion) force into the edge of the ski and to ensure that neither the nose or tail slides up and out of the ski track. In the initial learning stage these movements are exaggerated to assist your learning process. What some people struggle with is the 'sink/drop' is ultimately a 3 axis movement, down, forward and at the hips, lateral.
Rick Schnellman (  fastman) has a good video site and he does know his business, That may give you more insight. http://www.yourskicoach.com/YourSkiCoach/About_Rick_Schnellmann.html
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You know it makes sense.
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rob@rar, where do you start and end a turn? [/poking with sharp object]
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Masque, having read your previous post I'm really not sure any longer.
[/poking back]
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Poster: A snowHead
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rob@rar, It could be argued that there is only one turn with existentialist vectors on your journey down the hill [/zen mode]
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Masque, I'm sure it could be.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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What is the sound of turning on one ski?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| oldmancoyote wrote: |
| What is the sound of turning on one ski? |
Wheeeeeeeeeeee. Thud.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Actually at Hemel today it was weeeee, thud, snap argh! As the skier on one ski doing 360's found out.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| oldmancoyote wrote: |
| What is the sound of turning on one ski? |
Wheeeeeeeeeeee. Thud. |
Dam! I thought you hadn't seen my teleboard . . . and more accurately it's "Wheeeeeeeeeeee. Thud. #@(K!!!
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jimmybog, this is not definitve and only applies for the level you are describing:
1.) you are heading at a gentle rate right to left down a gentle, snow encrusted incline. Your hands are in front of you and your arms are parallel at slightly less than 90 degrees. Your legs are bent and your weight is primarily on your downhill ski. You are leaning slightly up hill Your skis are parallel with your uphill ski slightly in front of your downhill ski.
2.) You pick a spot in the snow about 5 inchs to the right and 5 inchs from the tip of your downhill ski and leaning slightly forward you 'donk' your pole on the spot. AT THE SAME TIME you rise from your crouch and start to evenly transfer your weight from your downhill to your uphill ski maintaining pressure on the front of boots (don't sit) and at the same time start to gently pull back your up hill ski so that as you slowly start to turn both skis are parallel with the tips also parallel at the point you are facing down slope/down the fall line. At this point your weight should be evenly spread across both skis and the planted pole should be level with your bindings. Some people teach that you should 'compress' (i.e. crouch more) prior to the initiation of the turn. I think this what may have you confused. Whatever you get taught you should always be in the 'knees bent' postion across the slope. Whether you choose to bend your knees more prior to the turn is up to you - see what works. The compression choice slightly harder work on piste but pays dividends if you move on to off-piste/moguls. I think it helps carving also.
3.) You continue to hold the position keeping shifting weight to the left ski until you are starting to move left to right across the slope at which point you complete the weight transfer to your left (now downhill ski).
4.) At the same time you slightly advance your right ski in front of your left (now downhill ski) and move back down into a balanced crouch (i.e. 'bend ze knees') moving your hands back into the postion described above and leaning slightly uphill.
Congrats - you have parallel turned. If you are doing the weight shift and stance correctly you should automatically be rolling the edges of the ski from one side to the other (neutral at the midpoint of the turn) Initally you will need to concentrate slightly on keeping your skis together BUT don't force it. If you find that you are 'dragging' in the turn then almost certainly you are not transferring weight at the correct point and need to do it sooner. Practice standing and skiing slowly on one ski - if you can do this on both feet, it will really help. The ability to do stationary jump turns is also useful.
As said above this is not meant to substitute for an on slope instructor 
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jimmybog, this is not definitve and only applies for the level you are describing:
1.) you are heading at a gentle rate right to left down a gentle, snow encrusted incline. Your hands are in front of you and your arms are parallel at slightly less than 90 degrees. Your legs are bent and your weight is primarily on your downhill ski. You are leaning slightly up hill Your skis are parallel with your uphill ski slightly in front of your downhill ski.
2.) You pick a spot in the snow about 5 inchs to the right and 5 inchs from the tip of your downhill ski and leaning slightly forward you 'donk' your pole on the spot. AT THE SAME TIME you rise from your crouch and start to evenly transfer your weight from your downhill to your uphill ski maintaining pressure on the front of boots (don't sit) and at the same time start to gently pull back your up hill ski so that as you slowly start to turn both skis are parallel with the tips also parallel at the point you are facing down slope/down the fall line. At this point your weight should be evenly spread across both skis and the planted pole should be level with your bindings. Some people teach that you should 'compress' (i.e. crouch more) prior to the initiation of the turn. I think this what may have you confused. Whatever you get taught you should always be in the 'knees bent' postion across the slope. Whether you choose to bend your knees more prior to the turn is up to you - see what works. The compression choice slightly harder work on piste but pays dividends if you move on to off-piste/moguls. I think it helps carving also.
3.) You continue to hold the position keeping shifting weight to the left ski until you are starting to move left to right across the slope at which point you complete the weight transfer to your left (now downhill ski).
4.) At the same time you slightly advance your right ski in front of your left (now downhill ski) and move back down into a balanced crouch (i.e. 'bend ze knees') moving your hands back into the postion described above and leaning slightly uphill.
Congrats - you have parallel turned. If you are doing the weight shift and stance correctly you should automatically be rolling the edges of the ski from one side to the other (neutral at the midpoint of the turn) Initally you will need to concentrate slightly on keeping your skis together BUT don't force it. If you find that you are 'dragging' in the turn then almost certainly you are not transferring weight at the correct point and need to do it sooner. Practice standing and skiing slowly on one ski - if you can do this on both feet, it will really help. The ability to do stationary jump turns is also useful.
As said above this is not meant to substitute for an on slope instructor
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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RattytheSnowRat, I think he heard you the first time
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Masque, could be a series of linked parallel turns...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I'm certainly no expert on parallel turns, but another topic in this forum had a link to this eBook which I found enlightening in terms of explaining the different techniques
http://www.britishskischool.com/performance_breakthrough/ebook_promo.htm
I've briefly tried some of this out on a dry slope. I didn't fancy trying the carving techniques as it was quite narrow, but I did try to practice skidded turns, varying the combination of pressure and pivoting. Knowing what I was trying to achieve with the techniques certainly helped me get some smoother turns.
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