 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Appalling
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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davidof, Are they your photos? I'm wondering what happened next?
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Pillocks.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| davidof, Are they your photos? I'm wondering what happened next? |
My photos, no there was no avalanche, as there isn't 99.999% of the time. It just seems unreasonable to me to take your kids down a run closed due to avalanche risk.
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holidayloverxx, I suspect what happened next was they had a whale of a time, and got away with it.
This time.
And guaranteeing they will probably gamble next time.
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Richard_Sideways, davidof, ...there are some good articles this year on the 'psychology of the crowd' and how this has led people into being caught in avalanche. Not placed at risk ... actually caught. Yes, nothing seems to have happened on this occasion to these people. Their insurance would almost certainly have been void if something had happended - and helicopters in the Valais are around 90gbp per minute IIRC. But why take a risk - particularly when leading children, in which parents frequently assume the same responsibility for safety as would a professional guide, but without the accumulated wisdom and mountain-craft. I've had a 'feeling down my spine' a number of times climbing on the hill, and one incident above Arolla was a dramatic example of well-founded caution - minutes later, the whole slope went, after we had retreated to mixed ground. What the parents did here was inexcusable - partly because it was dumb, partly because they were taking decisions for others as well as themselves, and partly because it increases the propensity of both those in their charge and others around, to ignore carefully considered and well placed warnings.
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Shocking.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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davidof, did you tell him that, or just take pictures of him?
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Absolute idiots.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I asked if he knew that it was an avalanche path and that the slopes above purge after heavy snow. He said that resorts are always closing slopes and were over cautious and they probably wanted to save the snow for the slalom training.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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davidof, ...well done for intervening politely rather than standing by ... the fact that he tried to justify you is very surprising. It's one thing making a snap decision which is wrong, without really thinking about it. That's understandable - goodness knows I've done it. But it's quite another to deliberately invalidate your and your kids insurance (if they had some) by a conscious decision, and take other people into a high risk zone when it's not necessary. The whole point of mountaincraft is that you carefully accumulate knowledge - from experience, from others - and weigh up each individual situation, often minute by minute. This '....resorts are always closing slopes and were over cautious and they probably wanted to save the snow for the slalom training...' is exactly what I have seen get people into big trouble - it's a crass generalisation with a 'probably' in it, which is exactly the opposite of mountaincraft.
Other examples I have heard just before something bad has happened
'I've been on this slope loads of times...it'll be fine'
'no need to protect this section, we'll just take it carefully'
'I'm not waiting this out any longer, we've only got one day of the weekend left'
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davidof, IF they were 'caught' by the PGHM could they be prosecuted?
Should/can piste closures such as this case be legally enforced in France?
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You know it makes sense.
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They can only be prosecuted if:-
i. they cause an avalanche which injures someone or ends up on open runs below
ii. the mayor (who is responsible for security in his area) has taken out a bye-law restricting people from entering the zone but he mustn't exceed his "police" powers.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Darwinian selection?
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Poster: A snowHead
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complete idiots
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| davidof wrote: |
| I asked if he knew that it was an avalanche path and that the slopes above purge after heavy snow. He said that resorts are always closing slopes and were over cautious and they probably wanted to save the snow for the slalom training. |
he definitely sounds like an expert 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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what happens if someone with Carte Neige or Carré Neige insurance has an accident on a closed run, requiring lots of expensive intervention? Would they be covered?
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Crazy just shows how easy it is to get false confidence with no real imagination of the possible issues they could cause to others let alone themselves. Bad news is that the kids are being taught to do what ever they want, go where ever they like. Potty.
Not to mention if the picture is this season the kids should be in school 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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the guy in the first photo, is probably thinking why is this bloke taking photos of us................LOL
wonder if he reads snowheads.......
the sign saying Avalanches couldn t be more clearer.
Pam...i would susoect that insurance would be invalidated................if theres a hook insurance co's can grab to avoid a pay out they usually use it!!!!!!!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Jake43, On Sunday ?
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davidof, Don't you just despair at some people, let them muller themselves.....but their kids?
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Dumber than a really dumb thing!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Arno wrote: |
he definitely sounds like an expert |
Well he'd made a risk assessment.
I was just a bit surprised to see whole groups of people pushing their way over the netting given that the piste conditions and even safe(ish) off piste elsewhere was great. It is not like just ducking a rope.
It comes down to what another person said on this forum about maybe shutting lifts in these situations.
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Presumably the children share the same genes as the father, and he definitely has some defective ones. Had they been caught in an avalanche, then I suppose we could call it natural selection 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| stefoy4me wrote: |
| ...the sign saying Avalanches couldn t be more clearer..... |
I only have to hear there's an avalanche sign up and I'm racing to the beginner slopes - amazes me how people rely on taking a chance. Maybe I'm just a wuss, maybe not....
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Specialman wrote: |
| stefoy4me wrote: |
| ...the sign saying Avalanches couldn t be more clearer..... |
I only have to hear there's an avalanche sign up and I'm racing to the beginner slopes - amazes me how people rely on taking a chance. Maybe I'm just a wuss, maybe not.... |
Id rather be considered a wuss than a dead "expert"
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| Quote: |
| No avalanche beacon, no idea. Still he's wearing a helmet. |
Closed means closed, carrying beacon or not and the fact they are wearing Helmets is completely irrelevant. He is a irresponsible lady's front bottom, who desperately needs a wake up call. Glad to see that you stopped and said something. You must have been speechless when he tried to justify what he was doing.
How can you educate people like this?
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You know it makes sense.
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IDIOT
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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***CAUTION: MAY CONTAIN OPINION***
It appears that this new strain of moralising seems to have been getting a wee bit infectious recently. Probably understandable, its been a long wait for the new season and the 'A' word is written pretty big at the moment. Lets try to remember that one mans stupid and reckless is anothers bold and brave.
Personally i'd have been more alarmed if this guy had turned around and said "Oh, do you think? Well I suppose you're right Davidof, c'mon kids" His response showed he'd thought about the situation and made an assesment. Our assesment of HIS assesment is somewhat moot.
For right or wrong, this man pushed the boundaries in search of an experience for his family. Other than the life and limb aspect, how different/irresponsible is it to someone jacking in a stable job to start their own business, or pulling their kids from school, selling the house and sailing around the world? What about taking the family cycling? Thats can be a dangerous activity - personally i'm reluctant to take my kids on a main road with bikes, but that where I draw my boundary. Would I take them down a closed piste under Ave warning on a high risk day, no. Would I go out with them on an ave risk day, yes.
You want to call this guy an Idiot? Fine, others would call you the same for taking kids skiing at all, but we do, as its an experience we want to give them, and ourselves.
Where do I keep finding all these damn soapboxes and will SOMEONE PLEASE take them away so I can get back to bad puns and jokes about funny accents...
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Richard_Sideways wrote: |
| Other than the life and limb aspect... |
is that not the key aspect that you cannot put to one side in this scenario?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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even assuming he was some "expert" and decided he didnt need to take notice of the signs.. i believe it is giving a very bad message to the children.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The guy is a moron for doing this with or without kids.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
Lets try to remember that one mans stupid and reckless is anothers bold and brave
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In what way is it "bold and brave" to endanger others by going somewhere that is clearly marked as an avalanche risk? snow_badger, degrees of expertise is irrelevant. Other people are equally harmed by idiotic actions irrespective of the cause being "expert" or beginner.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Richard_Sideways, Of course he's an idiot for taking kids there. Want to take risks - take them on your own, risk your own life but not your children's. Putting your children in danger is just another form of child abuse. He didn't think about situation at all - he just made a comforting excuse for himself, that's it. Which makes him a double idiot. He would've fared much better if he turned around and said "Oh, do you think? Well I suppose you're right Davidof, c'mon kids" instead of pretending to be an expert in terrain closures. To call it 'assessment' is ridiculous. To assess the situation one needs to understand it and this guy clearly doesn't. "A' word is big at the moment because about 2 meters of snow fell in about 2 weeks and when you ski these days you always hear avalanches going off somewhere. Going on closed because of avalanche danger runs is reckless and stupid in every man's world.
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| Quote: |
Id rather be considered a wuss than a dead "expert"
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+ 1
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| never summer wrote: |
| Putting your children in danger is just another form of child abuse. |
Define 'in danger'.
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Richard_Sideways, quite apart from any other consideration, if you ski on a closed run, you ski uninsured. There was plenty of super terrain available without skiing closed runs which is always stupid, in my book. Skiing off piste is in a totally different category - sometimes stupid, sometimes not, and requiring judgement, experience, knowledge, maybe boldness and courage too. None of the above are necessary to ski a closed run. Just the straightforward "stupidity" will do.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| andyrew wrote: |
| Quote: |
Lets try to remember that one mans stupid and reckless is anothers bold and brave
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In what way is it "bold and brave" to endanger others by going somewhere that is clearly marked as an avalanche risk? snow_badger, degrees of expertise is irrelevant. Other people are equally harmed by idiotic actions irrespective of the cause being "expert" or beginner. |
oh of course, totally agree. But regardless of the signs you will always get those that think that although they may have had avalanche training etc etc etc that they are exempt from the closures.
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FAQ
