 Poster: A snowHead
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... being reported on Eurosport that the media in Europe have been saying Vonn and Maze are at loggerheads.
Then it showed live, Vonn approaching Maze on the leaders podium and saying to her that she hadn't said any of the words reported in the media. Then Maze gave her a stern look and reluctant hand shake.
Any truth in it, or made up by the media, or very good PR by Vonn and Maze to keep the media focussed on them?
It wouldn't suprise me if it was the latter.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Matt Chilton confined to the men’s so we will not have his obsequious insight into the details and endless repetition of her name. (It may have been that Vonn said she looked more like a man than Maze)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
They said that the great Herminator was all for Vonn to take on the men. Suprised me that...
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He's on the payroll
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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spud, what I've read is that Vonn said "Fuck you Maze" quite loudly as she crossed the line. Several witnesses apparently and the Austrian commentators also reported hearing it. But as I was unable to watch the race so I have no personal knowledge.
I am split over the use of the word to be honest - over here it is used a lot because young people hear it all the time, so it has no taboo word status. They use the word like we do bloody or Scheiße. But for a native English speaker to use it audibly is totally out of order because they know exactly what they are saying and it is therefore meant offensively.
Yet another storm in a teacup to be honest - I much prefer the men's circuit where there appears to be way less bitchiness. The Germans have a nice word for it "Zickenkrieg" and a person who indulges (usually a female) is called a Zicke. It translates as a bitch but it is a few degrees worse in terms of an insult!
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Do the male racers really not think, and occasionally let slip, a "fu<k you!" to their main rival in the heat of the competition? Amazing.
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miranda, I agree with you. From what I read it was said to herself in the heat of the moment.
I like Vonn. She was amazing with the crowd at LL, provides interviews for canadian press etc. Sure she's competitive and wants to win. I'm not surprised , all these atheletes do; they dedicate their lives to it. I think there is an element of take the sucessful skier down and bash the american about some of all this
Son's ski coach told us a story how one teenage racer fan getting her signature asked her on a date and apparently she said yes and went to his prom!
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| gryphea wrote: |
| Son's ski coach told us a story how one teenage racer fan getting her signature asked her on a date and apparently she said yes and went to his prom! |
She's good with PR, and that's all what it was about 
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primoz,
Of course she's good with PR; but why slag her off for it? What's wrong with being good at PR? She puts hours into it, which is more than some do. She doesn't really have to do that, she's a huge brand regardless. I just don't get why some hate her for it.......
Me, I'd rather dislike the racers who push past all the young racers and refuse to sign anything rather than the ones who spend ages giving them inspiration.
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| gryphea wrote: |
| I just don't get why some hate her for it....... |
She's extremely successful, attractive and confident and therefore needs to be taken down a peg or two.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Ted the shred let out a great big audible "f*ck" after he umm...f*cked up his second run today!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| gryphea wrote: |
| I just don't get why some hate her for it....... |
I doubt people hate her because of her PR. I think main problem is, that she's pretty bad loser. As far as media goes, she's really great to work with. I already admitted that, and I can repeat this as many times someone wish to. Because it's true. Only one even better to work with, is Tanja Poutiainen, everyone else are nowhere near when it comes to this.
But thing why most of people, who don't like her (hate is a bit strong word I would say), don't like her is, that she really isn't really good loser. When things don't go her way, she's pretty capable of tearing connections with people, who stood by her side and did everything for her for years... like it would be her fault. I'm not saying top athletes are best friends between themself, but she has very very little friends, if any at all on tour, and this tells something. And believe me, it's not that everyone would be just jealous at her
She's good and all that, hell, she's the best, by far, but let's face it, whole world doesn't spin just around her, and it's not everyone elses fault, if she doesn't win or if she doesn't get what she wants.
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| gatecrasher wrote: |
| Ted the shred let out a great big audible "f*ck" after he umm...f*cked up his second run today! |
 Yeah, I heard that too. Although it would be typical of Shred to just shout the expletive for all to hear, because of all the fuss being made over Vonn and Maze.
Found a bit more on tinternet... cut and pasted....
Lindsey Vonn's rivalry with World Cup leader Tina Maze heated up and threatened to boil over on Saturday, when the Slovenian's coaches accused the American defending champion of hurling an insulting expletive after winning a super-G.
Vonn edged Maze to extend her perfect record in four speed races this season, then was shocked to find herself in a fight she hadn't intended and didn't want.
In venting her emotions on crossing the line, and realizing she had taken the lead from main challenger Maze, Vonn acknowledged she used a curse word as an expression of relief.
Still, the Slovenian team — which targeted a three-race weekend sweep for Maze after her win in Friday's super-combined — surprised most observers by alleging that Vonn deliberately aimed an insult, and filed an official protest for "unsportsmanlike behaviour."
"They think I said something very bad about her when I came to the finish and that is absolutely not true," a clearly stunned Vonn said minutes after being told of the allegation. "It definitely hurts. I would never say anything bad about another athlete at the finish."
Vonn accepted that she had sworn — "and I shouldn't have done that" — but insisted it was a reaction to skiing poorly and failing to finish on Friday, knowing she is still short of full fitness after a recent illness.
"I'm struggling with my strength," the four-time World Cup champion said, insisting she was at her limits on Saturday. "I came down [the slope] with everything I have."
Marie-Michele Gagnon of Lac-Etchemin, Que., finished tied for 13th.
Vonn's version was soon backed by World Cup women's race director Atle Skaardal, who joined United States and Slovenia team coaches to study television footage of her post-race reactions.
"We could not find any abuse whatsoever and the protest was, of course, rejected," Skaardal said later at a scheduled meeting of national team coaches.
Skaardal criticized the Slovenia team's actions in originally demanding to see broadcasters' film, though without naming Andrea Massi, Maze's trainer and boyfriend.
"We had officials going into the television buses which is, of course, a very critical behaviour and in no way acceptable," Skaardal said at the meeting, which Massi did not attend. "I ask you to behave in a proper manner."
Massi declined to discuss details of the afternoon's drama with The Associated Press.
"I made the protest, I don't have any other comment," Massi said after the traditional evening prize-giving ceremony in the town centre, where Vonn and Maze hugged on the podium with no trace of tension.
"This is sport," Massi said, suggesting bitterness would not linger between the teams. "It [the problem] is finished after today."
Issue dealt with
U.S women's head coach Alex Hoedlmoser said the issue was dealt with.
"From our side there was never a problem," Hoedlmoser told The AP. "I told him I didn't think she would honestly ever do anything like that. If something like that did happen I wouldn't tolerate it, because that is not how we behave."
Vonn won in 1 minute, 2.71 seconds, 0.37 seconds faster than Maze and 1.01 ahead of Julia Mancuso of the U.S. in third.
Vonn's 57th career World Cup win, the second most in history, was her 20th in super-G. She is the four-time defending champion in the discipline title.
Vonn and Maze have combined to win seven of the nine World Cup events.
The off-piste drama perhaps revealed how Maze's camp believes she can finally win an overall title at age 29.
Vonn certainly respects her new rival's ability to challenge for the giant crystal globe.
"Tina has had an amazing season so far. It's going to be a tough season," said Vonn, speaking to reporters only after first seeking Maze in the finish area to explain what happened.
Vonn said she told Maze: "I hope you trust me enough to believe me."
Before the dispute was made public, Maze said the champion was "tough, but not impossible" to beat.
"I wanted to win but Lindsey was better. It was fun to ski today," she said.
Maze has a 163-point lead overall from 2011 champion Maria Hoefl-Riesch of Germany, who placed fifth on Saturday. Vonn was third overall.
Maze will be favoured to add to her advantage on Sunday in a giant slalom. She has won both GS races this season and it has traditionally been a weaker event for Vonn.
Mancuso followed up a second place in super-G last weekend, and ensured Vonn has been joined on the podium by a teammate in all four victories.
"I want to keep Lindsey on her toes in super-G," said Mancuso, who is fifth in the overall standings. "You have to have a perfect run to win. Right now, Lindsey and Tina are in a different league."
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You know it makes sense.
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| primoz wrote: |
| she has very very little friends, if any at all on tour, and this tells something. |
Yes, that this helps her stay ahead of her rivals in a professional individual sport.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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primoz,
Fair enough. You clearly have some personal experience to draw upon.
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Poster: A snowHead
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A clue perhaps we might ask Mr Vonn why he didn't like her?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hmm.... seems like the observers of the women's tour are being the "Zickes" here. Rather than focusing on why someone's marriage ended, who said what about whom, who didn't go to whose wedding, how many friends someone has on the tour etc. etc., perhaps the focus could be on the actual sport? 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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It happens in women's tennis, women's golf, women's almost-any-sport-you-care-to-name - I'm really struggling to find the common denominator here.
Re the Maze/Vonn situation, my understanding is that Vonn said to Maze "does my bum look big in this?" and the answer didn't go down very well. So, that's that little puzzle tidied up.
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| miranda wrote: |
| Hmm.... seems like the observers of the women's tour are being the "Zickes" here. Rather than focusing on why someone's marriage ended, who said what about whom, who didn't go to whose wedding, how many friends someone has on the tour etc. etc., perhaps the focus could be on the actual sport? |
Unfortunately I have to disagree here...in principle I can see your point, but this is all part and parcel of the sport. How a sportspersons mental persona is, dictates in many ways how they perform. Mind games goes on in many sports, especially between those at the top.
That's why i originally asked whether there was anything to this story or a PR stunt.
And yes...it does make a difference if someone has friends or is going through a divorce.
Obviously with Vonn, she is like a lot of Top sports people... mentally strong. Having been ill and recently split up with her partner, she has still performed well.
I don't know whether she has friends on tour, she has her sister with her this year for company...so that may well say something.
Some sports people need to stay focussed and find they perform better if they don't become close to their competitors...others feel the need to socialise to perform better.
Psyching (sp) your opponant out or rattling their cage so to speak is another way to find that extra edge.
Perhaps that is the case here...who knows... but a sportspersons mental well being and how they are feeling has a great effect on performance...so i think it is relevant.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| It happens in women's tennis, women's golf, women's almost-any-sport-you-care-to-name - I'm really struggling to find the common denominator here. |
Well exactly. I don't believe for one second the male athletes are all best mates and don't get hacked off with each other, don't slate each other behind their backs and don't have rocky personal lives at times, but the media love to create a "cat fight" amongst female athletes and talk about the "vulnerability" behind the athletic exterior, the "fragile star" or portray them as "bitchy" if they don't go out for dinner with "the girls" etc. etc.
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miranda, it is the nature of women's sport. The media love it because it gives them something else to write about besides the results - a sort of human interest BS side of things.
I've coached both men and women's teams to quite a high level in two different sports and I'll openly say I'll take coaching the men's teams any day. You can say exactly what they have done wrong and what they need to do to put it right. With the women's teams it is like walking on eggshells all the time. And the internal team friendship politics is also a nightmare as well and this was just amateur sport. I imagine in professional sports it is multiplied by a magnitude of a thousand at least as in the end it is all about money and sponsorship.
There are a lot of people chasing a share of the winnings and the key is getting sponsorship to pay for the chance to get a look in at the prize money. If you can somehow shine a bad light on a competitor then you may have a better chance of getting more sponsorship. There is also a lot of petty jealousy that gets exaggerated when you are always competing against the same people in a very intense race environment. Friends are very important when you are part of a travelling circus like this or the professional tennis or golf tournaments. Just look at how well Chemmy and Julia Mancuso manage to successfully mix friendship and rivalry. The bitchiness is all part of the territory and if you can't hack it, then don't try to compete. Maria Riesch on the other hand has developed an icy shell, it is her way of protecting herself, you don't have to like it, but it seems to work for her.
We support various people on the ski racing circuits because they are phenomenal skiers and we admire their skills, knowing that if we could emulate even a hundredth part of it it will help us to improve. Ascribing terms like "love" "hate" is pointless as it is their sporting prowess that we are interested in not their possible position as a new best friend! That kind of stuff belongs to the primary school playground, not in the adult world.
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Samerberg Sue,
You should try being married to one... I'll gt my coat 
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Well it's a good job male athletes show the ladies how it's done and don't get involved in all that sort of internal team politics, showing competitors/ team mates in a bad light in a fight for top spot/sponsorship, struggling at times to mix friendship and rivalry, making comments that might be interpreted as "backhanded compliments" and so on... imagine what, say, the men's professional cycling tours would be like if they got involved in those types of shenanigans...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Who cares they are both incredible athletes and what goes on off the hill is of no interest to me unless it involves illegal substances, or members of the ladies tour in a hot tub indulging my sick perverted fantasies.
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She can come to my prom anytime...well my office xmas party anyway
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I'm with miranda, on this one.
Its not bitchyness to say something under her breath as she crossed the line and lets be clear it was a guy who complained.
Can't quite beleive some of the comments on here!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| primoz wrote: |
| gryphea wrote: |
| and lets be clear it was a guy who complained. |
his memory goes much further then month ago, when you try to scre**w him/them, so in my mind it's some sort of payback
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Oooh, miaow, he needs to put his claws away... sounds like a spiteful Zicke to go running and telling tales like that... hell hath no fury...
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
As far as Samerberg Sue comment goes... I was never coach, just serviceman but I totally agree. Working with men team is a whole lot easier then with women team. With men you are serviceman (or coach), with women team you are in first line psychologist/dad/mom and everything what should really matter (skis in my case) comes second.
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Maybe the issue is there aren't enough female coaches and techs
I find the opposite at my work. The women pull together as a team, the men run around trying to score points off everyone to try and make themselves look better
It also seems to me the two people involved in this had or have boyfriend/husband/ coach/manager type positions. Maybe they just got/ had bad advice . Maybe Vonn's ex advised her to stay distant from the other women on the circuit; that way he builds power etc.
A friend sat on a chair with a canadian physio t men's team the other day and she said it was pretty much in her contract she couldn't date the racers
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Would he have complained if he was on a male athlete's team? Was it his personal "don't screw with me" revenge as has been suggested here? Who really knows? What we do know is that it gets reported as a bitchy spat between the female athletes and the female athletes are portrayed as being "sensitive" and needing to be looked after by a coach who simply has to act as her dad/counseller/knight in shining armour and rush to her defence...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Maybe the issue is that there aren't enough female sports reporters. As Samerberg Sue said,
| Quote: |
it is the nature of women's sport. The media love it because it gives them something else to write about besides the results - a sort of human interest BS side of things.
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"the media" being for the most part male, and having - shall one say - a testosterone-flavoured view of how they should report women's sport.
(So a "hot chick" will get more coverage than say a differently endowed competitor (but hot skier) like, say Carole Montillet).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Acacia wrote: |
| (So a "hot chick" will get more coverage than say a differently endowed competitor (but hot skier) like, say Carole Montillet). |
Carole Montillet always got a fair bit of coverage on French TV. She still does, she is a very good commentator.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| primoz wrote: |
but she has very very little friends, if any at all on tour, |
That's actually not true. She generally gets on with skiers and has many friends on tour, Chemmy among them. She's very social in fact. She was close to Anja too before she retired. I think when she was married she didn't hang out with them as much (apart from Maria). She's by far also one of the friendliest toward fans, young and old. I've had several encounters (four) and she's the same patient, talkative, and warm person we first met back in 2005. My opinion is based on that rather than how well she handles the media.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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With Lindsey ( although i don't know her) it seems to me that her 'handling of the media ( and fans) is just her talkative friendly smiley ordinary self - she can be extremely honest. Sure, put skis on her or challenge her to snakes and ladders and you'll be in a battle you wished you weren't! When you've won what she has ( overall title 4 times now) , a usually happy, smiley attractive face talking english with ease is just what the TV marketing executives want to sell the product - it's called 'ratings'. Lets name another 'star' - Lara Gut. It was well documented that Swiss ski officials wanted her skis to do the talking and not her! But again, very attractive, speaking 3 languages, and had a view on a few matters...and would you believe it, up pops a microphone and TV camera and ratings soar somewhere.
In the racing situation, it must be ultra competitive for both boys and girls. Year upon year upon year of getting up the mountain by 8 am doing drill upon drill etc would kill me off through sheer boredom. Seeing the
same faces every couple of days for 5 ~ 6 months straight, each one wanting your scalp or you wanting theirs must surely be a little disabling. Which is probably why, when asked they say, all i want is to perfectly ski the run.
I have come to this thread a little late - apologies if i've missed the point a little.
On British Eurosport, i saw Vonn win and say the expletive. Surprised at the Maze camp reaction.
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FAQ
