 Poster: A snowHead
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Ok, nearly made the decision to drive to the Alps at Easter. Would love to do it, and if it all works out good, might set up the Easter hols for years to come now the wee one is in school.
However, I keep worrying about the last stretch into resorts. I hate them even with transfers, where those driving have lots more experience of it than us. I'm not great with heights, which obviously doesn't help. OH who will be driving, is ok with the transfers, but I do guess he will be a bit nervous with the drive not being used to it (not that he'd ever admit that!!), I'm a bad enough passenger at the best of times, so I'm starting to get really worried it will be awful, especially if heavy snow (I know we have to have winter tyres / snow chains). I'm guessing at Easter there will be a better chance of clear roads than at other times, but then again, you want heavy snow for the skiing! Even without snow, I still hate them!
Anyone else hate them, but found driving not as bad as they thought? I have even contemplated Pila, and me and the wee one getting off at the bottom and getting the gondola up!!  , but that's ridiculous, isn't it??
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Gilly28, I'm that bad with heights that when the 'tacking cam' goes over the top of the tower block and I'm watching a move sitting on my sofa, I have to look away. After many years practice I'm ok now on ski lifts, but I've found some resort routes definitely 'squeaky bum time' but it does depend on resort - I've found driving up to La Rosiere in the summer, makes me fell a bit funny, but I did a season in Vallandry (les arcs) and by the end of it I was driving somewhat like a local, i.e. overtaking both up and down the hill!
Places like morzine, merible, Le Praz are all super easy compared to somewhere like val thorens...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Gilly28, ...although having a reputation for oblique humour (see helmet argument) I am going to be very serious here.
even at easter we use winter tyres, although have only used them in anger once or twice at easter.
the important thing about doing lots of driving at altitude on the tight bends is the idea of 'work rate'. I research this kind of thing.
don't try to do everything at once - ie brake, steer and change gear as you are going round the corner - get the braking and gear changing before you steer around the corner.
Keep the 'work rate' in the corner minimal.
As you approach the corner, slow down to a sensible speed for the hairpin by braking and changing down a gear but doing all this while going straight - (note using foot braking more than gear braking in snow). Having got all the braking and gear changing done in a straight line - which is easy - now all you need to do is steer around the corner - and accelerate around the last half if you are going up hill.
Simple. My partner just can't do it...she tries to change gear, brake and steer all at the same time - and sometimes ends up stalling on the hairpin, or not getting the speed right - too fast on icy bits - since her brain is overloaded with things to do and she hasn't got enough arms and legs to do it all at the same time.
It's amazingly simple to get it right, and it's the secret to driving safely in the hairpins. But many people just don't get it, and terrify me when I am a passenger with them.
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bertie bassett, Yip I'm the same watching things on tv with heights in them, makes me feel "yuck and yes was like you on ski lifts (some I still hate), and I can't really go on any alone. My first holiday in Serre Chevalier, I was shaking like a wreck by the time I reached my lesson as I had to travel the 15 mins on the gondola.
What's the drive like to Avoriaz? I'm thinking that may be an option for Easter as it's high, although we won't be deciding on the resort till nearer the time. Do the Austrian resorts have the same ascents?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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valais2, Thanks for the advice, I don't know if you've made me even more nervous though!! Wish we could practice before hitting it!! LOL
Yes we will be getting winter tyres, and will get chains, someone mentioned Lidl were selling them...
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Gilly28, 'The Alps' is a broad concept - if you choose La Rosiere for example, then you'll be faced with the last 15km of your journey being an uphill hairpin-bend torture trail. If on the other hand you chose to drive to Austria, then the majority of your journey would be on excellent German autobahns, and as the resorts tend to be located along valley floors with no nasty ascents to negotiate, the last 10km will be a doddle as well.
[Stands back and waits for usual rubbish about Austrian resorts all being green fields at Easter ...]
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They are worse to think about than to do. Where I learned to ski was in tiny, tiny ski resort and the last 8-10Km were not only winding hairpin bends type roads, but most of it was single track too!! I actually drove up and down on several occasions and although it needs thinking about it isn't actually too bad. You might get a smell of burning clutch if you make a hash of it in parts, but for most of the journey I managed fine. If I can do that I'm sure you will manage the drive up to a major resort. Just take it steady.
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If it really bothers you, go to Austria where many of the resorts are on the valley floor. But in my book windy mountain roads = much fun to be had!
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I was apprehensive the first time I drove - had never driven in Europe before - and although I ended up nearly crashing into a tram in the middle of Grenoble (we got lost), and I took the wing mirror of a van, I got used to it quickly. It was only by virtue of the fact i was in a 1.1-litre Clio with two whinging women and a boot full of food that we struggled to get up anything resembling a hill. I shifted the food (unfortunately, not the women though) into a VW Touran that we'd also hired and the car was fine for the last stretch up from Aime.
To be fair, it wasn't the heights I was worried about, it was the coach drivers who manage to navigate the downhill journey at breakneck speeds, all while chugging on a Gauloises;) Don't know if the car had winter tyres fitted and we didn't have chains fitted but we got around fine, despite it being mid-January and utterly freezing.
You'll be fine 
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Gilly28, As others have said, once you get there it won't be nearly as bad as you think. If you want to practice the things that valais2 has suggested (which makes a lot of sense), you can do it on any old winding road before you go. It's getting in the habit of doing all the stuff before you start the turn which is the bit you may want to practice and you can do that anywhere.... even an empty supermarket car park. But whilst practicing is a jolly good idea (I didn't before my first trip and it was to Val T), it won't be the end of the world if you don't. It's really not as hard in reality as it is in your head... promise! Another vote for Austria and it's normal roads into resort, if the worry of this is going to spoil your anticipation of your holiday, then go there and that really is dead easy, easier even than UK roads to your average town centre... by a LOT! Enjoy! 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I have some sympathy, and admire your honesty, as Valaise2 has said - get yourself set up before making the turn. I would also suggest a point that most bike riders are all too aware of; don't look where you don't want to go - focus on the road and do not look over the edge at the drop. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
I'm starting to get really worried it will be awful
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if you start to get worried now you have 4 months to work yourself into a complete state of anxiety which will do your family and your arteries no good at all. Your OH will be driving, and I'm sure he's a sensible driver and won't want to scare you. With the right equipment, and right frame of mind, he'll have no problem - unless you are squeaking and moaning and making him a nervous wreck!!
There are many resorts which don't involve driving up horrendous hairpin bends. Tignes is one of the highest in Europe - and IIRC there are very few tight bends going up there!
Do some research, choose a resort which is not too difficult to drive to (plenty of advice available here) and then stop worrying about it. If you really can't stop worrying about it then you have three options
- keep worrying, die a thousand deaths before you get anywhere near the mountains
- decide not to drive
- book a driving holiday then get some counselling/cognitive behavioural therapy to help you overcome this phobia. My daughter in law has a bad phobia about flying but some CBT helped by giving her some coping mechanisms. She doesn't like flying, at all, but she can now do it.
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I've probably said before but the textbook answer to 'what's an easy drive up to a French resort?' - Morzine - remains the most terrified I've ever been behind the wheel of a car. Val Thorens I've been up loads of times since and never batted an eyelid. It's all about the weather. Most of the time most roads up will be in decent nick, and therefore what's a few bends eh? However, even a relatively straight road, with relatively gentle gradient, in a blizzard - trouser filling stuff.
I think it's a reasonable generalization as well to say that 'big name' resorts keep their roads in decent nick, and will send a dozen ploughs down them the minute a snowstorm stops. Little out-of-the-way places sometimes are a bit slack about it.
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You know it makes sense.
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I don't remember the road up to Avoriaz (it was 1990 and I was on a transfer bus) but I do know that I have found nothing scary about driving up to both Tignes and Val Thorens at Easter. THe hairpins on the way to Val T are lower down, and there really aren't any on the way to Tignes. All good advice about how to drive up, winter tyres will make the car much more sure-footed if there is snow, you have to have some chains with you (and know how to for them) just in case.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Val Thorens easy peasy but got a little bit quesy Driven there 6 times in the spring not caught any snow on the roads
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Poster: A snowHead
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My sister-in-law would really love to visit our apartment, but the thought of the mountain roads freaks her out completely.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Mr Piehole, Morzine? my recollection was that it was a doddle to drive to, some years ago but in my mind it was easy. Les Carroz / Flaine i have driven loads of times and it is hairy. Saalbach really easy, main roads all the way and then a straight gentle incline up to the village, mountains on each side so nowhere to drop off! Have a look on google earth for easy routes where you can check the gradients as well of the incline.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| ianbradders wrote: |
| Mr Piehole, Morzine? my recollection was that it was a doddle to drive to, some years ago but in my mind it was easy. Les Carroz / Flaine i have driven loads of times and it is hairy. Saalbach really easy, main roads all the way and then a straight gentle incline up to the village, mountains on each side so nowhere to drop off! Have a look on google earth for easy routes where you can check the gradients as well of the incline. |
My point about Morzine was that everyone says it's a doddle, and it well might be, but I was in 2 metre visibility, snow coming down like I've never seen it, rental car with improper equipment and - worst of all - an automatic gearbox which kept insisting on changing down to 1st as I was going very very slowly. In a manual you'd keep in a high gear of course, but this little shitey auto Citroen C1 thought the best thing to do (every 20 yards or so) was to change down and deliver an almighty blast of torque which span the wheels nearly every time. No amount of fiddling with the manual flappy paddle thing would convince it otherwise (both me and my passenger tried to find a control that would prevent this happening, to no avail) Miserable, terrifying, awful experience. I arrived in tears. Actual crying.
Never ever ever drive an automatic on snow, that would be my advice.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Gilly28, Close your eyes and use the Force 
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Mr Piehole, ...understand absolutely...new autos horrible...my old VAG Scirrocco (which I had from 91-93) was auto, but you could change like a manual if you wanted to. Excellent. But avoid autos in the snow now. They're psychotic - with a mind of their own. Last time I hired from GVA was given an auto in the winter - and said very nicely, no thanks. They said, rather snottily, 'that's all we've got...' - I looked in the box behind and there was loads of bundled papers and keys - so I smiled warmly and said very patiently that I would be driving right up to 1800m and there would be heavy snow according to the meteo ... and said I knew the roads and that they would be almost impossible in an auto - all true. He looked intently at me, smiled and said 'no problem..." and I got the same model in a diesel manual....and indeed it snowed and snowed and snowed...
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Mr Piehole, that does change the perspective somewhat, i would imagine. How do you mean about inappropriate equipment? Was that no chains or summer tyres?
Never had to suffer an auto in the snow but never given it any thought when picking up the hire car. Will certainly bear it in mind in the future.
Hope your passenger bought the first well deserved beer!
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| bertie bassett wrote: |
| Gilly28, all super easy compared to somewhere like val thorens... |
Val Thorens isn't tricky, I went down from there to Moutier in the summer and recorded 89kph. Mind you it was on my bike. Was much more careful going back up as I only averaged 8kph.
Seriously though, the roads to the major resorts are usually only really snowy whilst snowing or for a few hours afterwards. Even then winter tyres transform the traction and feel of the car. If you put snow chains on or snow socks then you will be fine going through anything as long as it isn't very deep.
Just go slowly and smoothly, avoiding sudden braking and acceleration.
I have had more problems when it dumps on the motorways at night going down to the Alps.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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For years my husband did the trip to resorts with a large twin axle caravan behind us, some years with an auto, Morzine, Pralognan La Vanoise, half way up to La Rosiere once when an engine problem with the car saw us retreat to Bourg, Grand Bornand I could go on. We always carry chains and have sometimes had to use them, in blizzard conditions but have never had winter tyres. All things are possible with the right technique and experience.
But, you are going on holiday and if you are not confident and not going to be relaxed about the journey then don`t go for something too challenging to start with. You do after all want to enjoy yourselves. Go to somewhere like Samoens or Bourg St Maurice, as you suggest at Easter time. If the weather is good drive up to some of the resorts for a days skiing and see how you get on. Take it one small step at a time.
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| Quote: |
I have had more problems when it dumps on the motorways at night going down to the Alps.
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Good point. I have had to stop completely because of fog, once, at Reims. Also had to stop for the night at 6 pm instead of the planned 11 pm, because of heavy snow near Bourg en Bresse. And once spent a couple of hours of heavy snow in a motorway service station, not liking all the HGVs in those conditions. They ordered them all off the motorway after a bit, so we set off again! I've also driven in convoys behind snowploughs - a slow but safe way of getting along the motorway.
Mostly, though, the drive has been clear and easy; so much easier than driving on UK motorways. The sooner they make ours tolls and keep off the riff-raff, the better.
Roads are like pistes. Can be a doddle one day, and on another day so difficult you just have to give up. Mostly it's fine, and given that you can't control the weather, pointless doing anything other than being prepared, and hoping for the best.
If you keep focussing on all the awful things that can happen you'd never go anywhere.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Mr Piehole,
| Quote: |
Never ever ever drive an automatic on snow, that would be my advice.
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I have the choice of leaving it in auto or switching to manual i use to do the hairpin steeps in manual but now just let car get on with it.
It's more about the driver than the mechanicals....
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Mr Piehole wrote: |
| I've probably said before but the textbook answer to 'what's an easy drive up to a French resort?' - Morzine - remains the most terrified I've ever been behind the wheel of a car. |
The worse thing I found about doing that road were the locals who overtook a line of cars on the wrong side of the road and then pushed back into the line of traffic almost causing a crash each time. I wasn't terrified I was fuming when one of them almost hit my front wing, and if I hadn't of been driving a big slow 4x4 hyundai santa fe (hire car that somebody else selected) I'd have caught the stupid ignorant Frenchie.
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local drivers can be pretty reckless, that's for sure. It's always local cars, not the much-maligned tourists, who go off the road into the trees on a particularly difficult downhill bend with a nasty camber, near our apartment. Fortunately the snow and trees breaks the fall and the local garage, 200 metres away, makes a nice living pulling them out. The scariest Alpine driver I ever encountered was at the wheel of an Austrian Postbus. Brilliant driver, in a technical sense, or he'd have been dead long ago. Terrifying - and that was in the summer! Franzl, his name was. Lovely guy.
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You know it makes sense.
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Just go flat out, maximum attack.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I have a car with 4WD and winter tyres and never have much trouble going uphill (except when my own stupidity gets the wheels into soft snow at the side of the road). I find coming downhill much dicier and that needs a good deal of care.
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Poster: A snowHead
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As a few other people have mentioned, the roads up to resort differ for each resort and some are a much easier drive than others.
If it is making you nervous the pick one with an easy, non scary drive - that way you'll be relaxed, as will everyone else and you'll all have a good time.
I only know the Tarenaise area well but from round here I would suggest Brides Les Bain in the 3 valley and Bourg St Maurice in the Paradiski area. Both are at valley floor level and have efficient lift access up to the slopes meaning that you have very little mountain driving to contend with at all.
Hope it helps . .
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| valais2 wrote: |
Gilly28, ...although having a reputation for oblique humour (see helmet argument) I am going to be very serious here.
even at easter we use winter tyres, although have only used them in anger once or twice at easter.
the important thing about doing lots of driving at altitude on the tight bends is the idea of 'work rate'. I research this kind of thing.
don't try to do everything at once - ie brake, steer and change gear as you are going round the corner - get the braking and gear changing before you steer around the corner.
Keep the 'work rate' in the corner minimal.
As you approach the corner, slow down to a sensible speed for the hairpin by braking and changing down a gear but doing all this while going straight - (note using foot braking more than gear braking in snow). Having got all the braking and gear changing done in a straight line - which is easy - now all you need to do is steer around the corner - and accelerate around the last half if you are going up hill.
Simple. My partner just can't do it...she tries to change gear, brake and steer all at the same time - and sometimes ends up stalling on the hairpin, or not getting the speed right - too fast on icy bits - since her brain is overloaded with things to do and she hasn't got enough arms and legs to do it all at the same time.
It's amazingly simple to get it right, and it's the secret to driving safely in the hairpins. But many people just don't get it, and terrify me when I am a passenger with them. |
This. And this is how you should drive all the time. If you want to find out more for general driving check out Roadcraft
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roadcraft and http://www.amazon.co.uk/Roadcraft-drivers-handbook-Essential-Handbook/dp/0117021687?tag=amz07b-21
might be the best £10.23 you ever spend.
I also find that double de-clutching is a useful technique on steep roads (no longer taught in police driver training btw) but if someone is having trouble with the basics as described by valais2 probably best to leave that alone.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Spyderman wrote: |
| Gilly28, Close your eyes and use the Force |
LOL!!! I think this will be the best method for me!!
To clarify, I won't be driving, it'll be the OH and he's pretty confident in a car, having driven various sorts of vehicles, and also knows cars pretty well. We also drive in snow and even I don't feel too bad driving in it, I drive to the Scottish ski resorts, drive in it when it snows at home no problem, it's just my anxiety on these roads with drops at the side, I don't see a bump or a slide, I see us going over the barrier all the way down! It's the heights thing! Even in the summer I wouldn't like it too much.
I think maybe the best thing for me might to have a wee hipflask ready to take before the ascent to calm my nerves!!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Gilly28, do it in the dark, you can't see the drops. Look at the road, just like with skiing look at the gap not at the tree.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| AlpineAddict wrote: |
I hope your trip is a great one buddy... You'll be fine |
Ah thanks!
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Gilly28, If going to Avoriaz, park the car at the free car park at the bottom of the Prodains lift. If it will still be there with all the building of the new Gondola being built! The drive up to Avoriaz is also very easy but expensisve to park there. However there is one that is a bit of a walk which I believe is not as expensive! Enjoy.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Gilly28, you'll be fine, take it at your own pace and won't be a problem.
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" have even contemplated Pila, and me and the wee one getting off at the bottom and getting the gondola up!! , but that's ridiculous, isn't it?? "
If you don't like heights then you may want to avoid that gondola as it goes up a long long way. Think it takes about 15 to 20 minutes from the valley floor up to resort.
One of the easiest resorts to access without climbing any steep roads is Mayrhofen. Once you turn off the Inn valley and head down to Mayrhofen you won't even notice that the road is gradually climbing.
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FAQ
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