 Poster: A snowHead
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Its awesome having the best snowcover in the uk only half an hours drive away, the runs are well pisted, the lifts are running a lot more smoothly lately and the atmosphere is friendly. However i have a few niggles:
1. "experts only" signs at the top of the gunbarrel - an intermediate can ski it if is not crazily crowded and there lies the problem. I would rather the sign read "narrow piste, caution required", all too often there's skiiers bombing down to your right and left. It would be much appreciated if skiiers (especially ones with enough knowledge and skill to do so) were encouraged to wait safely at the top until sufficient space downhill develops and then ski with appropriate speed. Its usually so crowded I head off piste to skiiers left of the tbar, shame 'cause its a nice wee run.
2. Westwall and ciste gully closed due to avalanche risk - invest in a little bit of avalanche control and lets get 2 of the best runs in Scotland open a bit more often
3. Westwall and ciste chairlifts not in operation - Not only would these allow shorter queue times on other lifts and less crowding on piste (probably more people would ski westwall and gully runs if the nasty climb to the westwall poma wasn't necessary after completing the run) but if downloading was incorporated then they would provide an alternative evacuation route (to the funicular), in cases of sudden severe weather when there's lack of snow cover down to the car parks. A long term plan for replacement or refurbishment would be really welcomed.
4. runs closed due to marginal conditions - last year one day the M1 was closed due to rocks, the cover looked fine and I ducked the rope and skiied it, it was narrow but passible in one small section, bar that it was fine. On emerging at the m1 poma the lifty advised me not to come down again else patrol would pull my ticket. Surely put a sign at the top saying "no beginners", mark the rocks and get the piste open. Similarly with the white lady, roped off at the top in march, really nasty frozen chunder, i fell hard twice and grazed my head and bashed my hip but it was such good fun! Why not just mark as experts only (probably appropriate in this case!) and get the run open. One can't get good at skiing in different underfoot conditions if one only skis corduroy! inform the skiier and let them make the decision as to whether it is safe to ski a run
Lastly, earlier this year two guys (skiing off piste) had tickets pulled for causing an avalanche on the headwall that was very close to infringing on the piste (traverse). Fair enough. But surely if there's any possibility of an avalanche onto a piste the piste should be closed. It doesn't particularly affect me, i can identify avalanche risk and avoid it but some punters might not be able to, what happens if a kid gets caught in it? Don't put the onus on the off piste skiiers to be responsible, afterall the slide could just as easily have been triggered by a snowboarder (  ) loudly shouting at his mate
Any sympathy? Or should I man up and go touring if I want to make my own decisions and ski on slopes that aren't so crowded that collision becomes almost inevitable even if skiing slowly and following fis rules (the number of times I've been cut up or ran into by out of control skiiers and boarders must be in the twenties for my last 14 ski days on the hill).
Note: No disrespect to patrol, lifties or the staff in the ticket office, they do a fantastic job helping out large numbers of skiiers quickly and efficiently. This post is intended to question management's policies. surely they should be looking to reduce overcrowding by opening up as much terrain as possible and encouraging skiiers to make their own decisions, while protecting newcomers to the sport - EDUCATION NOT LIMITATION!
Please don't hesitate to disagree with me, I don't intend to turn this into a shouting match, just interested to hear other's views. I quite often get told im out of touch with reality anyways!!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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This should be good.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Yawn : Another clueless uptight punter who has skied a few times in Scotland and thinks they know best....
Sweet blog... However you missed the bit about having sand stuck in yer vadge 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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It's a myth that shouting or noises can cause avalanches - you need a shockwave such as one from an explosion to cause the slide, or the weight of a skier/snowboarder/snowmobile etc applied directly to the snowpack.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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LOL, no disrespect to patrol but I'm going to question your decisions in four out of five of my points. 
The only one I have a bit of sympathy with is the uplift bit but that's been addressed much better and in more detail by other people.
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Richard_Sideways, I didn't even see that bit! 
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Signs are put in places to have an intended effect, they don't have to be truthful. If "experts only" sends a ton of people round the zig zag then great, if "rocks" stops eejits churning up a race piste then it has done it's job.
And yes, much as I'd like to see shouty boarders buried alive, their shouting won't trigger anything.
And you forgot (5) compulsory helmets
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| Quote: |
Signs are put in places to have an intended effect, they don't have to be truthful. If "experts only" sends a ton of people round the zig zag then great, if "rocks" stops eejits churning up a race piste then it has done it's job.
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Can't really agree with that, the problem with putting such signs at the top of the Gunbarrel to persuade people down the Zig Zags is that people then ignore the 'Experts Only' signs where they are legit! This has led to an occasional response of closing more advanced runs on the basis that those in the know will ski them anyway, while deterring the 'expert snowploughers' from the likes of the White Lady. Crying wolf?
With regards to the OP's point about runs in marginal conditions, they are more often than not neither formally open or closed. The patrolling style on CairnGorm Mountain though does change through the season, tending to be more proactive with more signage, ropes and potential closures at busier times when holiday makers make up a bigger % of the market. There are various reasons for this including customer feedback response from visitors during these parts of the season, and increased incident rates relative to numbers on the hill requiring patrol intervention.
At other times it's more common to see signs such as 'unpisted terrain - caution', 'unpatrolled - unmarked', 'At own risk', 'Piste Broken - Experts Only', 'Piste Broken - walking required' and the occasional classic to confuse tourists "Run Closed - Experts Only"!
Such as:
A slightly extreme example:
This issue is something that the head of ski patrol regards as his most difficult issue in terms of balancing, preventing inexperienced people getting themselves into trouble, but not preventing those who can ski something and would choose to do so from doing so. In late April and most of May virtually the whole mountain was open, but unmarked, with little signage and mostly ride anywhere (except when avalanche risk was a serious issue on Coronation Wall and the Cas Headwall).
Ultimately though it is a high mountain environment in which you take responsibility for your self. If in doubt about run status or whether something can skied, ask Ski Patrol.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Specifically wrt to the Gunbarrel, to suggest that skiers queue at the top of it so it's less busy is just bonkers. If your not comfortable skiing what is one of the busiest runs on the mountain (despite being one of the narrowest), then go by the Zig Zags.
| Quote: |
| ran into by out of control skiiers and boarders must be in the twenties for my last 14 ski days on the hill |
I find this rather hard to believe, personal experiences aside (and I know people who can hit 100 days a season and have not been involved in a collision on CairnGorm) - the stats indicate that Scotland has one of the lowest rider on rider collision incident per 1000 skier days of anywhere with commercial snowsports.
On that subject (and I've heard/seen this numerous times in various threads on here about people who keep getting involved in collisions or near misses)... the 'downhill skier' rule in the FIS guidelines does not trump the other rules despite what numerous people on here want to believe. Lets face it whether you're in the right and they are in the wrong is not going to change the outcome if you get a season ending injury. Look after yourself, but equally respect other mountain users.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Wed 28-11-12 12:52; edited 1 time in total
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"Obtain the perfect stone-ground finish for your rock-hoppers"
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Winterhighland,
| Quote: |
On that subject (and I've heard/seen this numerous times in various threads on here about people who keep getting involved in collisions or near misses)... the 'downhill skier' rule in the FIS guidelines does not trump the other rules despite what numerous people on here want to believe. Lets face it whether you're in the right and they are in the wrong is not going to change the outcome if you get a season ending injury. Look after yourself, but equally respect other mountain users.
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Nice post 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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The very amusing photo above ('best snow on upper slopes') is best updated with something topical - Cairngorm this morning, courtesy of Cairngorm Mountain FB page:
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It may not trump the other FIS Rules but, if you collide with someone and you were the uphill skier, you sure as hell are going to get the blame.
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You know it makes sense.
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Judge Swiller, pontificating again.
Swiller, believe me (I'm a doctor, not a judge), if you set off from stationary at the side of the piste, straight into the downward path of the uphill skier, you will be responsible for the crash - under the FIS rules, usually referenced by law.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Comedy Goldsmith, OK, yes, I had assumed both parties on the move. I had this picture of Coire Cas in my head.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Comedy Goldsmith, do you think Cirngorm have alerted the appropriate naval authorities about the three funnelled liner slowly sinking in the background.
I've heard of these things going down after tickling icebergs, but not cablecars.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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under a new name, nothing that happens on Cairngorm would surprise me!
It may have hit the train, or more likely a snowdrift. Apparently there's a Kate di Caprio currently wallowing around in the powder, drowning.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Judge Swiller wrote: |
| Comedy Goldsmith, OK, yes, I had assumed both parties on the move. I had this picture of Coire Cas in my head. |
Your Honour, nothing should be assumed in matters of law. Determine each matter on the basis of the facts. In this case we are considering the notorious gun barrel of the Coire Cas, normally governed by the law of suicide. The chances of someone being stationary in the gun barrel are fairly high - the place is usually littered - since they may be dead. However, we are dealing here with survivors who make another valiant attempt. The worst thing they can do is propel themselves into the path of some lune in oilskins who's just arrived from an oil rig (I've also seen the British Army up there, who are infinitely worse).
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Comedy Goldsmith, what looks stationary to you is probably moving imperceptibly slowly. So you think they've set off but actually its the continuation of a glacial-speed turn.
All rise, Lord Justice Comedy Goldsmith is now in session
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Comedy Goldsmith wrote: |
| Your Honour, nothing should be assumed in matters of law. Determine each matter on the basis of the facts. In this case we are considering the notorious gun barrel of the Coire Cas, normally governed by the law of suicide. The chances of someone being stationary in the gun barrel are fairly high - the place is usually littered - since they may be dead. However, we are dealing here with survivors who make another valiant attempt. The worst thing they can do is propel themselves into the path of some lune in oilskins who's just arrived from an oil rig (I've also seen the British Army up there, who are infinitely worse). |
LOL, y'know the Gunbarrel is one of the few runs I've come across anywhere that I almost think ought to gave a variable rating, as in one day (or even hour) it's a blue, then a red etc. It's a crazy run, one of the most 'interesting' skis I've had on it was, I think, last season when underfoot it resembled a luge run but it was quite quiet that day, add in bodies and people entering from the second zig zag and you've got a recipe for absolute chaos!
Do I think suggesting it should only be skied by 'experts in certain conditions is sensible, yes (especially given pretty much every young bloke and some older ones who can get down a red run in more or less one piece after a week or so of 'skiing' considers themselves to be a near expert, if not a total ski god!). Do I consider it sensible to stick signage there and leave it half the season no matter what the conditions are which only, as Alan suggests, encourages people to ignore this and other "experts only" signs, no I don't but unfortunately it's my lot not to be seen ignoring these signs when skiing with people who I don't consider to be "experts" (and that's 99% of people I see on the hill TBH) despite in some cases my believing they can cope with the terrain fine.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Wed 28-11-12 17:40; edited 1 time in total
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^ looks great to me
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Haggis_Trap, cheers for the assumptions, bit harsh tho.
Guess I'll forget any hope of an improvement in the piste skiing experience for the majority of cairngorm users any time in the near future, and personally stick mainly to touring!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Is that a cave in the middle of the Gunbarrel?
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| tomow92 wrote: |
| ....bit harsh tho. |
A bit like your unjustified critic of the Cairngorm ski patrollers & hill staff ?
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| Is that a cave in the middle of the Gunbarrel? |
With a river at the bottom!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Cool!
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Agreed, that's amazing. Hahaha only in Scotland. 
(My last and only trip to Scotland was ages ago now, what a great weekend that was).
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Awesome axe grinding 3 days before opening day!
| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
| However you missed the bit about having sand stuck in yer vadge |
^ greatest forum line ever! LOL
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Poster: A snowHead
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It's like a Bloody (great) Polo Mint!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Wow - amazing photos of the 'cave'!
| Mr Piehole wrote: |
| My last and only trip to Scotland was ages ago now, what a great weekend that was |
My last and only 'seems' like ages ago, only 2011 tho I realise. I agree, a great weekend can be had and I would really hope to do it again, altho would probably be a last minute decision next time
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The visibility's finally clearing up top.
The Ptarmigan/Ciste Bowl this morning.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I really need to get my van sorted out and make some weekend trips up there this year!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Is that a cave in the middle of the Gunbarrel? |
Oh, I had assumed it was a real Haggis_Trap at last.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
(I've also seen the British Army up there, who are infinitely worse).
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OY! I learnt to ski with the Army up there (well, Glen Shee but it's close enough) - be nice or I'll sik the rest of the troop on you.
feef, you do and I can get free, I'll chip in for fuel if you like the idea of a passenger.
I need someone to explain how a piste's condition relates to how well you ski. It seems to me that a sign stating 'this slope will core shot your bases like a shotgun deals with poultry' applies to expert and beginner alike, possibly more so to the expert due to speed.
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^ he's a ranger in the year and patroller in the winter (jammy frigger - know how many utter nonsense emails I got today?  )
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Thanks for your comments guys, its been helpful to see things from different perspectives, I don't agree with all your views but can understand where they're coming from.
Any comments of avalanche control in the ciste? Or headwall for that matter?
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