 Poster: A snowHead
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Right, I have now stuck our names on the EoSB, so I need to really do something about the old faithfuls, a pair of Atomic B90s that I think are the first ski boots I've ever owned, and have done 4 solid seasons with about 8 weeks of skiing.
They need to go to the bootyard in the sky. Or my loft as it is known, and I need something new. They are marginally too big, and definitely too soft.
So my question, in a roundabout way, is this:
Are the Fischer Vacuum jobbies at Ski Bartlett going to be better or worse (in terms of finance, comfort, and performance) than going to CEM to get sorted?
Both are just up the road. I am pretty sure both could get me in before the 21st April if I asked nicely. Both seem like approachable, friendly people that I'd happily buy from. Both have a good reputation.
I am starting to think I should just see what is going to work out cheaper and go for that, because I'll never know about the other. The Fischers will be £499. But how much for CEM? He probably won't know until he gets to look at my 104mm last feet with big calves and 100+kg bearing down on them. I don't want to waste his time, I also don't want to spend more money than I have to. At the same time if the fit is 10% better, that is worth £100 more. But will it be?
This is a bit like choosing which Cheeky Girl to go for. I don't think there would be a lot of difference, but it would be nice to remove a bit of the nagging doubt that comes from spending a lot of money with no idea whether the other one would have been better.
This is tough. Someone just tell me what to do, preferably with a good reason. That good reason could include "CEM can tell you to go and buy some clearance boots from X website that cost £200 and you can give him £100 for fitting and stuff, and you'll have the best boots ever" - or that CEM is in fact an abbreviation for Catherine something, and she is a 6 foot buxom blonde that likes to work naked. Or that the Vacuum jobbies just work, every time, straight out of the box, regardless of the feet, time, effort, and skill of the person using them.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Monium, CEM you know it makes sense.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Monium, I've been doing a lot of reading on the vaccuum boots after failing to get boots to fit my feet. I won't go down that road for various reasons. There's a great thread over on epicski worth reading. Easy to find with a search.
CEM every time
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Worth discussing your feet with Colin before you go - if he's got his numbers right he'll be very low on stock in specific boots so you might have to go elsewhere for the boot anyway. He does know his stuff however.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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fatbob, the width is fairly non-negotiable (I think) - we had to blow out the B90s to avoid pretty serious cramps, but the footbed might not be a million dollars.
It would definitely be preferable for me to pick up some clearance boots somewhere and get them fitted, even if I pay a premium for fitting as a result. Best of both worlds - properly good fitted boots for not a lot of money, spending the money on the important bit instead of the raw material.
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Go and see CEM, he's one of the best bootfitters in the land. You'll struggle to spend over £500 there anyway. Buy the bootfitter, not the boot.
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uktrailmonster, now the numbers are useful. I don't have particularly weird feet, just fairly wide feet. You reckon the bill is going to be less than the £499 I'd have to spend on the Vacuum jobbies regardless of new footbeds, a bit of work on a boot that will probably be fairly wide anyhow, and a cup of tea?
If that is the case, the numbers are starting to stack towards CEM. On the basis I can't call it between the two options, the cheaper one seems to be the better option, leaving me with money to pay the mortgage.
Anyone ever had experience of either option that didn't work out? That needed to go back? I can get by in the old boots, but I really want to get it right first time for this trip. I need something I can ski in all day, even if half of that will be having lunch, and that can take me through the next 5 years.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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what fatbob says, worst case CEM says he has no boots in stock that will fit you.....
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Monium, Go and see CEM, if he hasn't got something to fit you you've lost nothing, he's not going to ell you anything that isn't right for you, I've seen him turn away sales from people willing to buy the boots on their feet, but wouldn't sell them to them because he didn't think they were right. Can't see you spending £499 either.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| uktrailmonster wrote: |
| Buy the bootfitter, not the boot. |
Buy the right boot. Get it fitted by a great bootfitter.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| FlyingStantoni wrote: |
| uktrailmonster wrote: |
| Buy the bootfitter, not the boot. |
Buy the right boot. Get it fitted by a great bootfitter. |
get the bootfitter to tell you what the right boot is.
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Monium, I have a pair of Vacuums boots that I bought from Bartlett's. They have 40+ days on them and I'm very, very pleased with them.
They are the best boots I've had. Period.
Great fit. Really responsive. And the V stance of the last really suits me.
They are not, though, slippers - no boot with a proper performance fit is going to be. And I do have occasional hotspots in them because I wear them for 3 days a week or every other week and all feet change over time.
They are also not a doodle to fit. The machine needs setting up correctly and I had to be fairly insistent in how I wanted the machine set up - even at Bartlett's. The machine and process certainly don't replace a good bootfitter.
Unless you've consistently had problems with boot fit (I have narrow, low volume feet) then I'd go to see CEM first.
CEM's a great bloke and if he believes that he doesn't have something that will fit then he'll send you elsewhere. He did with me and when I turned up at the place he sent me to, the bootfitter already knew what I'd tried on and had just two pairs of boots waiting for me - all because of CEM's service.
The only thing I'd change about the Vacuum boots is that I would have preferred to have bought them from CEM.
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You know it makes sense.
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| kitenski wrote: |
| FlyingStantoni wrote: |
| uktrailmonster wrote: |
| Buy the bootfitter, not the boot. |
Buy the right boot. Get it fitted by a great bootfitter. |
get the bootfitter to tell you what the right boot is. |
+1
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| shoofly wrote: |
| ...I've been doing a lot of reading on the vaccuum boots after failing to get boots to fit my feet. I won't go down that road for various reasons. |
I'm curious as to why?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Monium, CEM comes with pies . . .
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| uktrailmonster wrote: |
| Go and see CEM, he's one of the best bootfitters in the land. You'll struggle to spend over £500 there anyway. Buy the bootfitter, not the boot. |
Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Sorry, had to say that 3 times just to emphasise the total logic of this ; )
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| FlyingStantoni wrote: |
| shoofly wrote: |
| ...I've been doing a lot of reading on the vaccuum boots after failing to get boots to fit my feet. I won't go down that road for various reasons. |
I'm curious as to why? |
This thread has enough in it alone to make me wary. http://www.epicski.com/t/100755/2012-fischer-vacuum-ski-boot-a-game-changer
| Quote: |
CEM
game changer...... not sure great technology, sure.... but having followed the 36 pages of this there are a few conclusions that can be reached, having spoken to dealers who have sold it well and others where it has sat on the rack i really don't know what to think, i know we will not stock the product next season, not enough space in the UK for more machines even though i have had a client call up fisher asking if they would supply us as he wants to buy a pair of them but from us only????
one thing that has become clear is that this boot is great for the right foot but it doesn't fit everyone, the success stories have probably come form times when the fitter has selected the boot for an ideal foot, the failures may have been form where there boot was requested by the client and was not ideal in shape
sure the boot deforms but it cannot go as far as some people expect it to, the plastic cannot simply disappear to make it fit round a super skinny foot and likewise cannot stretch around a big wide high volume foot
boot fitters will not go out of business because of this, as szk quite rightly said every other boot manufacturer would go out of business first or come up with something equal or better to the vac boot, when they do the stores that don't stock fisher will do done with another brand and so the cycle continues
did anyone ever think back to how this whole thing works, all the good ideas have already been had they are just being had again at new times
besides for one final time just because it is called the vacuum boot doesn't mean it is a vacuum process IT IS A PRESSURE FIT NOT A VACUUM!!! |
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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So in short everyone, including FlyingStantoni, who owns a pair of the Vacuums, thinks I should go to CEM?
Just to be doubly sure, everyone is pointing towards one cheeky girl. The other one wouldn't be a better option? Definitely? The difficulty is that there are very very few people who have tried both, even that Lembit Opik fellow. How do you lot know that the Vacuum isn't the often overlooked cheeky girl that didn't bunk off with a Lib Dem?
If it helps, my feet are fairly normal. Just a bit wide. If I could find a stockist with a good range of boots I reckon I could find a boot that fits pretty much off the shelf that would be adequate. But I'm hoping for a lot more than adequate given the money involved. Does this help in pushing it towards or away from CEM or the Vacuum?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Monium wrote: |
So in short everyone, including FlyingStantoni, who owns a pair of the Vacuums, thinks I should go to CEM?
Just to be doubly sure, everyone is pointing towards one cheeky girl. The other one wouldn't be a better option? Definitely? The difficulty is that there are very very few people who have tried both, even that Lembit Opik fellow. How do you lot know that the Vacuum isn't the often overlooked cheeky girl that didn't bunk off with a Lib Dem?
If it helps, my feet are fairly normal. Just a bit wide. If I could find a stockist with a good range of boots I reckon I could find a boot that fits pretty much off the shelf that would be adequate. But I'm hoping for a lot more than adequate given the money involved. Does this help in pushing it towards or away from CEM or the Vacuum? |
Do whatever you want. It makes no difference to me.
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Elston, 
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| Elston wrote: |
Do whatever you want. It makes no difference to me. |
Thanks for your permission. I will. And you're right. It doesn't make any difference to any of the very helpful people who have contributed either.
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I apologise for being very sharp this morning and well over the top( honestly I am not normally so grumpy  ). What I intended to say was that there has been a lot of good advice given in this thread (and every other boot thread I have ever seen on SHs) and at some point you have just got to make up your own mind!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Monium, I'm quite interested to see what you go for. I'm the same as you, wide foot. however, I have a relatively narrow heel with high instep* and one foot a whole size smaller than the other. This means I get heel lift problems in one boot in particular. I was recommended to go Fischer Vacuum, but I've read enough to put me off. On the other foot, I mean hand, I've read and heard nothing but good things about CEM and his knowledge, including the shop that recommended the Fischer route.
FWIW, the Vacuum range of boots is expanding for next season (12 models?) and the new range should be in stock late Autumn - so I'm told - can you wait that long? I am prepared to wait.
One other option for you, if you're looking for a performance fit that can still accommodate a wider forefoot, is the Atomic Live Fit is growing into their narrower lasted boots for next season. This includes the Burner, 98mm last with live-fit on outside, which I'm holding out for and hoping to get to try before committing to anything else.
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Monium, another vote for CEM, I took my other half down to see him re new boots for her, after almost 10 mins of close foot inspection stuff, she does have very odd feet he was spot on, with boot advice even tho he did not have them, but knew a man who did. 
Back after 2 weeks skiing and the boot advice he gave was perfect not one foot or shin problem this year
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| shoogly wrote: |
| wide foot. however, I have a relatively narrow heel |
Isn't that normal? I have met literally dozens of people who have had to had the forefoot blown and/or padding in the heel because of this. I have never met anyone who has complained that any boot has been just tight enough on the heel but too wide round the foot. Ski boot design failure?
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I'm not aware that Fischer currently have really wide hoof Vacuum boots ready yet - maybe next year?
Don't know why more companies don't offer higher flex boots in wide forefoot lasts - surely its a logical correlation that bigger, heavier people with wider feet might want stiffer boots?
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You know it makes sense.
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| maggi wrote: |
| Ski boot design failure? |
don't know, but interesting discussion there.
One thing I wish is that ski boots were sold in singles rather than pairs.
That's the biggest problem for me. Surely not everyone else has two feet that are the same size. I'd quite happily pay around £20 more per boot if it meant I could buy boots that are actually the size for my feet, rather than a pair that suits one but is very wrong for the other.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| fatbob wrote: |
| Don't know why more companies don't offer higher flex boots in wide forefoot lasts |
Lange offer the RS130 in a wide fitting (I think it's a 100mm last). CEM put me in a pair recently and I like them a lot. And they are a lovely blue colour.
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Poster: A snowHead
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rob@rar, That's not wide. I've met a few people in Head Vectors/ S boots as it's the only stock boot wide enough for them with vague performance attributes.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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fatbob, wider than most (all?) reasonably high performance boots. Then you blow them out, as CEM did for me. Are there many mainstream boots that have a last wider than 104mm? I know there's a couple of the Salomon range that go up to 106, but most seem to stop at 104.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rob@rar, I know you can blow/grind out but ultimately there is a limit on this as the clog overlap gets distorted or you run out of material. My main gripe is that the wider boots tend to be in the "comfort" end of the recreational range as a rule, consistent with a view that "performance" fit means narrow last. I think there is probably a bigger market in 103/4 mm lasts than manufacturers generally address.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Wed 4-04-12 15:41; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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fatbob, yeah, I agree.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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fatbob, they have a model with 104mm last. With a bit of vacuum/heat stuff that will fit. But I agree - getting a wide performance boot does seem to be an issue, the assumption from a lot of manufacturers seems to be that anyone looking for high flex boot performance will live with the discomfort. I certainly haven't found a boot in a lot of manufacturers ranges that come anywhere close.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Monium wrote: |
| This is a bit like choosing which Cheeky Girl to go for. |
Personally I'd go for the one that hasn't had sex with Lembit Opik, and on that basis I would choose Ski Bartlett.
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who the hell says i don't like fizz!!!!!!
pies are a thing of the past, but wine, red or fizzy is always good
Monium, not sure what we will have left but happy to take a look (i get back in the office on the 10th.....currently skiing in snow/rain/fog Delete depending on hour of day) in italy)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| CEM wrote: |
| Monium, not sure what we will have left but happy to take a look (i get back in the office on the 10th.....currently skiing in snow/rain/fog Delete depending on hour of day) in italy) |
Righty then. Decision made. Anyone who posts from their holiday to try and help is worth a go. It is going to have to be between the 10th and 15th if possible to get something sorted if I need to get some from elsewhere and get back to you before the 21st. I'll give you a call on the 10th to sort it, or feel free to PM me if you've got the diary in front of you 
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| Monium wrote: |
uktrailmonster, now the numbers are useful. I don't have particularly weird feet, just fairly wide feet. You reckon the bill is going to be less than the £499 I'd have to spend on the Vacuum jobbies regardless of new footbeds, a bit of work on a boot that will probably be fairly wide anyhow, and a cup of tea?
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My wife recently bought a new pair of boots and Zipfit liners from CEM, total was exactly £500. She already had decent footbeds, but Zipfits are over £200 alone. I think the fitting was something like £30 (included in the £500 total). Peanuts in the grand scheme of things. She's done 30 days in her new boots since Feb and says they are by far and away the best fit she's ever had. Her feet are pretty normal BTW, although she needed a very narrow Last for her heels. Previous boots were the same nominal size but too wide in the heel. Zipfits are fantastic too. That's the way I think I'll go next time i.e. visit CEM and do what he says.
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FAQ
This despite having handed over good money and, on one occasion, a bottle of decent fizz (it's a long story). How was I to know he didn't like fizz? 
