 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Civilserpent, Get the hire car, it will give you the freedom to move around when you choose. Good cheap food/beer with great music in the Poco Loco bar in the main shopping street. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Civilserpent,
You can actually get up and down the valley on the train or the bus. I never found the bus too bad from say, Chamonix to Argentierre for example but never used it for Courmayuer. If you have the budget get a car as the ride down by train to St Gervais takes about 50 mins and will then involve a walk to the lift into the Megeve network. It is feasible via public transport but you will waste such a lot of time if you are wanting to go to those resorts. If you just stayed in the valley just to and froing the 11 km or so betwen GM and Cham then the bus is ok,
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Civilserpent, wishful thinking. It's possible but not practical. Hire the car.
Eating? Don't really know Chamonix as well as I will (he he he) but I reckon there are few places Italian side where you won't feel well satisfied gastronomically and economically.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Go to Cham Sud for a few cheapo type places to eat. Chamonix has a large ski bum element so follow them..
Also head into the old part of town, lots of nice eating cafe type places but I can't recall the names.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Hire a car. Yes Italian food is good, i'm currently eating a pizza from 'Casa Velerio' and it rocks, like always. Look for a little shop in Cham' sud when you get here. I'll give you a map and some advice on how to advoid the tourist black spots. I will also give you some help with your boots, whether you need it or not. The shop sells mammut clothing and give the impression it has some connection with feet. Ask for a Smallzookeeper and we'll endevor to help as much as we can. Bring some fish for the animals! 
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, I would worry about you, except for one thing.................................We both enjoyed the 4 - 0 on Wednesday and the drubbing of Liverpool a couple of weeks ago 
CP
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Now, that's the FLAVA.
"Jog on 'GOONERS'."
"Jog on."
Don't know where to start on the CHELSEA thread. Hitler said it, " Big Smiles, Big smiles."
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Cool,
Thanks all. I'll take all your comments under advisement.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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From the 8 years mobile home experience the bus is only good for the in-valley resorts from Les Houches to Volocrine.
Courmayeour is in Italian side and I am not too sure there is a bus service at all. It is expensive to use the tunnel.
Megeve can be reached via St Gervais which is a lot closer to Chamonix.
I also recommend a hired car if one is serious about skiing out of the valley.
Believe it or not I seldom ate at Chamonix while staying there. Every meal I had was poor. Salanche is a much better place for food and is 15-20 away minutes with car.
Unless one has been to Chamonix loads of time the resorts at Volocrine, Grand Montet, La Fegere, Brevent and Les Houches should make a week very easy to pass away.
There are loads of possibility for day trips out of valley
Verbier is at the end of Col Fe Forclaz in the Swiss side, another 10 miles will get you the whole of Cran Montana.
Flaine the Grand Massif is roughly the same distance as Megeve from Chamonix, both with +200km pistes to choose from.
The Whole of the French side of Porte Du Soliel (Les Gets/Morzine/Avorias) is another 10 to 15 miles from Flaine.
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Civilserpent, been to Chamonix quite a few times, and we're going there for xmas. You MUST try the Atmosphere, sort of opposite the casino, on a cantilever over the river (go on the river bridge looking AWAY from the Argentiere direction and you'll see it). Best restaurant we've ever been to ANYWHERE!!!! Very reasonable too, at about 13 quid for a Fillet Steak.
We've booked for xmas eve
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Civilserpent, oh and don't forget clean underwear for skiing round the paths on the grand montets 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Charlatanefc, that's the first time I've ever seen the Atmosphere called "reasonable"  . It is probably the best restaurant in Cham though - we go there once most trips, but it's very easy to blow up to £50 on a meal if you get any half decent booze with it.
Civilserpent, we've also had excellent meals in Munchies (IIRC - anyway the Korean one on the left of that narrow alley heading from the main square to the Guides' Office). Excellent pizzas can be had in the main square in Cham-Sud; it's a nice restaurant, not too busy and very economical.
I would also tend to agree that you'd be best leaving Megeve/StG to another trip - unless the snow is really thin in which case you get better skiing there (along with Les Houches). I've been there at least half-a-dozen times and taken a car about half of them. If you've got a family with you the car may be a good idea, but if you're just one or two the buses should be fine. I've still not got over to Courmayeur (we did try getting there once over the top of the mountain, but screwed up on getting an early morning lift and didn't leave enough time). Grands Montets is great, but does need about 1m of snow to cover up the rocks. If you've not got that by mid Jan though the season's really terrible. The buses to Flegere/GM/LeTour are fine, although if in the morning rush you're best finding where they start from and getting on at that stop - you do take a tour of Cham that way, but at least you get a seat! And finish the day with a beer/vin-chaud or three at the bottom of the slope until the rush has subsided.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Got stitched up when using a cab to Courmayer for the day. My hotel said it would be about 10 Euros (should have known is was too good), ended up paying 90 Euros in total one way. On the return leg got the bus for 9 Euros from Courmeyer town square after relaxing on the Italian side for a while. Will not be making that mistake again.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Top stuff. Thanks all. 
Whilst I am asking, what about the ski areas? I've heard some of the slopes are really hairy- particularly on le Grand Montets. Is this true? and where are the best runs (intermediate wise)?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Civilserpent,
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I've heard some of the slopes are really hairy- particularly on le Grand Montets.
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The marked pistes are no more difficult than many other French resorts. Grand Montets gets it's reputation because of the amount of off-piste available. The marked pistes are challenging, long and quite exposed to the weather, above the tree line. The hill is perfectly do-able by an intermediate level skier, stick to the pistes, and pick a nice clear day to go up. GM, IMHO is not a good hill for the day after you arrive. With the possible exception of Le Tour, all of the skiing in Chamonix gives a "proper" mountain experience. Respect the mountain and the conditions and you will have a great time
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Civilserpent, Depends what you mean by best ? GM is good for offpiste and bumps - but you should go - even for a day. They view from the top of the GM cable car (costs extra) is well worth it - even if you don't ski down - the only runs of the top are marked black.
Le Tour is really gentle, and get's nice sun. Can't speak for Brevent/Flegere 'cos I've only ever used those lifts to start day tours, or in the summer.
Les Houches - steeper than Le Tour, lots of trees, not as much sun.
And finally - if the weather is good, it would be rude not to go up the Aiguille de Midi - again for the view !
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Grand Montets, La Flegere and Brevent in Chamonix are not particularly steep but there is very little "Flat" area. Often the only way down after a chairlift ride is a steep red or a black. Intermediates may find it steep as there is little "gentle" slopes as breathing spaces.
[url=http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SQD1AjUVKfWgfyGEbsywCM6ZWRNLyPM8ITKlaQuwONvTpUteOuVaXLonGqaPRB91yJVscXDbF!gTkeqc9t3OxEMd*qPosPZpCt0iwCuxEFXYr9Z*HDL1qg/p2240204.jpg?dc=4675545127119764735]A view at Grands Montets red slope[/url]
[url=http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SQD1AjkVHva5lVDQGZJjvfsCAN6Isd3pVcTZpr*MRWEdY3ssIAiw5UCgWdCZ!o4b2rbnQqCZXtX62FDlXhL4pQUznL2RaG39zzv7EeVvxeqxvqELBh9uJg/p2210139.jpg?dc=4675545128935688043]A view at La Flegere red slope (now linked by a cable car with Brevent[/url]
The Les Houches (outside the Chamski pass!) and Le Tour are more suitable for intermedites with a decent size. Smaller resorts like Les Bossons and Les Planards have only a couple of chailifts each. The latter is a few minutes walk from the Chamonix town centre.
La Vormaine (bottom of Le Tour) and Les Chosalets (bottom of Grands Montets) are beginner areas only.
Intermediates will find more scope for crusing in the 300Km Domaine Evasion pistes in Megeve/St. Gervais/Rochebrune or 265km Grand Massif pistes in Flaine/Les Carroz/Morilon/Sameon/Sixt, which are 20 and 38 miles from Chamonix. The distance to the latter can be cut significantly reduced by driving to Les Carroz and ski into Flaine. Both of these large domains can be very busy and hence the quiet Les Contamines, near St Gervais, comes as a surprising nice place to ski as it is at the end of a hidden valley.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Thu 27-10-05 12:40; edited 1 time in total
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GrahamN,
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Charlatanefc, that's the first time I've ever seen the Atmosphere called "reasonable" . It is probably the best restaurant in Cham though - we go there once most trips, but it's very easy to blow up to £50 on a meal if you get any half decent booze with it.
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Heh heh heh. I work in bars and restaurants all the time here in the UK, and when I see whats being charged for a steak in some of the crapholes I have to go in, the Atmosphere is "bloody cheap" more than "reasonable". As you say, it's usually a once a holiday blowout when we go in there. As for half decent booze, I'm more a quantity than quality sorta bloke
Civilserpent,
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Whilst I am asking, what about the ski areas? I've heard some of the slopes are really hairy- particularly on le Grand Montets. Is this true? and where are the best runs (intermediate wise)?
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I have over six weeks of skiing, and have done a day on the grand montets last March. I must admit to being a bit overawed by it. After only ever previously been to La Plagne, Les Arcs and Wengen, I was more used to large open areas. The sheer ruggedness and drops of the terrain made me see things a whole different way skiing wise tho. Previously I'd preferred to cruise blues and reds. The ONLY blues on the Grand Montets are 6 ft wide paths with 2000ft drops off the side. This made me realise how much better it is coming down a moderately steep red at a good pace, rather than struggling round a flat path trying as hard as I could to stay away from the edge
As I say, I'm doing 9 days in Chamonix over xmas, and my bro tells me Le Tour is fantastic with gentle, wide open runs for really building the confidence, and said Flegere is fairly easy skiing as well.
He also mentioned the Vallee Blanche. If he thinks I'm getting lowered out over a ridge on a rope 4000m up, he can guess again 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, where exactly is your shop??? May come in and say hello We stayed in the Morgane for a night in March!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Charlatanefc wrote: |
| The ONLY blues on the Grand Montets are 6 ft wide paths with 2000ft drops off the side. This made me realise how much better it is coming down a moderately steep red at a good pace, rather than struggling round a flat path trying as hard as I could to stay away from the edge |
Sorry, but even with allowance for artistic licence that is just plain untrue, although I would agree the grading on the Montets should generally be uprated by about half a grade when comparing with many other resorts. There is one blue (I always thought it was a green actually) track between Lognan and Plan Joran restaurants which is possibly a tad hairy if you're a raw beginner and can require a bit of pushing along in places if you've not started with enough speed, but probably no worse than tracks in most other resorts (Tracks are always graded well below what they ought to be). The track returning to Lognan from the other side is a actually a red. I also can really think of any good reason to use it unless you're heading for the chairlift down at the end of the day.
Civilserpent, if you're an adventurous intermediate, you'll have a ball. There are three lovely blues (Marmottons, Les Coqs and Les Arolles - although the last can get uncomfortably slushy late in the season). I basically learned to ski on these - spending about half of my 2nd and 3rd weeks on skis pounding down them over and over again, and finding something new in them (and me) each time. I still love particularly Les Coqs now (about 20 weeks skiing later) - and normally head there for the first run of the trip (although once we get to the top of the lift I then normally get dragged away for some lumpy bumpy gulley instead). They are a bit steeper than your average blue, but give you plenty of opportunity to practice your turning and stopping techniques, if you're a go for it type. Admittedly I've certainly seen easier reds elsewhere, but I wouldn't recommend Les Grands Montets to a timid skier anyway. The other good thing about those blues is that as the Montets is a hardcore skiers' paradise the hardnuts generally don't use the lifts serving these pistes, and the longest I've ever queued for either of those lifts is about 3 minutes. There're also a host of great gullies coming down beside and between these runs if you've a taste for the lumpy stuff. The tops of the two main reds can be pretty awkward for a beginner or early intermediate, particularly if icy - I spent a fair bit of time sliding down them on my fundament those first weeks. And of course you can get as adventurous as you like (and probably more than is sensible) off the side of them - off to the left of Combes about half way down is the normal place to start if you fancy that kind of stuff.
The Brevent area also has a lovely easy blue, and some great cruisy reds (e.g. Col Cornu), and some of Flegere's pistes are essentially off-piste (e.g. Combe Lachenal - which normally requires a few minutes hike to get to anyway). As noted by ski these linked areas are often starting off points for tourers, and are normally seen as poor shadows of the Montets, but there's some great skiing there that shouldn't be missed. Not good late in the season though as they are south facing - but it should be excellent in mid-Jan. This side of the valley is a pretty good starting off point for a holiday.
Le Tour, as noted above, is used as the main learners area with big wide open spaces. If you want to up the level a bit though, then head off the back of Tete de Balme for some lovely treeline skiing.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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GrahamN, I'll take your word for it mate, as I say I've only had one day there, but every blue that I DID encounter was a very narrow path, and my brother told me basically the same thing b4hand (altho to be fair it's very seldom he will ski a blue anyway)
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| Le Tour, as noted above, is used as the main learners area with big wide open spaces. If you want to up the level a bit though, then head off the back of Tete de Balme for some lovely treeline skiing. |
Hmm that sounds good, that's my favourite sort of run. I love the treelined runs towards Vallandry in Les Arcs, and Les Coches and Montalbert in La Plagne.
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If you're looking for a cheap Italian meal, you must try 'Le Caveau' next to the Chinese restaurant on the main high street, near Midnight Express. It's well hidden and easily missed as it's underground in a converted wine cellar. I've lived in Cham for the past 4 years and still go back there on a regular basis - the garlic bread is to die for! Enjoy!
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You know it makes sense.
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Nix, welcome to snowHeads. Feel free to pass on any more local knowledge as you like.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Welcome to snowHeads Nix. I was trying to think of the name of the underground restaurant you mention there, I remembered it was something like Cave.. Agree with you that it is excellent food and value.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Local knowledge?...... For those of you who are familiar with Chamonix, you'll know about the old, green, Darth Vadar lift (the Index) on La Flegere? You'll all be pleased to know that it has been replaced by a brand new 6-man chair, which will take you higher than the old lift - which means you no longer have to unstrap and contend with a flat!
On the subject of good beer and food, you should definately try the MBC on the Route du Bouchet - great atmosphere (esp apres ski), home-brewed beer and huge portions of food!! Another one not to be missed!
The Jeckyll (mentioned earlier) has recently changed hands, so I can't comment on what it's like now, but it wasn't too hot last winter - food and atmosphere left a lot to be desired. Might give it another go this season though!
Recommend the Cantina for a messy night out - good fun!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Welcome from me too Nix and thanks for the info.
Is it possible to go up to the Aguille du Midi and back down into Italy? I was thinking of doing it on a clear day to go to Cormayeur in order to check out the views but it isn't clear on the piste maps whether that is feasible.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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One needs a guide to do the Vallee Blanc. It isn't a groomed piste! The run takes a whole day and may not happen if the guide considers it risky. Many got killed by dropping into the crevasses in the glacier. Some may regard it as the ultimate skiing.
The two photos of Grands Montets and Brevent of my earlier post were blocked but I have reinstated them to be clickable now to show the red slope standard in Chamonix. With apprehension I have sampled some black runs in France, Switzerland, Autria, Italy, Sweden, Norway, Scotland and Canada. I would say some of the Chamonix slopes are among the "respectable" class.
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brian
brian
Guest
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Civilserpent, I don't think so. There is a lift linking Punta Helbronner, Courmayeur starting point for the Vallée Blanche, to the Aiguille du Midi, but I don't think it opens in winter.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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FAQ
