 Poster: A snowHead
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Please let me start by saying this is in no was a criticism of foreign instructors, and definitely no offense is meant.
I have been skiing 3 times now, twice in Italy once in Austria, can parallel turn, ski reds etc and did my 1st black last time out, so my instruction has been great.
Was just wondering how much you think the instructions given gets lost in translation. This year in Claviere our instructor Fiore, who was great by the way, at times seemed to get frustrated with himself (or maybe us) because his English wasn't enough for him to get his point across. His Enlgish was a million times better than my Italian, which is the actual problem, but he struggled to get his point across at times.
I have recently downloaded an app featuring Darren Turner and having watched it a few times it struck me how much more/quicker i would learn with an English instructor.
again, no criticism or offense, I am at fault for speaking no foreign language at all.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I had my first week earlier this year and had lessons with ESF. We were all just basically figuring out snow ploughing and generally being an obstacle around the slopes.
The instructor kept talking to us about hedges, and how we needed to do something with hedges. My previous experience of skiing terminology was basically zero, except for the South Park "Asspen" episode which was all about pizza, french fries. It took me a while to realise that it wasn't an extension of pizza -> french fries -> (some logical leap) -> hedges, and she was in fact talking about the edge of the skis.
Later in the week someone asked the instructor what she meant by 'hedges' and she went right off about how we didn't speak french so we shouldn't make fun of her accent.
It seems really obvious now but at the time... 
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Thu 15-11-12 14:20; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Trying to edit above! 
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Thu 15-11-12 14:20; edited 1 time in total
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howster, Chances are you will learn better in your native language and an instructor delivering a lesson will have more detail explanations when given in their native language.
There are plenty of good quality instructors who never interact with English speaking clients as they don’t speak the language. Sadly there are also those that do teach English speakers despite not speaking the language either!!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Like I say this is in no way a criticism, but it must be so frustrating for the instructor trying to get his point across to a bunch of people that don't speak a word of his/her language.
It was just that from watching the app I've got i can appreciate the huge benefits of an english instructor explaining in English precisely what he wants me to do, the reasons why i need to do it, and then exactly what I'm doing right/wrong. Also, the other way around, me asking him questions that he 100% understands.
by the way I recommend the app!!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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If language is a concern, it's worth considering learning in Scandinavia (I learnt in Finland, but my experiences in Norway have been similar, and from talking to the instructor I got the impression that they move between the Scandi resorts anyway). The level of English spoken over there is very, very good, and the ski instruction is excellent as well. Hardly anybody outside of Scandinavia learns to speak those languages, so they all learn English in order to communicate with the rest of the world. It just gets a little embarrassing when you realise they're also fluent in German, French, Spanish...
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I'd say that learning something which is technical and athletic (and for most people non - intuitive) like skiing is almost pointless if the instructor doesn't have a very strong command of a language you are fluent in. I'm sure as a teenager I learnt more from a week in the Cairngorms than from any ESF lessons prior or subsequent to that. Follow me & bend ze kneez are cliches because they are the main statements people remember being repeated ad naseum.
Nowadays I guess I could learn more from someone who could adapt to the way I learn fastest rather than language specificity, but it would be hard for me to articulate what I prefer with a language barrier.
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This is a subject that I find very interesting. I teach skiing during the winter and English during the summer. About 90% of the ski lessons I taught last season were in German, to Austrians, Germans, Dutch, Belgians, Latvians…
When I first started teaching skiing in German I often got frustrated because I didn’t have enough vocabulary, but gradually my German has improved and now most of the time the students understand what I’m saying straight away.
One of my philosophies for my teaching is that if the student doesn’t understand what to do, then it’s my fault for not explaining, describing, or demonstrating in a way that the student can understand. If they didn’t “get it” the first time then I need to figure out how to present the information in a way that makes sense to them. This carries through everything that I teach, whether I’m speaking English or German to a child, a teenager, an adult or someone with learning difficulties.
(In fact, I’d recommend all ski teachers to spend some time teaching someone with a learning difficulty to ski. It will make you think about what you’re saying and how you’re saying it!)
However, this lost in translation problem doesn’t only arise when the instructor’s native language is different from yours. I have been working for the past couple of years with a guy who had lots of training with various native English speaking instructors but he had lots of confusion in his head. When I first saw him ski he was a strong skier but had a few weird things going on. Over time we have been gradually finding out what he understands from what he has been told and then working out really what the instructors meant when they said it. I wrote a blog post on exactly this subject yesterday evening, you can read about one of his confusions here: http://alpinefreedom.blogspot.co.at/2012/11/words-are-tricky.html
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Thanks all for your input, all very interesting..... to me anyway.
SaraJ, I'm glad you found this interesting and when i get time (I'm in work and not supposed to be on the internet) I will read your blog. As you said, it is definitely not the fault of the instructor is there is a breakdown in communications. As it happens, i do intend to learn German as I intend on skiing for some time to come.
Fatbob, yes it MUST be easier to learn from someone fluent in my language, but if have ok so far, with good teachers. But there are a lot of one word instructions when a proper discussion would be hugely more beneficial.
Thanks for your replies.
I almost didn't post this as I thought people would take offense and hurl abuse at me for insulting instructors....
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As you said, it is definitely not the fault of the instructor is there is a breakdown in communications.
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Hmm... I actually said the opposite. As an instructor it is my responsibility to get the message across in whatever way I can. I'm being paid to improve somebody's skiing and I enjoy the challenge of figuring out how to do that in the most effective way possible.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I think most instructors (myself definitely included) talk far too much. Having a reduced capacity to blather on about the theory would in many cases help deliver a better lesson.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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howster, why not ski in the US if you want your lessons in English? Might be easier than learning German.....
It is possible to teach someone to ski without knowing a word of their language, although it's easier when that person is a total beginner, rather than trying to get more involved technical aspects across.
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SaraJ,
apologies I have just read it again and I'd misread it first time, I still stick by that it isn't the instructors fault if they can't get something over to someone that doesn't speak their language, say German for example. I am in their country asking them to teach me something but I don't speak a word of their language I just expect them to speak mine (a common and annoying/embarrassing English trait), the fact he/she speaks English is a bonus to me but they are an instructor first and foremost.
Skinanny, I'd love to ski in the US or Canada, maybe in the future!! But to be honest I'd like to learn a foreign language, whether as a personal challenge or to help with skiiing.
Really?? You could teach someone to ski without speaking a word of each others language??
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You know it makes sense.
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Really?? You could teach someone to ski without speaking a word of each others language??
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For sure... As kieranm, says, you lose all of the unnecessary chatter and, you have to be accurate with demos. But, yes, like skinanny, says, it's possible. I had a ball last season with a couple of Romanian kids who didn't speak English or German.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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why not ski in the US if you want your lessons in English?
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 no need to go so far (and pay so much...... I've been astonished at some of the North American ski lesson prices quoted on SHs recently). There are plenty of native English-speaking instructors, certainly a lot in France, teaching both in independent British ski schools and (smaller numbers) with French ski schools. It's obvious from posts on SHs that there are also a number of native English-speaking instructors who teach in Austria and Italy, though I don't remember reading about any specifically "British" ski schools in either Austria or Italy. (Why is that? Harder to set up business there? )
I do agree that it can be very helpful to have a native (or at any rate very good) English speaker for instruction at higher levels, though I also agree that being a native speaker doesn't necessarily say anything about ones communication skills.
The lack of language skills doesn't just affect British skiers, of course. It seems from posts I've read here that the level of German language required to teach in some Austrian ski schools is pretty minimal. If I were a German I'd be irritated to have paid for an expensive ski lesson only to find that my instructor only had a GCSE style grasp of the language and a range of stock "ski expressions". I'm sure French customers would be equally irritated if given a British instructor who wasn't fluent in French.
I have private lessons in France, sometimes, with a couple of instructors I know pretty well, who really don't speak very good English. In fact we usually end up speaking French - my French isn't that great, but at least that way I get a French lesson too! They are very good instructors, very nice guys, I enjoy the lessons and I always learn, but it's not the same as having sessions with good native-English speaking instructors (though it is cheaper!!!  ).
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Poster: A snowHead
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I only skied with French and Swiss local instructors and instruction was always great. I think qualification and experience are more important than fluency in language. Plus you are normally able to see what instructor means as everything is demonstrated. And at higher levels I think it's important to be able to communicate your goals to your instructor and he should be able to access your performance by following you and suggest what you need to do to achieve your goals. It shouldn't require fluency in English if the instructor is good. Most instructors will speak sufficient English for this, but just having instructor who is a native English speaker won't guarantee the best instruction, so I don't think language is a massive factor.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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howster, I teach at least one person per season who doesn't speak a word of English - so far I've had Russian, Romanian, Bulgarian, Brazilian, Chinese, Japanese, Korean and Mexican guests who didn't speak any English.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Where I learnt to ski there was a problem for a couple of wears when lots of Polish families found out about how great it was and put their kids in ski school. Now, the ski school was caught completely by surprise by this so every class had one or two kids that none of the teachers could interact with.
As an aside, my very first lessons at the age of 4ish, I don't think the teachers had any English, and obviously I knew no German at that age (though I learnt Heisse Schokolade, bitte, very soon) and I wet myself because I was too scared to so them how or where to go to the loo. Awkward. Also there's those end-of-week photos of me sitting on the instructors lap and I look absolutely distraught.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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RibenaRockstar: thanks for sharing.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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kieranm, Just pointing out that while for adults the language barrier doesn't have to be a big issue, for kids it can be - and the first bit was about just making sure the skischool has the capacity to teach x-speakers. I'm sure I'm not the only one who had similar experiences, what do you expect to happen when there's one shy little three/four year old English kid in a group of German speakers?
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Totally agree with the points you're making; just thought your were brave to confess all that to strangers on the Internet.
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It all depends on the learner - I'm sure most "systems" now have ways of recognising this - kids & visual learners learn a lot by copying and doing so language is less of an issue, of more linguistic learners there is a division between those who are "Just tell me exactly what to do" and those who need who understand the why as well as the how.
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kieranm, I was four  and I'd rather that be the story than like most students 'I was so totally bungalowed and I chundered EVERYWHERE'
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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howster, I don't think you need apologise at all for not speaking the instructor's language. It's reasonable to expect those who make a living out of being able to communicate with clients to be capable of doing just that. As SaraJ says, it's down to the instructor to provide a good service. Of course more pragmatically, both yourself and the ski school should be laying it on the table. You should tell them what you need and they should tell you what they will provide. If it's satisfactory at the price, the deal is done. The locals (and indeed yourself ) naturally like it when you learn a few pleasantries (or more) of their language but if they are actively seeking your patronage (they might not be!  ) they should be prepared to work for it (provide what their customers want). If they're not prepared to step up then you should go elsewhere, and their businesses will have to deal with any consequence (there may or may not be ).
In answer to your original question though, like many have already said, it makes a mahoosive difference in what you get out of a lesson, how well you and your instructor understand each other. Personally, I really wouldn't bother if they didn't speak one of my languages pretty damn well. If you go to a resort frequented by Brits you're more likely to find local instructors with sufficiently good English, but you must make the point when you book with the school that this is of particular importance. IME I've then not had much of a language problem with the instructor in Austria. Italy and esp France are a different story . . . However the large French resorts have British ski schools and nothing will beat native English speaking instructors. US, Canada, Antipodes are obvious alternatives to the British ski schools in France (and Switzerland). Also as stated by others, the standard of English in local ski schools in the Nordic countries and in Switzerland is very high indeed ergo generally no language problems there either.
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there's those end-of-week photos of me sitting on the instructors lap and I look absolutely distraught.
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 My daughter did a week in an Austrian ski school at 4. the teacher of the very baby group spoke some English, but she was super-bored going under Mickey Mouse archways etc and chose to be promoted to the next class, where the instructor spoke no English. She got on fine, just copying - kids don't learn by being talked to - but she did say that German sounded cross all the time, even when the instructor (who was actually charming) was smiling. She knew that if she moaned it would be back to Mickey Mouse. It's certainly not ideal for older kids or adults, though.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I spent a week in Gressoney being taught by an Italian whose only other language was French. Luckily my "skiing French" was up to translating what he said into English - for the other English in the class... and for a Dutch couple who spoke neither Italian nor French!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Oh, something I've just thought of - I did all my skiing from tiny to age 9 in Austria, so I only knew the German vocab for lots of things, which meant lessons in Italy were totally weird. Also things like the snake following closely, we'd never done that so despite being in the 'top' group (school ski trip) my grasp of lesson rules was zero, because it was all so different.
As an example, I didn't know til I was 15 or 16 that there was another name for what I knew as 'Langlauf' (cross-country). Also for ages I thought the German for 'four' was 'Bobo' (Eins, zwei, drei, BOBO! - the skischool had a mascot of a skiing penguin called Bobo....)
So even though I've always been taught in English, lots of the vocab is completely different.
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