 Poster: A snowHead
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Just interested if, or how many of you, move you footbeds from your ski boots into your everyday footwear. Or vice-versa.
Are you being educated as to the benefits of Orthotics for general health, by the shop staff?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, I'm not sure my ski boot footbeds would work in my shoes, since they are too rigid. I do have different Conformable footbeds in my Hiking Boots though, which have much more flexibility.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I have orthotics which I wear in my shoes. They were made by the podiatristr at my chiropractor rather than made by a ski boot fitter.
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| rob@rar.org.uk wrote: |
| I have orthotics which I wear in my shoes. They were made by the podiatristr at my chiropractor rather than made by a ski boot fitter. |
Does this mean that you wouldn't wear orthotics made by a 'Ski Boot Fitter', in shoes?
Did they make the cast weighted or unweighted?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, the chap who did the orthotics in my shoes used to work for Profeet so I guess he has also done ski boots, running shoes, golf shoes, etc. Rather than distinguishing between the person who made my orthotics perhaps I should have distinguished between my ski footbeds and my shoe orthotics, which are very different from each other. I wouldn't wear my ski footbeds in my shoes as there is just not enough room, unless I go up a shoe size.
I'm not entirely sure what the definition of weighted or unweighted casting is, but I stood in a box with a kind of hard foam which left an imprint of my foot. A temporary orthotic was made and adjusted while my lower leg was videoed while I ran or walked on a treadmill.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Sun 30-10-05 13:23; edited 1 time in total
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SMALLZOOKEEPER,
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Did they make the cast weighted or unweighted?
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What are the "pros and cons" of each method?
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| snowbunny wrote: |
SMALLZOOKEEPER,
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Did they make the cast weighted or unweighted?
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What are the "pros and cons" of each method? |
Massive can of worms open and boring into the carpet, if we start this descussion here.
However we can say, that there are two schools of thought. The weighted method and the Unweighted.
The argument for weighted is ridiculous, so i won't go into it. However the argument for unweighted is that if you take a cast of the foot weighted you take an impression of the problem foot and alow the three main joints in the foot to dis-locate, therefore you can't bring the foot into it's neutral position.
I advise all my clients, when searching for a podiatrist to ask first if they make a weight-born or unweighted cast, as a rule, the weighted cast makers are best advoided. This is my opinion, nothing more. It is a very complex debate and is not really for this chat room.
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, I like this thread, I currently use my shoe orthotics in my ski boots, I have very flat feet and without orthotics in my shoes I suffer from knee roll and back pain, If I run without orthotics and in anything other than nearly brand new trainers I get all of the aforementioned plus some ankle pain ! I mention this first to give you an idea of my level of problem. I have never seen a prof bootfitter ( I think I should) but last season I found that I was skiing for longer and faster than in years gone by but my feet were (felt like) spreading in my boot, like they would in my shoes if I did'nt wear orthotics. SO I put my orthotic footbeds (made whilst unweighted) in my ski boots. Wow what a difference not just virtually no pain or foot "spread" but it became easier to carve and find the angles that must have been eluding me, result new skier... honestly could not believe the difference
I have had weighted footbeds made up in the past and they were not helpful plus they also happened to be of a lighter weight foam that simply compress's over a few weeks in ordinary shoes, this foam footbed is also available in off the shelf varietys that you cut down to your shoe size, these will be no good (IMHO for in or out of ski boots). I think to use shoe orthotics in your ski boots they need to be made of very hard bases with perhaps a softer upper to them for them to be effective in anything like long term.
I think flat footed skiers will sometimes have less problems in the early years of skiing in the same boots if they only ski once or twice a year as the foot is pretty immobile in the boot but after a while the factory footbed compress's and that seems to put strain on the ligements causing all the associated problems of pain/posture that will get quickly worse and worse once the bed has flattened and in my case making skiing more difficult (er thats my excuse anyway  its not my fault its my feet is a great excuse).
I would now like to have some custom footbeds made up for my ski boots this season, anyone know where I can find a competant boot fitter near Morzine/PDS ?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, When my footbeds were made my feet were mapped by standing an a series in pins that moved to the high points of the sole of my foot. This was done with my foot resting on the pad and also in the standing position with knees slightly bent. This data was fed into a computer and a computer controlled machine then proceeded to care the footbed from a blank prepared to suit my ski boot. The whole process took about 3 hours plus final fitting. This was done in Banff but I can remember the name of the bootfitters though. Very happy with the results.
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Surefoot. Is the name. They have a shop in Verbier, i think. I'm not sure it's the best way, however, like you they have had many satisfied clients. I'm just glad when you're happy. I was happy once, then i met the missus and now i'm over the moon.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I wear Superfeet in my everyday footwear, they do low volume versions, even a model for dress shoes! which I think are different to skirt shoes I don't have problem feet, just enjoy the support and comfort.
I have Conformable in ski boots, tele boots & snowboard boots, wouldn't ride without them.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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The only footbeds I have used apart from skiing have been the standard sorbothane ones for hiking, I did find that when wearing a heavy pack on rough descents they made a fair bit of difference regarding knee pain.
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think i might try this tomorrow and see if it helps my back ?
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You know it makes sense.
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as well as the weighted/unweighted debate there seems to be one about whether to control the foot via the arch or the heel cup.
I got professional orthotics made (unweighted papier mache cast) but I've been told by another podiatrist that I'd be better with some foucsed on my heel rather than putting support/pressure under the arch
any views on SZK?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, Where is your shop too ?
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Poster: A snowHead
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CHAMONIX-FRANCE
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, Do you advocate moving your footbeds from ski to normal footwear?
Looking at my ski footbeds I would not expect them to last 2 minutes in my normal shoes, they are not designed to flex in anything like the way the ones I have in my normal shoes are.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Royal, Thanks for that what I MEANT to ask was do you have a web aite so I can grab your contact details, I'm spending this seaon in Morzine, Chamonix is not far away and I need some footbeds from someone who knows feet.
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As I understand it the custom footbeds most of us have are are not orthotics and aren't described as such. Orthotics are produced from an unweighted foot, custom footbeds are produced weighted.
Custom footbeds are not intended to correct any foot structure problems, they are only intended to provide support for the existing form of the foot. Orthotics on the other hand are used to re-shape the foot to correct abnormalities, obviously orthotocs cannot be made from a weighted foot as they would just reinforce the problem rather than cure it.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| jedster wrote: |
as well as the weighted/unweighted debate there seems to be one about whether to control the foot via the arch or the heel cup.
I got professional orthotics made (unweighted papier mache cast) but I've been told by another podiatrist that I'd be better with some foucsed on my heel rather than putting support/pressure under the arch
any views on SZK? |
Personally i work with the heel, or more correctly, the joint the heel bone is a part of. We don't support the arch, because that can hurt if you haven't correctly stabilised the STJ (joint in the rearfoot). We simply follow its new shape caused by repositioning the STJ, therefore offering better contact and preasure distribution.
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| rich wrote: |
As I understand it the custom footbeds most of us have are are not orthotics and aren't described as such. Orthotics are produced from an unweighted foot, custom footbeds are produced weighted.
Custom footbeds are not intended to correct any foot structure problems, they are only intended to provide support for the existing form of the foot. Orthotics on the other hand are used to re-shape the foot to correct abnormalities, obviously orthotocs cannot be made from a weighted foot as they would just reinforce the problem rather than cure it. |
Glad you said it. This is so true. Here ends the weighted over, unweighted casting theories.
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, umm, yeah, I was wondering why the great "weighted v unweighted" casting theory discussion.
A bit of a red-herring if you ask me.
To my mind, ski-boot footbeds shouldn't be used except in ski-boots.
In skiing the foot needs to be held in a relatively static position throughout the natural skiing movement. And good position is, to a large extent, assisted/adjusted by way of the footbed (which helps re-adjust natural musculo-skeletal lower-limb mis-alignments that 99% of the population has) and thereby ensuring that the body is able to hold a better form for longer on planks before pain kicks in and diminishes the skiing experience.
However in normal shoes, expecially running shoes, the foot needs to flex and move any-which number of ways, which the rigidity of a ski-boot footbed just wouldn't allow for. So logically, ski-boot footbeds are counter-productive in any other shoe that's not a ski-boot?
Or am I being thick?
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| Manda wrote: |
SMALLZOOKEEPER, umm, yeah, I was wondering why the great "weighted v unweighted" casting theory discussion.
A bit of a red-herring if you ask me.
To my mind, ski-boot footbeds shouldn't be used except in ski-boots.
In skiing the foot needs to be held in a relatively static position throughout the natural skiing movement. And good position is, to a large extent, assisted/adjusted by way of the footbed (which helps re-adjust natural musculo-skeletal lower-limb mis-alignments that 99% of the population has) and thereby ensuring that the body is able to hold a better form for longer on planks before pain kicks in and diminishes the skiing experience.
However in normal shoes, expecially running shoes, the foot needs to flex and move any-which number of ways, which the rigidity of a ski-boot footbed just wouldn't allow for. So logically, ski-boot footbeds are counter-productive in any other shoe that's not a ski-boot?
Or am I being thick? |
No, in my opinion 100% right. The footbed debate, in my circles, will run and run. Your, knowledge/perception of what is a ski orthotic, for me has never been better explained. The problem is the footbed technician, he who knows not, will only make you an orthotic that can be used in either or any kind of footwear. this too is good, however offers value rather than the right amount of support. It is so hard to find the balence for us chaps, we have to understand your needs, your perceptions of comfort and the needs of your feet, there is a huge amount of margin for error. This eventually comes back to nothing other than, my understanding of you and my hand-eye co-ordination when i fabricate the orthotic.
Please stop by the Zoo this winter. If you can before the madness starts(Xmas) i'll build you something special and the best price i can( That's a gift, to you and me.)
It's not very often i hear of people who have a grip on this. I look forward to boring you to death with foot chatter.
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