 Poster: A snowHead
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I am thinking of getting either Salomon Equipe 3V or Rossi 9S Oversize. Which would you reccomend and why?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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either  about the best ski Salomon currently make and the Rossi is excellent as well, the Rossi may be slightly better all-mountain. You ought to test them and see, Dynastar omecarve's are worth a look as well in that segment.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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ise, rob@rar.org.uk,
Thanks. I have tested them both in the past - a couple of seasons ago but not at the same time so can't really remember how they compared, and they may have changed since them.
In an ideal world I would test them - but unfortunately the deal I have only runs until December and I won't have a chance before then. I am female, about 5'7 and 8.5 stone, not that aggressive a skier but that is something I am working on! What length would you reccomend? I ski the Crossmax 10 at 170cms and the old Rossi 9X 177cms.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I used to have the old 3Vs from around 2000/01. They were good. The newer ones weren't so hot, mainly trading on the reputation of the old ones. From what I've heard, the 9S is a great ski.
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beanie1, I use a 9S (170), used to have a crossmax 10 (170) the rossi's are a much better ski in MO. I use them as an all mountain ski, they pretty much cope with anything, a good all round ski. You could probably use a shorter ski than me, as although I am only a little taller 5'8 I am 16.5 stone(big boned Haha) aand have no problems with the skis unlike the crossmax which were a little softer.
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No recent personal experience on the 9S-O but my vote, as usual, is with the Rossis. I'm 5'6, 9st10lbs and very aggressive (skiing that is, a complete pussycat otherwise) and I use the 9X (the detuned giant slalom model) in a 160cm. I would expect that my ski consultant would advise you to go for something like 150cm in the 9S.
Snow and Rock's website will advise you similarly.
As it happens, a comment on length; I skied the prior 9X in a 167 and tested 174 and 180-ish. The only difference as the skis went shorter was that they became easier to ski. No degradation of performance, stability or control. The most important factor is your weight, and beanie1, you don't weigh a great deal.
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I tried the 9s in 164, I think, great ski. I don't know about the 3V. I tried the Elan SX last year and that was rated better than the Rossi. I can't remenber a direct comparrison but the 9s was great fun on hardpack where I had the SX in fesh snow....I know, I know....!!!!!!
If I wanted a fun slalom type ski I would look at the 9s.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I've been threatening myself to start going to the Lions Club at Leeds on a regular basis. If and when I do, I'd be looking at a pair of either, and have been keeping an eye on ebay.
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marc gledhill,
That's my excuse for getting them! Don't think they'd be versatile enough so am also planning to get the new Rossi Z9... My boyfriend won't be pleased, he doesn't understand the need for 2 sets of skis, or any new skis come to think of it!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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beanie1, this is a bloke, not understanding that more kit is needed! 
Sorry, I don't understand.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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marc gledhill,
He understands the need for a new car and a £200 Jacob Jensen phone... (which i most certainly did NOT understand)!
But he's only skied a couple of times and just says "what's wrong with your old skis, you only use them a few weeks per year"!!!!
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beanie1, let us know how they compare to the other skis you've been mentioning when you demo them.
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You know it makes sense.
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Wear The Fox Hat,
Unfortunately I've got to buy them before December to get the cheap deal so I won't get to test them! I've spoken to a lot of people who have tested them, and a few who know the way I ski and I think I've settled on the Rossi Z9 for everyday versatile use, and the 3V to help me with my short radius turn training and to use when I get along to Lions.
The general consensus has been that the 9S is the better ski, but bearing in mind I am female and pretty light the 3V will be better for me. I've tested them both in the past and certainly found the 9S much harder to work. Maybe if I was skiing all season it would be different but my legs just aren't strong enough at the moment!
Bit of a risk buying without testing, but if I don't like them I'm sure I'll be able to find someone who will!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I'm not exactly the same size (5' 11" & 13+ stone) or with the same skill level (I suspect her technique will be way in front of me) but am looking for similar skis for the same reasons, a bit of race training in Cas snowdome.
Would these "race" ski's be too much for a clutz like me in 165's and should I just look at decent piste skis?
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Poster: A snowHead
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My view - they wouldn't be such a comfortable ride as a normal pair of piste skis but would be much more rewarding when you get it right. The fact you're looking at race training suggests to me that you are quite serious about improving your technique so something that takes you out of the comfort zone a bit would probably be a good thing.
On the other hand, if you're looking for a ski you can use in a wide variety of conditions (eg off-piste) they probably aren't the answer.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Arno, thanks for that, I already have a pair of B2's for "wide variety of conditions" usage, but I was worried they'd be a bit lacking for training on harder snow.
That's not to say I wouldn't take the race models on ski trips too 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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beanie1, We have a few folk at the local race club with 3Vs - seem to work well. Don't see so many Rossi's about - mostly Head and Fischer at the races. Which one hurts your pocket least ? 
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ski,
I decided to go for the 3V. Price wise they are both pretty much the same - Salomon about £15 more.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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marc gledhill,
As Arno says a proper slalom type ski will be great fun when you get it right and will bite back when you don't. How bad it bites probably depends on how 'good' you are. I don't want to imply these are for experts only as I think they make a better and less demanding ski now anyway so they are more likely to be forgiving. Yesteryear the skis were not so forgiving, or thats my view, but maybe we just ski better now and can cope with 'race' oriented skis. None of us could probably ski a true race ski anymore than we could drive an F1 car so these will probably be useable for anyone who can carve a good turn on a red run at a decent lick. This is, of course, where the fun comes in as you will have a completeley different view on edge hold and grip, compared with a B2, for example.
If you are fit and keen and have skied 10 weeks or so, these could change your skiing. They will/should do what you want them to do so the mistakes will be yours so the less mistakes the better. Just don't expect to be lazy on them, there are better/more appropriate skis for that.
Oh, and try before you buy, get them out on hire in the resort on hardpack. I am not sure what can really be determined from dry or MK type skiing so I wouldn't bother here too much. I certainly wouldn't take brand new skis out onto a dry mat...!! And 165 will be enough..!!
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JT, thanks for that, it's made me feel a lot more comfortable about trying a pair.
I managed to "borrow" a pair of Dynamic VR27's which are, I'm told, a very user friendly race ski. Or at least as user friendly as they can get without getting too far away from the "race" element. Although it was only in a snow dome, I started to like them a lot as skiing muscles started to remember how to ski and I learnt to trust them more. Great grip and very quick, certainly gave me a lot of confidence.
Now do I restrain myself untill I get to resort..............want shiney kit.........want shiney kit.......Aaaaaaaagggghhhhhhh!! 
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marc gledhill,
B2's and a Slalom type ski should have all your needs covered. I only want two things in a ski, off-piste and ice so my choice would be an XL and a Slalom ski, probably a 9s. For my needs the XL is as close to doing it all very well as I have found so far but if you are willing to carry two sets then I am sure you have great fun on them.
The nonsense about race type skis is that if they were truly race skis they would never sell any as most racers get them free. The have to make a dumbed-down version so we can ski them in lots of conditions although, for me, hardpack is the only place I would take them.
I don't know the VR27's but would hazard a guess that if you liked what they did then the rest of the bunch would be just as accomodating. Just ask the Ski tech in the shop which ones are good all-round slalom skis and try them. As long as you can cope with the feedback of the ski when you place it on edge, and I am sure you know what you should expect, then you will get on fine. The 'scary' race tag is surely marketing as we don't ski Race skis...!! I once saw Marc Giradelli...at the '92 Olympics DH.. and his thighs were the size of most people's waist....massive...!!! Ditto the other races there as well....
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| JT wrote: |
The nonsense about race type skis is that if they were truly race skis they would never sell any as most racers get them free. The have to make a dumbed-down version so we can ski them in lots of conditions although, for me, hardpack is the only place I would take them.
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That's not really true, most racing is at club level and it's a pretty big market place.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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My Z9s have arrived!! So excited! Will definitely be trying them out at Lions on Monday night! Wasn't there (again) this week as I have the lurgy and couldn't face the drive there and back...
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beanie1, Let me know how much you want for the 3Vs after you've tried the Z9s ? 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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WHO MENTIONED 3V/9S IN THE SAME BREATH AS ALL-MOUNTAIN, SURELY YOU'RE MISSING THE POINT! 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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SMALLZOOKEEPER,
You need to read the whole thread. 
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JT,
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None of us could probably ski a true race ski anymore
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Au contraire my dear chap, I rather think I could. Well, I could in January anyway...
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You know it makes sense.
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| JT wrote: |
The nonsense about race type skis is that if they were truly race skis they would never sell any as most racers get them free. |
I can say that most racers do not get them free. Most of our home nation teams even have to buy theirs.
A true race ski (ie from the race department - not just saying "world cup" or some such rubbish) is a beast to ski all day on the hill, that I will agree with. Its a tool to do one job well, nothing more or less.
A lot of you basi types probably get the relatively soft salomon 21m race legal GS ski. That is a very good cruiser, but to demo the case in point it is a pain to get it to do anything other than long carved turns.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| beanie1 wrote: |
| My Z9s have arrived!! So excited! Will definitely be trying them out at Lions on Monday night! Wasn't there (again) this week as I have the lurgy and couldn't face the drive there and back... |
MORE new skis!!!!
I have to confess I have my new Volkl Race Tiger Slalom skis, which are awesome. I have bene conned though, no ALu motion rail, extended double grip or atomic beta profile like top sheet.
It is almost as if the race ski is (shock horror), nothing like the shop ski!!!!
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Poster: A snowHead
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FIS regulation skis are available from most manufactures and are exactly the same as used in the world cup, they are accessable and ski well, on hard snow! The only skis we cant buy are downhills, as each ski is made for each skier.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| FIS regulation skis are available from most manufactures and are exactly the same as used in the world cup, they are accessable and ski well, on hard snow! The only skis we cant buy are downhills, as each ski is made for each skier. |
fis refulation i agree with. same as the world cup, NO!
World cup skis are custom made, with flex patterns etc for each person. The race department skis are as you say accessable, but not custom made.
You can buy the downhill skis if you want, just make sure the importer is half competent (most aren't). You can also go see snow&Fun in Sallbach who have a rack of them available after the RAF made them buy them in so large numbers of non team members could race at their downhill event. I needed to find 10 pairs of super g/downhill skis last year, so phoned up and drove down the road to the blizzard factory.
Most of the trade catalogues also list downhill (and super g) skis right below the slalom and GS skis. In the fischer catalogue it is at the very top of the page, volkl is about 4 pages later (mixed in with the bindings and boots).
Race clubs, and racers can all get hold of speed displine skis if they want them. Like I alluded to before the instructors get offered them in things like the basi deals, as you might actually want them for the speed test or test technique. You won't be doing a downhill, so there is no point basi getting a deal together for any.
The daft thing is, BASI instructors can get factory skis at reasonable prices, whilst junior racers in the uk struggle to get anything.................hey i see an underground market here, basi members to take a cut on selling on race skis to racers who can't get them.
Skiing around all day every day on race kit is a criminal waste of kit, and also effort on behalf of the skier.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| paulhothersall wrote: |
| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| FIS regulation skis are available from most manufactures and are exactly the same as used in the world cup, they are accessable and ski well, on hard snow! The only skis we cant buy are downhills, as each ski is made for each skier. |
fis refulation i agree with. same as the world cup, NO!
World cup skis are custom made, with flex patterns etc for each person. The race department skis are as you say accessable, but not custom made.
You can buy the downhill skis if you want, just make sure the importer is half competent (most aren't). You can also go see snow&Fun in Sallbach who have a rack of them available after the RAF made them buy them in so large numbers of non team members could race at their downhill event. I needed to find 10 pairs of super g/downhill skis last year, so phoned up and drove down the road to the blizzard factory.
Most of the trade catalogues also list downhill (and super g) skis right below the slalom and GS skis. In the fischer catalogue it is at the very top of the page, volkl is about 4 pages later (mixed in with the bindings and boots).
Race clubs, and racers can all get hold of speed displine skis if they want them. Like I alluded to before the instructors get offered them in things like the basi deals, as you might actually want them for the speed test or test technique. You won't be doing a downhill, so there is no point basi getting a deal together for any.
The daft thing is, BASI instructors can get factory skis at reasonable prices, whilst junior racers in the uk struggle to get anything.................hey i see an underground market here, basi members to take a cut on selling on race skis to racers who can't get them.
Skiing around all day every day on race kit is a criminal waste of kit, and also effort on behalf of the skier. |
Sorry, only the downhill skis are made for the skiers.
The rest of the FIS Factory stuff is available to all of us. You'll just have to find a shop prepared to order them and place you order early.
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| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
Sorry, only the downhill skis are made for the skiers.
The rest of the FIS Factory stuff is available to all of us. You'll just have to find a shop prepared to order them and place you order early. |
Order in May, arrive September... Very used to that process. Personally I am fine getting the skis i need, and that i am capable of skiing on. I will frequently get shop skis, purely as they are nicer to ski on for the rest of the time when not running gates.
Higher level slalom and GS race skis, including all atomic race skis have varing flex patterns. If you are good enough, the factory gets the racer a better class of ski, or more specifically on a better flex tuned ski to them.
I have seen the flex pattern books with the race depratment techs, and know racers who go up the ladder and start geting the better skis.
I will accept that at slalom level the customisation is mainly to do with stiffness, apart from some world cp research skis. GS race skis with often have different radius skis accross their race range, anything from 21m upto 28m radius!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I don't see your point here Paul. Where are you in the FIS/WC equasion, do you think changing you ski will change you times that much? If so, you've surely paid a visit and had your downhill boards weighed up. Downhill skis are the only ski made for the skier. Leg length, Tibia-Patella, weight, flex resistance in boot. All combined with wood density and knot pattern. No two skis at this level will ever ski the same, after that snow conditions play a massive part in 1st choice. The rest, Salom, G.S. you CAN BUY though the factory, they will be pleased to sell them to you.
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| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| I don't see your point here Paul. Where are you in the FIS/WC equasion, do you think changing you ski will change you times that much? If so, you've surely paid a visit and had your downhill boards weighed up. Downhill skis are the only ski made for the skier. Leg length, Tibia-Patella, weight, flex resistance in boot. All combined with wood density and knot pattern. No two skis at this level will ever ski the same, after that snow conditions play a massive part in 1st choice. The rest, Salom, G.S. you CAN BUY though the factory, they will be pleased to sell them to you. |
I think we are mis understanding each other here.
The point was that i know there are various different sl & gs ski at ski instructor level / higher level racer / world cup. This might be a generation behind for each level, but still a difference. I also know many people who for various reasons get their "stock flex" downhill skis. Hence i rose to the bait about 5 posts back. I think on this we can agreee to disagree on this.
I am a sometime "out of retirement" dry slope racer, with a bit of experaince of snow racing. I am nowhere in the racing scene, but do get a very noticable benefit in slalom (my one and only disipline) with a "good" ski. Being rather overweight post university Personally I think i can ski gs faster on shop skis, but there you go.
I know just how much dynastar charge for their factory skis to non sponsored racers. I love dynastar skis, and raced on them for ages, but with volkl race department skis at 1/3rd price it makes a decision a no brainer.
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Rising to the bait, my girlfriend tells me, means you want to arguee about something? I don't want to arguee here. I am simply pointing out, salom and g.s. skis are not custom made, each one is different because they can't use the fabrics twice! Theyonly make downhill to measure.
This is not to argue with anybody, i'm simply relaying what happens, Sorry Paul.
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| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
Rising to the bait, my girlfriend tells me, means you want to arguee about something? I don't want to arguee here. I am simply pointing out, salom and g.s. skis are not custom made, each one is different because they can't use the fabrics twice! Theyonly make downhill to measure.
This is not to argue with anybody, i'm simply relaying what happens, Sorry Paul. |
understand now. of course they do then flex match/profile them etc. (sl and gs skis) post manufacture, which is where i was coming from. Volkl have seperate order codes for different flex skis even in sl, and i believe salomon do in gs
atomic confuse with multiple gs race dept skis with both sandwich and beta models! cue even some pictures of atomic world cup slalom skis with flat topped skis.
I'm still puzzled as to dynastars race sl skis with some having white bases and some having black.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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READ ROSSINGNOL. THE FACTORIES CHOP AND CHANGE, BASED ON MATERIALS
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| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| READ ROSSINGNOL. THE FACTORIES CHOP AND CHANGE, BASED ON MATERIALS |
read Quicksilver, incorporated now i suppose.
I have heard rumours of a new prototype "gold" base that isospeed are making for top level skis this coming year. Have any of the french kids got this on their pre-season skis?
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FAQ
