 Poster: A snowHead
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Interesting to see that with all the new L1 courses over the last few years that Alpine membership appears to have fallen..
I would guess that loads are not renewing their memberships and quite telling is that L2 and L4 numbers are down..
Apr-12........Aug-10
709.............574 Alpine Level 1
?.................5 SSS/BASI Alpine Level 1
?.................13 Alpine UK Advanced Instructor
1660............2066 Alpine Level 2
?..................95 Alpine Ski Teacher
202...............145 Alpine Level 3 ISIA
?...................65 Alpine National Ski Teacher
285...............298 Level 4 ISTD?
2856.............3261
EDIT : basi office will be publishing stats soon and this could be an anomaly as the figures were compared at different times of the year. The membership fluctuates quite a bit.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Thu 16-08-12 14:54; edited 3 times in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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skimottaret, looks like a 12% drop in under 2 years. Overall UK ski market has dropped 27% in last 5 years. So, I'm not surprised.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Overall drop in L4s - more people retiring than getting up the ladder. Not a sign of a healthy system although maybe population not large enough to draw significance from. Looks quite a lot like L2 is the realistically attainable level for lots of people then high attrition (& gappies then probably don't bother paying the subs after a couple of years in the real world).
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| fatbob wrote: |
| gappies then probably don't bother paying the subs after a couple of years in the real world. |
Fewer gappies overall last winter, people wanted to avoid the increase in tuition fees.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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CSIA Membership up 19%, any coincidense?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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1969jma, interesting... over what time period?
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skimottaret, Should see more BASI 3 from CSIA when they rea  lise
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skimottaret, i was told 3 seasons and masny more europeans, not necessary British tho
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Cynic, possibly, depends where they want to instruct, i'm not sure of benefits, insurance professional deals etc
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| Cynic wrote: |
| skimottaret, Should see more BASI 3 from CSIA when they rea lise |
More likely more pressure on CSIA to add a fairly trivial mountain safety module - given that most serious pros take Avy 1 or similar not a great barrier. It can't be escaping their radar that European an Antipodean candidates are a rising proportion of the base of their pyramid and might have more of an interest in portability.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Cynic wrote: |
| skimottaret, Should see more BASI 3 from CSIA when they rea lise |
Interesting point. I'm currently with CSIA and planning to move across to BASI as I start to take my instructing more serioiusly. CSIA have added the mountain safety modules to regain ISIA equivalence, but they still seem disinterested in getting the modules in place to get people up to ISTD. Whilst it's quite unlikely I'll ever hit that level, it's still an option I'd like to have available. (Also didn't help that my last contact with CSIA managed to find, to my knowledge, the only rude Canadian ever born).
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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skisimon, ISTD is a minefield , the pyramid of ISIA card (L4) and stamp )L3) isnt very well recognised except switzerland and southern hemisphere, in Europe the Eurotest will be the defining standard
fatbob, I wouldnt say the L3 Mountain safety course is trivial by any stretch, the L4 is tough and is a requirement for any ISTD in any European system ...
Cynic, i am a big fan of the CSIA CSCF but they have a much different market and way of training / examining than BASI not sure there will be that much cross over.
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| I wouldnt say the L3 Mountain safety course is trivial by any stretch |
Me neither, a tough week physically and mentally.
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You know it makes sense.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Me neither, a tough week physically and mentally. |
I just meant in the scheme of things it's probably not the definitive pass/fail module for a fit and mentally applied person, particularly if they've already done a fair amount of off piste work in varying conditions. I'd have guessed that far more people fail on tech or teach, although I'm not the guy who went through it so I respect both of your views.
My core point is that anyway on the BASI side expecting a flood of disillusioned CSIA system members is deluding themselves. I'd expect CSIA to add the extra modules for compliance if there is enough demand, even if they are of no practical application for teaching in the Canadian mkt.
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Thu 26-07-12 13:38; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
I'd expect CSIA to add the extra modules for compliance if there is enough demand, even if they are of no practical application for teaching in the Canadian .
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agreed, and from what i hear that is precisely what they are doing as a "bolt on" so their L3 members can obtain ISIA status should they so desire, a sensible way forward for their members who wish to work outside Canada where there is a need for the qualification..
there was some talk about BASI offering courses to the PSIA to get their top cert members the ISIA stamp but not sure anything came of it, I wouldnt say BASI is looking to mop up any CSIA people but they do get a fair share of foreigners on courses.. (on my last course i had two full cert Italian Maestros who took the course for CPD to get a better understanding of the BASI way of teaching)
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Poster: A snowHead
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Interesting thought
BASI a British Qualification, a method of teaching, however doesn't produce World Class skiers.
Whilst I have a Canadian qualification I disagreed with this persons statement. I argued in England we haven't mountains on our doorstep and therefore skiing isnt in the PE curriculum like the French, Austrians and Canadians.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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1969jmaAgree the teaching system is largely irrelevant to developing World class skiers. Proximity to snow, a large club structure and high levels of domestic competition and/or really high standards of locals/parent role models make the difference.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I had no idea there was such a debate raging on these forums about the different certifying bodies... quite entertaining!
I can't say I've met too many ski school directors in Canada who give much preference to one system over another when hiring. My teaching experience in Europe is pretty limited but I have never heard of there being any difficulty getting jobs over there with North American certs. I'm curious if anyone on here has had a different experience?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
I have never heard of there being any difficulty getting jobs over there with North American certs.
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They wouldn't be able to work in France, or very freely in Italy.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| beanie1 wrote: |
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I have never heard of there being any difficulty getting jobs over there with North American certs.
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They wouldn't be able to work in France, or very freely in Italy. |
In all fairness that also applies to the majority of Instructors qualified through European systems. Taking the BASI membership split above, 90% of BASI members are going to have difficulty in those regions.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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AndAnotherThing.., the difference is that BASI (for their faults) have worked to put into place a system whereby you can achieve the appropriate level of qualification to do so - how difficult it is to achieve (and how many people are interested in achieving it) is another matter entirely. Arguably, I could quite contentedly carry on with CSIA; perhaps, if I work hard, I could get my ISIA stamp and have a happy career teaching in Austria or Switzerland if I so desired (wouldn't really even need to get the stamp). The problem for me is that I love Italy and French is my best second language (and France is a big English speaking market). Crunch time for me will come in a couple of years, when I'll decide if my business is in a position to run itself, and I can justify teaching full-time through the winter (rather than just peak weeks).
Apologies for the life-story - just using myself as a case study of why CSIA qualified instructors may be looking to shift across. Equally, there will be just as many, if not more, CSIA certs wanting to work in Europe who will be looking to work in Austria, Switzerland, Andorra... so would see no benefit in making the change. Of course, in a sense this is all moot anyway, I (or whoever) will still have to get up to ISTD standard to make switching worthwhile - otherwise what's the point? So I suspect, for that reason, there will be very few who do make the switch, due to the cost of essentially re-qualifying at L3 just to get the chance to (probably) fail ISTD modules/Eurotest.
(Right, I'll try and step back now, as I've just realised that I've ably assisted in this thread drifting from BASI membership numbers to the limitations of the CSIA framework for their very few members who may with to work full-time in France or Italy).
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Should mean less "geeky freeky never gonna be ski instructors" clogging up tills asking for discount in ski shops
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another stat of interest is that in the latest BASI news they said the total membership was around 5,500 which I also believe is down from over 6k a few years ago.
I am surprised that Alpine is only roughly half the active membership, I would have thought it much higher percentage. Are there really 2700 snowboard, adaptive, tele etc...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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skisimon, I'd imagine that the main benefit of converting to a European body is professional liability insurance & ease of revalidation.
I did flirt with going the CSIA route until the ISIA was pulled but would still would like to do a course or two as CPD.
skimottaret, I wonder if there is a cross over for the second disciplines ?
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Associate members too? My daughter fits in that category atm, paid to become a member so she can do her L1, will have to upgrade when she gets it.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| I am surprised that Alpine is only roughly half the active membership, I would have thought it much higher percentage. Are there really 2700 snowboard, adaptive, tele etc... |
Depends on how the numbers are arrived at.
eg.
I am an ski instrcutor, race coach and adaptive instrcutor - not sure if I'm 3 peole or just 1.
I assume that only the highest L will be counted so as I'm an L2 race coach this would be just 1 (so my L1 coach wouldn't be counted or I would be 2). But I honestly don't know as even if just the highest L was counted maybe I would be 3 people.
Someone at BASI would be able to tell you.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Colin B wrote: |
| Associate members too? My daughter fits in that category atm, paid to become a member so she can do her L1, will have to upgrade when she gets it. |
I think, even once you've completed a Level 1 qualification, you are still considered an Associate Member, it's cheaper and you don't get a vote... Can somebody confirm/correct this for me???
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The email she got from BASI stated
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Please note that you will NOT have a Membership Number until you have a qualification, i.e. only when you have completed all elements towards the qualification and paid the £20 to upgrade from Associate to Full member. |
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You know it makes sense.
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so sounds like only full members have a vote and each individual has a member number you dont have a number for each discipline.
still seems odd that alpine is around half the membership, I will check further
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The BASI Membership Stats are best reported at the end of September each year which is when renewals are due. This means we get a snap shot of the Membership status at the end of the membership year as opposed to the financial year (Spring time) or any other month in the year as the membership numbers fluctuate considerably depending on how and when Members renew. So to get a comparable annual Membership status figure the best date to this is actually on the 30th September every year as subs for the new year fall due on the following day.
The member numbers will be published in the next BASI News (October).
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Poster: A snowHead
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beanie1, I had a look at the numbers in the annual report as you suggested and they still dont make sense...
total membership shown @ 30 Sept of about 6,200 then the composition by discipline chart shows about 2,800 alpine, 600 snowboard and maybe 400 other...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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skimottaret,
The discrepancy is explained by the notes at the bottom of the Bar chart.
Total Number of every category of Member this year finished at 6,128 members - this figure includes those that are excluded from the Licensed Membership Composition Bar Chart.
The note underneath the BASI Licensed Membership Composition bar chart explains who is not counted in the licensed chart. Associate members do not hold a full licence to teach until they have completed all requirements for Level1, Non licenced members – these are Members who do not have an up to date refresher, disclosure of first aid certificate – they are still Members and pay their subs but no longer actively teach so do not require a licence but receive a Membership card.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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beanie1, thanks I couldnt make out the notes.. seems a lot of associate and others though..
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FAQ
