Was looking for info on what equipment to buy when I stumbled across this video for Mammut's RescYou device.
It looks nifty and seems to save you from having to set up a multi-point haul system (and the footage of the skier falling into the crevasse is certainly impressive ) but there's no info on Mammut's site about it.
Anyone in the know rate this bit of kit or should I stick to the standard setup?
I was pondering crevasse rescue hardware recently... I ended up running into a bunch of blog and forum posts from people who'd gone back to plain old screwgates'n'prussiks from pulley based hauling setups. The simple approach is lighter and more flexible and substantially cheaper, by way of a bonus. If I were going to invest in expensive jingly hardware, I'd be more inclined to get an icescrew or two.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Zero-G, yep have been looking at this too, Serriadh, is quite right you need a couple of really good ice screws as well, and rope of course
I got the 40m length so I can double it up for short pitches of proper climbing/scrambling.
The RescYou looks cool but is obviously not multifunctional. Depends on what you plan on doing after you've crossed the glaciers as to where the weight saving is.
Sorry (from initial impressions) don't like this one. It's a one trick pony - and not the lightest thing in the world. As Jbob pointed out the Petzl kit is a good starting point.
But I'd much rather a ski partner with 2 bits of string, a carabiner or two and lots of practice, than any fancy bit of kit an a partner who's never used one before.
I was lucky enough to do a fair amount of climbing and mountaineering before becoming a ski bum.
But I'd never practised crevasse rescue before having to perform one for real.
I've ended up doing 4 real crevasse rescues over the years before I had any official training.
I'd not recommend doing things that way, it's a bit tough on the nerves.
If you are going to be skiing in glaciated terrain - PRACTICE with you equipment
When practising hauling try and do it with the victim/weight hanging in free space, not just dragging them across the lawn (unless you are pulling a car up a gentle slope)
Practice with your gloves on.
If possible practice in snow when it's windy
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Luckily I have never had to rescue anyone from a crevase...
would agree with Idris though that light weight is best.
basically harness, 2 x prusik loops, 1 x ice screw, 2 x caribiner per skier and perhaps some slings is the minimum you require.
you see people skiing about like 'christmas' trees with lots of kit hanging off their harness. but for simple glacier skiing much of it is over kill that can be replaced with simpler and cheaper kit (plus practise... which is something I should do more of!). in the majority of scenarios the victim will climb out of the hole on a rope themselves. pulley systems really are 'worst case' with a victim who is unable to climb.
2 x 30m rope is better than one longer 40-50m rope (i.e can then ski with one rope at front of the group and one at the back)
After all it is free
After all it is free
know what an abolacov thread is!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
I already have a prusik/crab/sling/ice screw setup but got to thinking about instances where a mechanical device is better for ascent (wet or frozen rope). Plus, I'm a small woman, so anything to help when hauling the weight of someone else. There's a reason that a block and tackle works...
But, reading the responses, this is the most salient point
Idris wrote:
It's a one trick pony...
So, I'll stick with what I've got.
CEM wrote:
know what an abolacov thread is!
I do now, thanks!
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Way back in 1983 I spent a year doing an exchange with the Italian Alpinni Regiment mostly teaching glacier travel and crevasse rescue. Back then we used prussics and a Garda hitch, this way produced a lot of friction. These days I carry a Wild Country "Ropeman 2", a couple of DMM revolver crabiners, a sling and a couple of ice screws.
If your skiing as most of us normally do un-roped the fall will likely kill you or smash you up. If you survive that you may end up wedged in a tight crack, having a short length of rope from your harness with a loop tied in the end and tucked under your rucksack strap will help your rescuers no end.
Should point out that your far less likely to go through a snow bridge with skis on and moving than you are on foot and plodding.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
I know nothing about crevasse rescue (bloody terrified of them so generally avoid going offpiste on glaciated terrain), but assuming you're using similar mechanical advantage systems (z-drag, etc) to what I would use to recover a pinned kayak (on a tree in whitewater, for instance), it could be worth adding a swing-cheek pully or two to your setup, will make the system much more efficient than running the rope through a crab. Cheap and light too.
Apologies if I have the wrong end of the stick...
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Off the back of OwenM's post, I've been looking at the Ropeman - there's a v3 out that can be used on both rope and slings. In what circumstances would someone be ascending a sling?
Also, surely you would need two, one for a foot and one for the harness?
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I've no idea why you'd want to use one on a sling, also the 3 is for rope 10-11mm thick, I think. The ropeman 2 works on rope down to 8mm, it can be used as a progressive capture device i.e. when you take rope in it wont let it back out when you take the tension off the rope, makes the Z system more efficient. As for pulleys the DMM revolver crabiner have one built into it's frame, so one thing less to drop.
If your going to prussic up the rope then two would be better but their expensive so one and a prussic loop will do.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Those revolver carabiners look useful. What's the down side (if any)?
I want to avoid the Chamonix tool belt look but still want something that is reliable on wet/icy rope, so will head down to EB to fondle a Ropeman.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Quote:
Those revolver carabiners look useful. What's the down side (if any)?
It isn't quite as good as a pulley but is much better than just using a karabiner from the point of view of taking friction out of the system. I'd consider the Petzl mini traxion alongside the ropeman as well. I'd also have a look at the below, which shows a couple of useful haul systems. I've found it quite useful.
If you are lacking in the upper body strength deparment, you may want to consider looking at adding more gear to develop more mechanical advantage.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
That Petzl kit looks spot on.. I may have to invest. Not just for crevasse rescue but I don't really have anything for ascending any more, apart from rope, harness, carabiners and belay devices, most other kit was borrowed when I worked in the climbing shop
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Zero-G wrote:
Plus, I'm a small woman, so anything to help when hauling the weight of someone else.
sounds like you should be going first and testing the strength of the snowbridges
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
gorilla wrote:
I'd consider the Petzl mini traxion
That is a complete misnomer - those things are bloody huge!
Arno wrote:
Zero-G wrote:
Plus, I'm a small woman, so anything to help when hauling the weight of someone else.
sounds like you should be going first and testing the strength of the snowbridges
So, a crevasse poodle? Yeah, yeah, been there. Got stuck over a crevasse at the bottom of a small gully with my skis bridging the crevasse. It was an interesting situation.
Up until that day, I only owned a harness + avy kit. After that day I bought the rest of my crevasse rescue kit. Nothing like staring into the black maw of one of those beasts to galvanise you into gearing up
Seriously - from many years mountaineering, keep the kit light and simple, and know how to use it. Most importantly if your partner falls into a crevasse you must know how to remove yourself from the system.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
RobinS wrote:
...Most importantly if your partner falls into a crevasse you must know how to remove yourself from the system.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Sarge McSarge, not a situation I ever want to be in but I have thought about it... from both sides.
After all it is free
After all it is free
No-one seems to have mentioned the benefits of wearing a chest harness. Been a long time since I was last in a crevasse but I can guarantee that wearing one makes life a lot easier (especially if you've got a decent rucksac on your back)
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Don't like chest harnesses at all, I use a sit harness and tie in using kiwi coils.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
My kit is a DMM revolver, wild country ropeman and of course, ice screws, a prussik and a longish tape sling. The key is the revolver. Take a look. It makes the lever incredibly simple and frictionless.
it could be worth adding a swing-cheek pully or two to your setup, will make the system much more efficient than running the rope through a crab. Cheap and light too
+1 for this - you can lose over 50% of hauling effort due to friction using crabs.
Another excellent alternative to prussiks for ascending, or setting up a z-pulley system is the Petzl "Tibloc" : useful as a bottle opener for your beer too
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Don't forget that, if one is down the hole and roughly four or more are on the snow then simply pulling, tug-o-war style, can be effective. Take it steady though else you can cause a lot of damage to the victim!
Oh, and the bleedin' obvious: avoid glaciers in the afternoon if at all posssible.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Zero-G, spend a day with Chamonix Experience, they run Glacier Travel courses that cover all this, a great day out and you can ask questions then. Buy simple kit, removing "failures" from the system and practice every week, lifting tables up trees, ricksacks from off cliffs etc.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Thanks CH2O, I already have a simple setup (crabs, prusiks, slings, ice screw) and have done two glacier safety courses, one on land (ok, this one was just learning crevasse rescue rope setup) and one on a glacier in Chamonix with Evolution2. I'll do a refresher with them again this season because it's not second nature.
I suppose the Mammut system caught my eye because it looks really quick to set up for a rescue situation and certainly looks easier than using prusiks for ascent (but then so do all ascension devices). However, I agree with everyone else, it's a fair amount of weight to carry on top of everything else.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
altis wrote:
Don't forget that, if one is down the hole and roughly four or more are on the snow then simply pulling, tug-o-war style, can be effective. Take it steady though else you can cause a lot of damage to the victim
Another "Don't forget" - set up a ski-belay (for instance) and make yourself safe before approaching the slot : don't want two down the hole!!!
Also - if hauling, make sure to pad the edge of the crevasse to stop the rope cutting in (lay an ice axe etc flat for the rope to run over)
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
) but there's no info on Mammut's site about it.
Yeah, yeah, been there. Got stuck over a crevasse at the bottom of a small gully with my skis bridging the crevasse. It was an interesting situation.
