 Poster: A snowHead
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Browsing my German Tourist Board list of every single ski lift in Germany, picked up at a Ski Show many moons ago, I noticed that there are some 'resorts' north of Dusseldorf. Winterberg and Willingen.
Willingen hosted a world cup mountainbike event this year and claimed a big vertical. And, viamichelin.com-ing them I worked out there are even closer to London than the Vosges resorts I went to last year, 340 miles
I check the sites out for them and they are a bit hokey. tows and a very small vertical 150m.
Anyone been, I guess Brit Army folks might have used them in the past as they are south of Hannover etc.
Cheers
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I used to live north of Frankfurt about 1.5 hrs from Winterberg, I'd really not bother, pretty low, poor snow. Best known for tobaggan/luge and XC really.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Not sure I'd be quite so dismissive. Skiing is a kaleidoscope of terrain, nooks and crannies. Even the most obscure and unpromising places have their moments and eccentricities, and those occasional times when serious winter kicks in.
150m vertical is about 3 times the vertical of most snowdomes, and look how much time we're spending in those!
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| Not sure I'd be quite so dismissive. |
Oh really, well I've been and I'm guessing you've not.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You've been where, exactly?
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David Goldsmith, go away, no one's interested.
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If I was near obscure German resorts I'd ski them. SussexSnow gives an important clue: "I worked out there are even closer to London than the Vosges resorts I went to last year."
So, how do they compare to the resorts of the Vosges? Anyone know? We've had some quite enthusiastic comment on Belgian skiing, here, in the past year.
Most skiers I know enjoy skiing anything, capturing the moment and the situation. I went up Hampstead Heath with two friends about 20 years ago, skied across a frozen Whitestone Pond (highest point in London) and was yelled at by a policeman who thought I'd go through the ice and drown (in fact, I didn't - skis spread the load, and the water in that pond is 60cm deep, Officer). We then skied a worthwhile bowl with a good gradient, about 200m from the pond. Vertical? Maybe 30m.
As I say, I think the spirit of skiing is to ski anything - downhill, cross-country, uphill, in the air, down the plastic, whatever. There are locals skiing in all these places, and they ski there for good reasons.
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| If I was near obscure German resorts I'd ski them. SussexSnow gives an important clue: "I worked out there are even closer to London than the Vosges resorts I went to last year." |
There's so many clues, so very few of them going your way it seems.
| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| So, how do they compare to the resorts of the Vosges? Anyone know? We've had some quite enthusiastic comment on Belgian skiing, here, in the past year. |
If only we could find someone who'd been, who'd lived close to both areas, who'd feel happy when they posted that their personal Internet stalker wouldn't pop up and pursue some school girl-style harrasment everytime they posted.
| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| As I say, I think the spirit of skiing is to ski anything - downhill, cross-country, uphill, in the air, down the plastic, whatever. There are locals skiing in all these places, and they ski there for good reasons. |
When exactly was the last time you actually went skiing? As far as I can tell you don't actually ski. Amongst 1000's of posts consisting of amusing photographs and stuff copied from other web sites I don't recall ever seeing an actual first hand, current ski/snow report from you.
Congratulations, another topic trashed by you pursuing some school girl-like vendetta.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Oooooooooooooooooooooooh (to be said in a rising and falling, come on now girls, claws back in, sort of way)
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Key clue is the distance from London. La Bresse was the big discovery last year. Decent vert, enough lifts and chair to keep boarders happy, trees and open spaces and weekendable from London. More so than Scotland (said as a Scot)
The pics of the German resorts give some clues. Short t-bars and buttons. Looks smaller than the Vosges. Just looking for confirmation of the visual intel.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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SussexSnow, never skied north of DDorf, but I think you would probably have to be lucky to get any snow worth mentioning for more than a few days a year up there. I have skied in the Black Forest on the Feldberg and Schauinsland, but only because I spent part of my childhood in Freiburg. The Feldberg is worth doing if you happen to be in the area, and its surprisingly snow sure. The valley run from the Schauinsland was also worth doing if you got it on a good day. It's completely un-pisted and un-official and can, if you are lucky, be about five Km of powder. But only if you are lucky. I guess in these days of global warming that's becoming increasingly unlikely.
I never got round to skiing in the Vosges when I lived there. What was your experience there like?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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SussexSnow, I had a look in GoSki (which is pretty comprehensive and well worth a look for reviews of most obscure places) but it focuses on Bavarian resorts. Haven't got round to checking ifyouski.com yet.
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For the benefit of those who are prepared to be fair-minded, I last skied in May in Switzerland. I first skied in 1959 and have skied in about 105 places in Sweden, Scotland, England, Austria, France, Germany, Switzerland, Italy, western and north-western USA, eastern USA, Japan and Australia.
I haven't skied in northern Germany, and simply choose not to dismiss anywhere to ski - least of all the places that people tend to turn their noses up at. That's just a personal philosophy on the sport. Sorry.
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| SussexSnow wrote: |
Key clue is the distance from London. La Bresse was the big discovery last year. Decent vert, enough lifts and chair to keep boarders happy, trees and open spaces and weekendable from London. More so than Scotland (said as a Scot)
The pics of the German resorts give some clues. Short t-bars and buttons. Looks smaller than the Vosges. Just looking for confirmation of the visual intel. |
Intel' seems in short supply.
You're quite right, as I said above, the snow records pretty poor as well, it certainly gets cold up there though. There's some more slopes in the Harz "mountains" as well, they're about the same. For that matter, there's some down in Black Forest near Freiburg which I've not been to although I know Davidof has.
The Voseges are much better, both in terms of lift infrastructure and snow reliability although they're a long way from guaranteed snow  There's a fair amount in the Jura but it's not massively closer than the Alpes really.
How about the Massif Central? Le Lioran I reckon is excellent and Besse is pretty good.
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You know it makes sense.
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I'm sold on the Vosges. Blackforest is an ALT for it if ever the Vosges doesn't have snow. Thr 5km run sounds fun.
Massif Central is further than the Northern Alps in driving time. It's got glowing reports on pistehors.com so at somepoint it should be done.
For someone doon south The Vosges is a serious alternative to Scotland and, more realistically, the Alps. It's all very French. We stayed in la bresse and had problems dining out of the hotel. Not that many restuarants - everyone dines in their acocmodation or hotel.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
For the benefit of those who are prepared to be fair-minded |
Was it fair to be so typically superior and lecture us on not dismissing stations I'd been to and you've not?
The whole point of post was the contiunuation of some petty feud you're waging that's getting incredibly tedious.
Glad you enjoyed your couple of days on a couple of runs in June in Zermatt though.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Yes, I think it's fair to encourage fellow skiers not to dismiss small ski areas - on a general level - as a general rule. That is all I was doing. It clearly offended you, which I regret.
There are surprises in most ski places, even the smallest. I've had some truly memorable days in pint-sized ski areas (Hillend artificial slope, Edinburgh (now 'Mildlothian'), with the smell of bracken on a crispy autumn morning. A spectacular day on Glencoe. The 500m Tokyo Ski Dome. Snoqualmie in Washington State. The freshly-laid bump field and half-pipe at Sheffield Ski Village etc. etc. etc.)
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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David Goldsmith,
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half-pipe at Sheffield Ski Village
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You're into the half- pipe, great, what tricks are your favourite for big air? 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I'm generally best at small air
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| SussexSnow wrote: |
I'm sold on the Vosges. Blackforest is an ALT for it if ever the Vosges doesn't have snow. Thr 5km run sounds fun.
Massif Central is further than the Northern Alps in driving time. It's got glowing reports on pistehors.com so at somepoint it should be done.
For someone doon south The Vosges is a serious alternative to Scotland and, more realistically, the Alps. It's all very French. We stayed in la bresse and had problems dining out of the hotel. Not that many restuarants - everyone dines in their acocmodation or hotel. |
Is it so far to Massif Central? I used to live down that way and used to get there and back from "up north" pretty quickly. My memory was 4 or 5 hours from Calais to where I lived but autoroute is saying more like 7 so my memory may be failing
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
My memory was 4 or 5 hours from Calais to where I lived but autoroute is saying more like 7 so my memory may be failing
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I happens when you get older 
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Winterberg and Willingen been there quite a few times. We have plentyl of coaches going over there at weekends from Holland.
Its a common weekend destination for the Dutch & North Germans. Dont expect the Alps but theres a Good party atmosphere at the weekend
Do a search on Sauerland
Heres a good site (In German)
http://www.wintersport-arena.de/
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Went to the Harz at Easter a few years back. The towns and villages looked smashing in their winter coats, and there were lots of ski tracks through the woods, and some people were going by steam train up the Brocken to ski down again. I would imagine the XC possibilities are quite extensive, if thats what floats your boat.
If you like German rural stuff its a fun place - they were quite pleased to see us and we had a great time, just after the wall had come down. Not your average package tour, but well worth another visit - I've wanted to go back ever since but never quite got around to it. I would be disappointed if the whole place didn't stink of braunkohl any more, though.
I do recall this place seemed to be the natural home of the flourescent one-piece, if you needed further incentive to visit.
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David Goldsmith has given more useful advice that anyone else on this site, all that Ise bloke seems to do is remind us, as if we need reminding, that he knows because he lives there. Perhaps he feels he needs a medal or something to live "over there". Very fair view David, we all have different opinions on a resort which we are all entitled to so shouldn't be dismissed so readily.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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sallyanne, so, let me get this straight, if someone asks "how is ski station X?" then anyone that's been or lived there shouldn't answer? Why's that exactly?
Snowheads must be the only web site you can get flamed in equal measure for recommending or not recommending places you've been to, in fact the only safe strategy appears pontificating about places you've never been.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I'll bet you've no idea what that photo's all about have you ?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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sallyanne, six of one and half a dozen of the other, mostly. I would definitely take issue with the comment about who has provided the most 'useful' information. I reckon that's a question of quality not quantity, and certainly isn't limited to the most prolific posters to this site.
What's more important is that threads aren't damaged by pointless bickering, and it takes two to get that going. There's some useful information above from people that have actually recently been to the resorts in question, and on the whole that's more helpful than generalised summaries of ski areas based on statistical and historical data, etc. That's the advantage of snowHeads over other methods of sourcing information, and I think we're lucky to have a group of knowledgeable people, some of whom are on the spot all year round, happy to give up their time to provide factual, honest, to the point info via snowHeads. We don't have to like their style!
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You know it makes sense.
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snowbunny, it's my favourite brand of fire extinguisher, but I'm open to suggestions of obscure German ones.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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We are indeed lucky to have many people of all sorts here who despite not being personally solicited to do so, voluntarily provide sometimes quite staggeringly good info in very good humour via  . However I find
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generalised summaries of ski areas based on statistical and historical data
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often just as helpful as reports based on personal experiences, which may not always be representative.
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Poster: A snowHead
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slikedges, I was obviously referring to the kind of facts such as, for example, having skied on the Grande Motte this morning, the current state of the glacier as of a few hours ago, how the powder was this morning, how long it lasted, how busy it was, what the weather/visibility was like, whether the glacier is likely to be able to stay open until the end of the month according to 'local' knowledge , etc. Other than the latter prediction, that type of information is not a matter of opinion.
Now if I was to express a view on the snack I ate at the Panoramic mid-morning, it is of course true that some people may differ with my opinion that the bread was stale.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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PG,
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I was obviously referring to the kind of facts such as, for example, having skied on the Grande Motte this morning, the current state of the glacier as of a few hours ago, how the powder was this morning, how long it lasted, how busy it was, what the weather/visibility was like, whether the glacier is likely to be able to stay open until the end of the month according to 'local' knowledge , etc. Other than the latter prediction, that type of information is not a matter of opinion.
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I don't disagree with the point you are making but I must admit I find how the powder was to be highly subjective. One persons dream powder is another mans nightmare.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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T Bar, well, I suppose I could always post pics! Let's just say it started off with fluffy light powder, but it didn't last that way for long  .... Take your pick of all qualities of the white stuff from first thing through to sticky wet porridge ...
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PG,
Well, I hope you enjoyed the former and are back to full skiing fitness.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I thought the Topic was Obscure German resorts ?
The thread may as well be canned if it continues on like this 
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T Bar, I believe that PG, is still full of bits of metal. I'm not sure if he counts that as ski fit.
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PG, Sure, that's all good stuff, obviously as long as you don't do it several times then mistakenly extrapolate your experiences into a definitive overview.
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slikedges, well I suppose if I do I could always write another Good Ski Guide 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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PG, and if you did I'd have to buy it
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slikedges,
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FAQ
