Hi all
Mr Snowyowl has bought a very silly (and expensive) car. It's big enough but it has gi-normous wheels and cannot have snow chains fitted. There is not enough space to fit them or sufficient clearance in the wheel arches to use them. The handbook says you can't use them. It's a Mercedes C63 AMG. The salesman promised that chains would be no problem. What did he know....?
Even with winter tyres there is no way I am going to drive up to Les Arcs without chains, last new year it was dodgy enough coming down to Bourg with the chains on after 3 hours digging the car out of 3 feet of snow....
Snow socks have been suggested. Are these really an adequate replacement for chains? (not sure these can be fitted either)
If all else fails where can we park the car under cover in Bourg..will get the funi/bus up. A public car park, or do you have a space in your garden/garage ?
Any other ideas? Instanrt divorce?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
snowyowl, Mercedes state that a lot of their models can't be fitted with chains as do some other manufacturers too. If you call one of the specialist chain suppliers you'll probably find that they can provide something suitable. I went through this with a Merc I had.
However with rear wheel drive and fat low profile tyres even with chains it will still be cr@p on snow or ice
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Thanks Colin, I will try Weissenfels first as we are pleased with the set we have which are exchangeable
Quote:
However with rear wheel drive and fat low profile tyres even with chains it will still be cr@p on snow or ice
Yes I know. It really wasn't my choice...but mr snowyowl knew best....he will do what he will do. PS it's automatic as well just to make it really daft up mountains...
As you drive along the main road into Bourg there is a multi-storey car park on your right hand side - it's a few hundred meters after lidels and before you get to the station. One minute walk to the funiculair from there.
It isn't cheap but then I guess that your hubby is paying??
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Investigate spkyes spyders they worked fine on a car I had that wouldn't fit chains.
Alternatively go and talk to the Dealer Principal as obviously their salesperson has misled you, and get them to supply a spare set of wheels/tyres that will take chains.
In any case get a set of winter tyres fitted!
They said chains couldn't be fitted to my car either (Audi not Merc) but probably similar size/profile of tyres and tighter to the wheel arches, I wouldn't want to upset Mr snowyowl by telling he's down on power (game of top trumps anyone).
Anyway, after a lot of shopping around I did find chains to fit, but even so there were two issues;
1) couldn't use full lock
2) had to use trolley jack to lift the car and thus open the suspension travel to be able to get them on.
So if you're prepared for a bit more of a faff than chains are usually then I would have thought you'd be ok.
I did try socks and still needed the trolley jack to drop the suspension but didn't like using them for various reasons.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I won't ask how you plan to get to Bourg from Moutiers if there has been a heavy dump of snow - I've had to use chains on that road several times!
After all it is free
After all it is free
Boris wrote:
I won't ask how you plan to get to Bourg from Moutiers if there has been a heavy dump of snow - I've had to use chains on that road several times!
I did have the same thought too!
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Quote:
I won't ask how you plan to get to Bourg from Moutiers if there has been a heavy dump of snow - I've had to use chains on that road several times!
Snap me too, best plan leave the AMG at home and hire a Range Rover with winter tyres
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
My wife's Skoda had similar warnings about snow chains but we found that Thule K-Summits fitted a treat and once they were adjusted fitted quickly and easily. They do not fit around the back of the wheel but are simply attached using a clamp over the wheel nuts. However they are expensive and once purchased only fit a narrow range of tyre sizes.
When I first read the title for this posting I actually thought you were trying to avoid the expensive parking charges at Arc 1800 by the simple expedient of unloading the car in 1800 then driving back down to Bourg, parking up for the week and getting the funicular back.
Quote:
Snap me too, best plan leave the AMG at home and hire a Range Rover with winter tyres
Surely the train would be less expensive,
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
marcellus wrote:
Boris wrote:
I won't ask how you plan to get to Bourg from Moutiers if there has been a heavy dump of snow - I've had to use chains on that road several times!
I did have the same thought too!
Yup. Me too. I recall one particuarly delightful drive from Chamonix to Tignes. It was dark, I was about 5km out of Moutiers. It was snowing hard. I'd been on the road for 5 hours already.
Can't say it was a great deal of fun. Still, thank heavens for head torches and latex gloves.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Quote:
Surely the train would be less expensive
and quicker, more relaxing and different
I have also heard of the Chainage areas in Albertville being manned by the Gendarmes, imagine how long it would take to drive from Albertville to BstM on chains
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Thanks chaps and chapesses.
Even in the worst snowfall we have never had snow enough to use chains beyond Bourg in the last 12 years going at Xmas Jan, Feb, March and Easter. Maybe we have been lucky? But worth the thought. So maybe not parking at Bourg... if we did park at Bourg we wouldn't be parking at Arc 1800 so I expect that would balance out.
We are trying to borrow a different car! Hopefully will be able to persuade a mate to swap a Range Rover for an AMG for a week.
Do you need chains on a 4WD Rangy? ( We live in the flatlands and we don't really have weather - or hills - and are not farmers so have never owned a 4WD. Not even (definitely not!) to take the kids to school in....!)
Have already thought about public transport, fly and car, fly & bus, train. With 4 of us travelling even paring down luggage to just 2 cases it's so much more expensive and a load more inconvenient. We had a very bad experience on French trains a few years ago - also very pricey for 4 - and we live 15 miles from station so add £50 for taxi..
Marcellus...Just not taking a trolley jack! But your post was v helpful.
Boredsurfing - very helpful, looks like a solution may be possible here
OK now I need to go tie him down to agreeing on a decision and make some bookings one way or another!
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
snowyowl, Get on train in London at around 10am (or Ashford) take as much (within reason ) luggage as you like. Including a picnic if you are not first class, get off train in Bourg, at 6/7pm along platform over bridge onto funicular up to Arcs. Whats not to like
Yes you have to have chains on board a 4x4 by law if the signs are showing on the roadside.
A Range Rover on poor tyre tread is like a hippo on ice!
I bought a car (not even German), and found out afterwards that chains 'could not be fitted'. I was very cross with myself - I never imagined that was a possibility, so never checked. I took it (as in drove it) to Snowchains in Borough Green, and they worked out which set would actually fit, even though the size wasn't listed on the box. Klack & Go low profile as it happens, but my point is that something might fit if you ask a specialist.
DJ
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Speak to AMG - even if they can't help directly they may have a solution or have fielded the question before. In any event, they are the most likely to know the answer.
Got a friend who owns a property in Les Arc and survived after his Merc skid into a ravine while coming down Les Arc. He told me there were several other cars there too.
Never drove up the road myself but it doesn't sound like a road for a 2WD. This type of road is best tackled with a 4x4 on snow tyres with a set of snowchains in the boot.
When it comes to snow the tyre is more important than the brand. High speed low profile tyres are the very opposite needed on road paved with snow.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
saikee wrote:
Never drove up the road myself but it doesn't sound like a road for a 2WD.
Not really, especially as the vast proportion of cars making that drive every day during the winter will be 2WD. The road up to Les Arcs is pretty straightforward for accessing a high altitude resort, just a couple of tight hairpins and nothing too steep. 2WD car will be fine if driven sensibly, even a heavy rear wheel drive, providing you are suitably equipped with chains and put them on early enough if the road is snow covered (which isn't that often as the snow clearance service is very efficient). Obviously a car with winter tyres and AWD will better cope with snow on the road surface, but it's not right to say that it's not a road for 2WD cars.
Of course the road to Les Arcs is usually clear, as are most of the roads to ski resorts. They have to be to cope with all the traffic. The vast majority of the vehicles using the road are two wheel drive. If I recall correctly I have only needed chains twice even though I have gone up and down several times a year for many years. In fact the only times I have needed chains is between 04:00 and 07:00 in the morning before the usual volume of traffic clears it.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
johnE, that's also my experience. I've only once got caught out by the road not being cleared properly, and that was before Les Arcs had opened for the winter (it was at the end of November) and I needed to be in Tignes by 8.00am so made an early start from Arc 1800 unfortunately in the middle of a blizzard. Other than that I've always been impressed by how efficiently the road is kept clear.
I am sure in the summer every vehicle can get up and down the road without a problem. The point is this friend of mine has been going his property in Les Arc for over 40 years (he still has the property but used by his children now), caught out and found fellow cars in the same spot in the ravine. He since changed his outlook as it was a miracle that he survived.
The danger wasn't snow. It was black ice!
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
We've been going there for 12 years. We have used chains on many occasions - 7 we think but could be more- at Christmas/New Year, but only once right down to Bourg - Jan 2012. The rest of the time have had no problems in various different 2wd cars including in summer, once, a 35 year old classic 1 litre car with 4 up and trailer (poor thing!). But I'm not risking it and losing my car, my family etc. When we are retired we'll be able just to stay on until the road is clear..
We have resolved the matter now! Found an unexpectedly excellent price for flights to Chambery just over £110 each (return) for 22 December. Now just deciding whether to get a hire car - with chains! or book a private transfer from Chambery, as train times and Altibus times don't work with the flight time - which is why it's cheap. So the Merc is going for a little holiday at a UK Airport. For 4 of us it's cheaper to get a car I think. Unless you guys know of other ways to get from Chambery at 7pm on a Saturday to Arc 1800 by magic...thinking...maybe we hitch a ride on a tour operator's transfer - did that before and it worked....
After all it is free
After all it is free
snowyowl, If you need a private transfer be sure to have a look at www.ski4funtransfers.co.uk I have used them a few times now, they are excellent, competitive price and all official licences etc
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
4x4 Fiat Panda - that's what you need
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
saikee wrote:
rob@rar,
I am sure in the summer every vehicle can get up and down the road without a problem. The point is this friend of mine has been going his property in Les Arc for over 40 years (he still has the property but used by his children now), caught out and found fellow cars in the same spot in the ravine. He since changed his outlook as it was a miracle that he survived.
The danger wasn't snow. It was black ice!
Unfortunate for your friend, but black ice can occur on any road in the Alps, not just resort access roads, so potentially any bend or corner can present a hazard.
To claim that a road is not suitable for 2WD cars based on 2nd hand info of one incident is just plain daft, especially as you've not even driven that road yourself. Each day, winter and summer, hundreds of 2WD cars drive up and down that road without incident. Of course it is suitable for 2WD cars!
Obviously it is better to be equipped with winter tyres and to drive in a manner which is appropriate for the conditions. You should carry chains, and if you choose an AWD car you'll reduce the number of times you have to fit them to make progress up the hill. But if you "only" have a 2WD car please disregard the advice that this road is unsuitable for your vehicle as it's just nonsense.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
rob@rar wrote:
saikee wrote:
rob@rar,
I am sure in the summer every vehicle can get up and down the road without a problem. The point is this friend of mine has been going his property in Les Arc for over 40 years (he still has the property but used by his children now), caught out and found fellow cars in the same spot in the ravine. He since changed his outlook as it was a miracle that he survived.
The danger wasn't snow. It was black ice!
Unfortunate for your friend, but black ice can occur on any road in the Alps, not just resort access roads, so potentially any bend or corner can present a hazard.
to add.........................neither chains, 4 wheel drive nor full winter tyres or any combination of any/all them will really help with Black Ice..... driver awareness is the most important thing!!
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Quote:
4x4 Fiat Panda - that's what you need
yes maybe, our son who is about to learn to drive will need a car...but could you get 4 people and luggage in for a 1500+ mile trip I wonder?
Boredsurfing, Thanks for the hint. Am doing!
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
and make some bookings one way or another!
