 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi all,
I was wondering if anybody could give me some advice regarding my 10 year old daughter.
My wife and I are fairly competant skiers, but daughter is progressing very slowly.
The problem is, we are off to Finland in January and daughter is still insisting on snowploughing and just will not push herself into parallel turns. The resort we are going to only does ski school for 1 3/4 hours a day so one or both of us will "miss out" on a full day's skiing.
I dont mean it to sound as harse as it comes across!! I just want to find a way to encourage her into "pushing herself" a little more than she is. Usually, she's no shrinking violet, but for some reason she has got herself into a comfort zone and won't budge from it. She loves skiing, so it's not like she's doing it just to appease us. Would she find the learning curve for progressing to parallel easier if we pout her on blades instead of skis?
Any thoughts / working suggestions most apprieciated!
Regards
Sark
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Mr_Sark, welcome to snowHeads!
Have you thought about whether she might like to join in with the fun at the www.norfolkskiclub.com ?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Welcome to  Mr_Sark, 1 2 1 ski lessons, and hopefully she will experience what a difference skiing parallel makes to her enjoyment
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Rob,
Yes, we are already members at the Ski club but they don't do any lessons for kids other than the beginner basics (which she already has)
Frosty,
1 2 1 lessons? I guess thats an option! hadn't really considered that, was trying to solve the "problem" in what seemed to be the most logical way!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Hi Mr_Sark, welcome to snowHeads! Sounds like she needs to go to a good ski school and have either some private tuition or small class tuition. The important thing is not to push her, as I'm sure you realise. I found the transition from snowploughing to parallel very hard, just because no-one in my ski school actually told me what I should physically do to ski parellel - I don't know if they expected it to just come naturally! Masterclass, an English scki school in Alpe d'Huez got me skiing parallel in literally 10 minutes of the first lesson. I'm sure someone like easiski will be along to offer some good advice (she's a ski instructor in Les 2 Alpes)
How about trying some lessons at Milton Keynes snowdome? Private lessons are NOT cheap but if it means you get a better holiday in Norway then it may be worth while. Good luck.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Mr_Sark, firstly, the most important thing is control. If your daughter's in control she's to be congratulated!
The opening days of my training as a ski instructor, by the legendary Ali Ross, were dominated by perfecting the carved snowplough. He used to deconstruct ski racers' bad habits by taking them down whole mountains in a snowplough.
As your daughter gains confidence and picks up speed she will naturally lose the plough because the parallel turn is a more efficient way to ski. One thing I would teach her is the fan method, which involves working on the traverse position and sideslip. You do a traverse that ends with a skidded or carved ending up the hill to stop. Then you repeat, steepening the traverse. And you go on repeating the traverse, steepening the descent each time, ending each time with the carved or skidded halt. It's all done with parallel skis, but without crossing the fall-line (which you do in a complete parallel turn).
It's a nice way of breaking into the feel of the parallel turn, without crossing the fall-line, which is what can faze people.
Anyway, I'm sure she'll be absolutely fine with a little good instruction.
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Mr_Sark, Welcome to Snowheads, I will echo the above comment's about lessons in the uk, either Norfolk or MK possiby. Do Norfolk not have 'junior development' classes or the equivalent. This may be the next step up at the moment, but may encourage her to improve her skiing to be able to take part.
Private lessons are obviously an expensive option, but for a small price now, think of the fum you could have in Finland.
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I think the idea of blades is a good one, if she is fairly tall and strong for her age (if not, still OK if you get blades with releasing bindings). My daughter was just the same - though she could do pretty good parallel turns, she did them with excessive control and slow speed! Two things got her going. One was having a complete beginner cousin come on a holiday. He was a junior champion squash player, very strong and athletic and not afraid of falling over - red runs on day 4. She was so determined not to be overtaken by a complete beginner that she went MUCH faster to stay ahead. The other thing was blades - she just took off on blades, much more free and fluid in movement (she was a stick-clutcher on skis).
So, two suggestions - take a friend to keep her company, maybe a sporty beginner. Your daughter will start with a headstart and feel competent in comparison, rather than incompetent in comparison to her parents. And try blades a few times. If you have never used them, you try them too. And, as Cathy Coins says, don't push her. At all. With a ten year old, it's probably very over-optimistic to think that both parents are going to get full days skiing in, so aim to make this the holiday when she really gets going. One to one lessons (which would have to be on skis, but get her REALLY SHORT SKIS) can be a bit intimidating for a child alone - maybe with a friend along, it would work better, and if she started from scratch with a beginner friend and an instructor he/she would probably quickly spot the problems which are keeping her in snowplough position. Plus, she would have more fun when not skiing, and need less input from you to keep her entertained. Parents are soooooooo boring!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I'd agree that blades are fine, and fun. No reason why she couldn't try playing around with blades, and she'd probably naturally learn a 'hockey stop' type turn on those.
Way back in the 70s I tried teaching people parallels from the off with ultra short skis (not called blades then). It's an accepted method of instruction, originally called 'Ski Evolutif' in France, or 'Graduated Length Method' in the USA. It usually involves stepping up the ski length every lesson, from very short up to normal length.
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My daughter was very similar. She had no desire for speed, hence skiing in ploughs all the time was very comfortable for her.
We did a 1 2 1 lesson for her and the instructor could tell that she had the ability and therefore gradually upped the pace of the skiing and then my daughter began paralleling quite comfortably.
You wait and see, a couple of years, I bet we see a post on here from a 12 year old complaining that her dad can't keep up!!!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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random thoughts as a full time instructor and dad.
1. snowplowing ("U" omitted) is a defensive "i don't want to go there" position. often it is caused by being "over-terrained" or "ill fitting equipment". bore her on easy terrain and the plow or plough may fall off the front of the vehicle.
2. if she skis with other kids her age she will want to "keep up" and peer pressure will make her do things you won't get her to do or an instructor won't get her to do.
3. find an 18 year old female instructor. my daughter at age ten had a young instructor that she adored. she watched everything this girl did from who she braided her hair, to the cloths she wore to the turns she made. call it a crush call it whatever, i called it good turns!
4. the moment she realizes this issue bothers you it will really become an issue. my daughter is 12. she is a pretty good skier by any accounts. she is very good in some areas, fair in others, lousy in some. let me merely mention "working on her weaknesses" and they go from a weakness to crippling. i have learned to pretend i don't care.
5. lastly "bribes", "there is no way on god's green earth" or "i can't do it can you?". i merely mentioned a goal of mine to my daughter and it turned into a wager. i work at Winter Park in Colorado. One of our famous bump runs is called Outhouse. Last year at age FIFTY (read old fart) I realized I had fallen into the habit at age FIFTY (read old man) of taking four or five breaks while skiing it. I THINK THAT IS PATHETIC. My goal is to ski it top to bottom with a little pizzaz. It's about 1500 feet of vert and I bet 300 turns. I doubt I'll have the legs at age FIFTY (read senior citizen) to do it but we now have a friendly family wager as to who can do it first. 
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Tue 4-10-05 17:21; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Good suggestions by all, but if I had to single out one of them as the most important, IMO, it would be to have your daughter ski with a variety of other kids, either one-on-one, or in small groups.
As mentioned above, if your daughter is better than some of her companions, she will assume the mentor role. Even at her level, there probably is nothing better for one's skiing than being put in a position where you are forced to be a role model and teach what you know.
Minor teaching experiences has worked absolute wonders for my 13 y.o. daughter's skills and confidence. Often, she will want to shadow one of my classes. I'll let her do some of the skiing demos, escort guests down that need to quit early, be the sweep to round up the stragglers, or take the lead so that I can ski with individual guests. Even such minor and occasional "teaching" roles has done wonders for her fundamentals and confidence.
OTOH, it is probably equally beneficial to have a youngster regularly ski with kids that are better than her. Assuming she is motivated to "hang" with that crowd and not intimidated by them, she will make it her business to improve simply to keep up.
The better skiers can (and should) range from just a bit better than her to a lot better. The 18 y.o. female instructor mentioned by Rusty is an example of the latter. At our mountain, we have mid-teen "junior instructors" who may not know the fundamentals as well as old fart instructors like Rusty and myself, but pre-teen guests (and my daughter) seem to adore them. Sometimes the same gender is better, sometimes the opposite is better. Perhaps this option is available where you ski. If you are visiting a resort and don't want to go the young instructor route, I have had success finding another family with a child of roughly the same age and ability as my daughter, skiing a couple of runs with them and seeing if the kids hit it off.
Finally, sometimes the old reliable method of taking a lesson from an adult instructor is the most productive. It all depends on your daughter's motivation and personality. In this vein, my daughter loves to take advantage of a perk we have at our ski school in which family members of instructors get free lessons. She *loves* the special treatment, and often has showed major improvements when skiing with other adult instructors instead of (yawn) skiing with Dad one more time. Much to my amazement, she will actually listen to and remember what they said. When I am skiing with her, zero explanations and lots of skiing (ie, teaching by example) clearly works best. I think this is true for most parents trying to teach their own child.
So, getting back to Mr_Sark's situation ... Which of the above should he do? My suggestion would be to try a bit of each. You'll know soon enough which work and which don't.
Cheers,
Tom / PM
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Wed 5-10-05 15:29; edited 1 time in total
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I'd gotten to Rusty Guy's post with the same thing in mind as him and Physicsman. Firstly, all the training in the world won't budge your daughter's snowplough until she's ready (you know this already). Second problem is that, as with most kids her age, info coming from an adult is unpaletable (sadly it's worse coming from Mum and/or Dad).
Which is why nothing works better at age 10 than peer pressure. Plonk daughter in ski-school with age and language-appropriate peers (either here in UK, or the Alps) and by end of day you'll come back to find her "suddenly" skiing parallel.
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You know it makes sense.
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I am an Instructor at the Norfolk Ski Club and help with the Junior Club on a Saturday morning. We run 4 different groups for all abilities and your daughter might find skiing with other children helps move her along. Initially she would need to come to the Kadets session from 1-2pm as her skiing progressed she would move up through the other groups. Alternatively has she tried the continuation lessons specifically for children which run on a Saturday afternoon after completion of which she could come to instructor supervised children's open practice. (all details are on web site see Junor Programme button ) I would also mention that the beginners slope has been relaid with Snowflex and a new intermediate slope is due to open on Friday also covered with Snowflex which is a carpet like surface and much less intimidating than the old Dendex surface which is on the main slope. If you want any more information please ask or why not bring your daughter down on a Saturday morning between 9 and 2 to see what we get up to.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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p-mans post reminded me of something i have done with my daughter. she has had in my mind the best instructor in colorado last winter. about once a month she skiied all day with an examiner from PSIA who is a friend of mine.
a few days after her lesson i would ask her to give me an hour lesson. in a fun way we would delve into a wide range of topics, however, it was her leading the charge.
she has fun criticising her old man's skiing and it forces her to make good demonstrations.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Physicsman wrote: |
She *loves* the special treatment, and often has showed major improvements when skiing with other adult instructors instead of (yawn) skiing with Dad one more time. Much to my amazement, she will actually listen to and remember what they said. When I am skiing with her, zero explanations and lots of skiing (ie, teaching by example) clearly works best. I think this is true for most parents trying to teach their own child.
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we have an expression around our house
being able to ski with friends as opposed to her father turns D.O.D. (dumb old dad) into D.O.D. (dear old dad)
all i ask is one or two runs per week
come to colorado and your daughter can take off with mine. it will expand my kids horizons to ski with someone from another country. she'll shed the wedge in that situation. go to epicski and query "cgeib" about the very topic. that is what we did with his kid.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Thank's all for the advice! Seems I "knew" the answer all along! Dad's Suck!
kevinrhead, We are members at Norwich dry slope and have been told on many occasions that there is no continuation programme for her! There always seem to be as many different answers there, directly related to the number of people you speak to! Hazard of being run by a committee rather than as a profit making business I guess! and being "new members" our faces don't "fit" yet! 
Kadets I HAVE heard of and will be bringing her down for in the very near future.. ! PM me more details as I am sure we must have met at some stage!
Cheers
Sark
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Mr_Sark, I have sent PM with more info. Kevin
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