 Poster: A snowHead
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Looking through the 'Snow and Rock' catalogue even less space is devoted to ski bindings than last year.
330 glossy pages - but no separate pages for bindings. If you look in the index it refers you to the ski pages. Bindings are briefly described, as an afterthought, in the page devoted to the ski manufacturer that owns them.
No such problem exists for snowboarders who get four pages devoted exclusively to snowboard bindings, plus two more pages exclusively for women's snowboard bindings. In fact S&R have a different marketing approach here. No packages for snowboarders this year, unless you buy everything - boots, binding, board, bag - when you get a stingy 10% off.
Eighteen skis in the S&R catalogue are sold as 'ski only' and not available as a package.
You may not be transferring existing bindings when you buy a new pair of skis. How are you supposed to work out the total cost of your purchase ?
Probably worth asking for free bindings to be included -even if you buy at sale time. It used to work for poles and a bag.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Latchigo, bindings seem to be something of an afterthought, don't they? Strange, given that it's this bit of kit which, if poorly chosen or worse, poorly set up, is most likely to leave you with a serious knee injury.
Now that snowboarders are so used to moving binding angles to suit different riding styles and / or snow conditions there is much emphasis on the choice of the right kit whereas those of us who ski tend to just buy whatever gets suggested by the bod in the shop.
That said, I've just shelled out a ridiculous amount for some slightly non-standard bindings which are getting very mixed reviews - a risky approach but they will allow me to a) move one pair of bindings between different skis (as snowboarders have been able to do for ages by carrying a phillips screwdriver in their daypack) and b) mount the bindings more centrally if I ever work out how to get around the park without looking like a complete ape. Admittedly, b) is a bit pointless since I can't see me riding too many rails  , but you never know .....
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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zammo, what are they?
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David Murdoch, At a guess sound like Line Reactor bindings.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Skiers had a chance to 'strike for independence' in buying skis and bindings as separate components, but the manufacturers have driven a strong manufacturing and marketing strategy to have bindings delivered to the punter as an integral component.
This has radically reduced the workshop skills (drills) required to sell the hardware, but I tend to agree with those who believe that a good binding can long outlast a ski. Call me an old fart (many do) but I'd confidently ski on a pair of Look N77 bindings of the late 1970s - brilliantly solid engineering which hasn't been significantly superseded.
It's pretty wasteful for good bindings to be dumped, simply because a ski is shot.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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David Goldsmith, Old fart.
There, I feel better for that.
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David Murdoch, they are indeed the Line Reactor binding. They have received, as I say, very mixed reviews (for some extreme opinions search for 'Reactor' on the forum at http://www.newschoolers.com )
The idea is sound - you design a binding which works on the same 'screw-in' based philosophy of the snowboard binding.
Line, as it happens, are struggling with manufacturing due mostly to overdemand so it is likely, apparently, that they will sell 49% of the IP to an established binding manufacturer or enter into some kind of JV and get them to market more efficiently in that way.
SammyQ, you guessed right - have you used them?
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The one and only test I did of the Line Reactor binding did not feel right at all. I started, as I generally do, by self-testing the twist release (don't ever trust DIN settings) with the ski stationary and on edge, and found that on my normal setting of 8 I was unable to get out. The DIN was cranked down until I felt OK - I think it ended up at around 6 - and then skied on it.
This Line binding was from Line's early production, so hopefully the quality control is OK now. Innovative thinking is needed if knee injuries are to be reduced, and this is certainly an original design.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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David Goldsmith, I think you're absolutely right, binding design hasn't changed since the 70's and I agree with you that the Look design hasn't been bettered. I seem to remember that F2 tried to introduce a plate binding back in the 80's and that didn't work out.
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I agree that the manufacturers are pushing packages, but if you buy a ski that is not part of a package you may not know what your total bill will be.
Regarding Look bindings, I mentioned on Epic ski that I did not like them because they did not always shut with a satisfying click. Sometimes I needed to 'help' them close by pulling up the lever at the back. (This was in response to a thread that showed some pretty old gear).
I was then told that my comments only applied to old Look bindings. I had a check in the garage and they are Look SP69 from the mid 1980s - only a couple of decades old, at most, and certainly younger than your 1970s gear. 
My binding of choice would be Salomon. They shut with a nice click and everybody used to stock them. This may well change if favoured package skis come ready-fitted with a different brand.
Maybe I should count my blessings. Any injuries I have incurred have never been the fault of the various bindings I have used.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Latchigo wrote: |
| Regarding Look bindings, I mentioned on Epic ski that I did not like them because they did not always shut with a satisfying click. Sometimes I needed to 'help' them close by pulling up the lever at the back. |
The ability to help yourself into the bindings by pulling the lever at the back is why I think they are great for powder skis - if the snow is too soft to get a good downward pressure, then you can pull the binding on.
(I'm fairly certain they do make a resound click now, but I'll test my Rossi 120s tonight)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Latchigo, the Looks I was talking about are classic old metal turntables with piston heels. They gave a very satisfying and solid entry. Cheaper Looks of that vintage had nastier heel units.
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Clunk click every trip...
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You know it makes sense.
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Interesting, I had forgotten that Line had launhced these as you just don't see them around much. My read of the Pivogy technology is that the binding somehow determines what way you're falling and locks the pivit on which ever end it thinks is apropriate. What if you're in a very complex starfishing twisty turny fall?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| David Murdoch wrote: |
| My read of the Pivogy technology is that the binding somehow determines what way you're falling and locks the pivit on which ever end it thinks is apropriate. What if you're in a very complex starfishing twisty turny fall? |
The skis unscrew themselves, and eject to a safe distance.
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Poster: A snowHead
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zammo, I have not used them, the shop I purchased my skis from refused to fit them. The owner in his opinion said they were unsafe I can't remember why, he seemed very knowledgeable on the subject though. I think they're a great idea, and people are afraid of change.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Wear The Fox Hat, that's very clever of them. Is there a "valet" version that picks you up, dusts you down, finds the skis you've lost in the neck deep stuff and offers a warming and consoling brandy? Preferably a matching pair of valets called Natasha and Tanya?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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David Goldsmith,
Good point about the test of the bindings. I hire, so Ialways, always, always twist the ski out of a binding, both feet before my first run in them. You also know your knee muscles are in shape if you can twist out of about din 9.
Amd I always show newbies this but am amazed how many people miss this simple test..!!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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SammyQ, which part of the 'idea'?
- Center mounted carving plates are nothing new to Pivogy (witness previously marketed plates from Tyrolia, Vist, Adrian Floreani's Flo other boutique makers)
- Threaded inserts for ski bindings are nothing new (witness K2 telemark mounting patterns in addition to non-release bindings for miniskis)
- Dual-toepiece design (not yet proven safer in studies)?
IP buyout? I don't see it: unless hypercarving skis make a miraculous comeback I don't see that any major binding co. is going to wish to spend money on this.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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JT, i didnt even know you could do this !
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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JT, I don't think I can do that in mine at around DIN 6. I do often kick out the back binding though - if I can't it's too tight, if I can I watch for pre-releases.
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how do you do that David Murdoch ?
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Royal, err, stand on you skis, lift one foot and stamp down, as though kicking the ski backwards. Be careful not to send ski airborne into onlookers behind!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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David Murdoch, er sorry re-reading your post, you description is the same as mine 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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ski, no furries  you're right they don't test the setting.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Test? 
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FAQ
