 Poster: A snowHead
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I thought it might be of interest to let people know about my friend.
He is an experienced boarder who was boarding (goofy) on-piste in St Johann 2 yrs ago.
He was making a blind-side turn and a lady skier suddenly came into view over his shoulder. He put on the brakes and they had a low-speed impact and "cuddled" briefly but she then fell backwards awkwardly and hurt her knee. He did all the right stuff, called the piste patrol, stayed with her, exchanged details etc. He let his insurers know but they weren't very interested as he was un-injured. He thought no more of it.
Several months later, he received a letter from the Austrian courts (in Austrian) saying that he had been found culpable for the accident and was liable for the lady's ACL injury, rehab, loss of earnings, trauma etc. His insurers were for a long time unhelpful, but eventually appointed a lawyer.
He has had to go out to Austria, both briefs, my friend and the judge visited the site of the accident (on skis/boards!) and there was a subsequent court appearance but all is not yet settled.
The nub of the argument is that the lady alleges that he was above, but he says that they were on the same level - she was a relatively inexperienced skier doing wide slow turns and at the time of the accident was crossing the piste to get to her sons who were waiting in a nearby restaurant. He is well aware of the FIS rules and sensible.
Of interest is that the UK-based lawyer says that he is now dealing with about 20 cases like this every year.
Thought you might all like to know that suings are happening in Europe as well as the North America.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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just another example of the suing culture today. makes me feel a little ill tbh. injury, rehab, loss of earnings, trauma. BAH You go skiing, you might get hurt. poo-poo happens! excuse my french. I hate people like that ( the women). Hope it all works out for your mate 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Freddie Paellahead, I wonder if the lady concerned had insurance herself ? An awful lot of people do seem to go skiing without insurance in Europe, I remember being surprised when the wife of some German friends of mine ended up in hospital with concussion after a ski accident and discovering they had no insurance, it was particularly surprising as she was a senior nurse, her husband a proffesor surgeon and the kids are all doing medical type degrees
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Madness! Hope the judge throws the thing out of court.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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xander89, I Agree. This certainly highlights the need to ensure that you have comprehensive insurance cover.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Insurance premium costs will escalate 
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D G Orf, I am not sure if she had her own insurance - she did, however, have her own lawyer! She is a German national living in ?Czech Republic.
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Freddie Paellahead, good luck to him.
I true snowhead tradition we should all pile in with opinions on an incident we know nothing about; she was inexperienced skier and slowly traversing the piste, he was experienced boarder and caning it down the hill.
Verdict - She ran into him as he sat just over a blind rise.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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How can he have been found culpable when he ws not informed of proceedings and it was a he said/she said scenario. Sadly there are many people who wouldn't know the FIS code if it hit them (just as I did last week to a clown who pulled out blind from a static crowd completely into my path) . Fortunately his skis just got skied over and he got a fluent versing in anglo-saxon and the wisdom of looking before starting out on a very narrow, busy, choppy home run but it could have been much worse for both of us.
A good reason to disobey the code and ski off if you are not in the wrong if you can get dragged into something like this by doing the right thing?
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| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
| I true snowhead tradition we should all pile in with opinions on an incident we know nothing about; |
I have no reason to doubt the description that was given in the OP, not least because the majority of collisions that I see on the piste are similar: slow speed, possibly 50:50 fault, and the result of the nature of the activity rather than out and out negligence which is provable in court. If we start pursuing each and every such accident in court it's going to make skiing a whole lot less fun...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Freddie Paellahead, that's shocking. One might guess that she didn't bother looking up the slope when she was crossing it  Maybe my parents drilled this into me when I was a kid but shouldn't you always look both ways when crossing a street? Even if it is a one way traffic.
Were there any witnesses at the time?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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It seems we'll all end up looking like the Gaper Spirit Animal with cameras sprinkled all over our helmets.
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You know it makes sense.
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red 27, as I understand it, he/his insurer is effectively appealing the decision.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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xander89,
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I hate people like that ( the women)
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Sexist, much??
Freddie Paellahead, hope he gets it thrown out too,sounds costly
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Poster: A snowHead
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Freddie Paellahead, I see - maybe that's how it works, you get found guilty first and then have to appeal in order to put in a defence.
Nothing would surprise me with the Austrians.
Sounds like any old car-crash to me - the insurers battle it our between themselves. What surprises / worries is that your friend had to go over there himself - presumably at his own expense
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Right or wrong she will win. The insurer is already in the hole to the tune of a good few grand for that site inspection and the prospect of spending 000s more on a foreign case means they'll almost certainly cut their losses pre trial by making her an out of court offer.
And he's a snowboarder. I rest my case m'lud.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Another reason for not exchanging details - as soon as the piste patrol arrives, hand over the casualty to them, disappear. That is what will happen as a result of actions like this. People will suddenly become someone else, handing over incorrect details, skiing off after incidents, and no doubt injured parties will be left on the piste with no assistance for fear of ending up in court when accidents inevitably happen.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Boredsurfing, I'm sure Chris Reynard will be making the business plan right now. 
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Wow that's a really crappy situation for your friend. It takes two to have a collision but only one person to avoid it... As others have said, this would make me think twice before handing over any kind of details.
One can only hope that the proceedings and resulting stress are making the woman concentrate on her injuries rather than concentrate on getting better and she is in a lot more pain that she otherwise would be
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folk who are saying they would not hand details over worry me. With public liability cover the damages would be covered, surely. That's why we get insurance.......
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holidayloverxx, +1. It's like car accidents - better not to admit liability, but details should still be handed over.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Monium, that's already happening, as can be seen from pedantica's thread in the Piste this morning, and from my hubby's experience a few years ago.
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Hells Bells, there is a big difference between not handing over details and not getting someone the help they need!
Unfortunately my ski outfit is far too yellow to be able to get away with a hit-and-ski
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Tricky one. The law should be finely balanced so that most of the collisions happening can be thrown out of court as bad luck / fault of both parties / inherent risk of this type of activity, and in a few ones where one party has been clearly negligent/ reckless etc, they would be liable. I don't think that's easy to accomplish.
I think the OP posted in a balanced way and for information purposes. That said, I guess we could also have had a balanced and informative post from a friend of that lady, the gist of which would be that you can actually get compensation if someone runs into you. Tough to be sure of what happened there, good thing the OP's friend had insurance.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Freddie Paellahead wrote: |
He was making a blind-side turn and a lady skier suddenly came into view over his shoulder. |
Sounds as though your friend would have benefit from not turning without looking.
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This does raise in interesting point, when does the up-hill skier (or boarder or whatever) stop being responsible for the downhill skier.
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You know it makes sense.
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Richard_Sideways, Just after you pick them up off the floor 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Freddie Paellahead, an interesting post! I hope it turns out well for your friend.
Those of you advocating not giving your details could actually end up in more trouble if, in your absence, you are deemed to have caused the accident. This may not be decided by a court, it could be decided by the piste patrol from the information given actually on the day of the accident. Giving your name and accommodation address is actually required by law and failure to do so when asked by the officials can cause you big problems. You should not at any time admit any liability of any kind though, nor are you required to. Just give your name and contact details in the resort.
Many mainland Europeans do not have travel insurance of any kind when on skiing holidays It is getting more and more difficult to get anything other than the most rudimentary emergency treatment in Austrian hospitals as they are being left sitting on the costs in a lot of cases. I got caught like this last summer when I broke my ankle and was treated at the local hospital in Schladming. Previous injuries have been treated at no cost once I produced my EHIC card. This time I had to pay for a lot of things upfront and was later billed directly for all the treatment I received (reclaimed from my health insurer here in Germany). When I asked why, they told me it was because of all the unpaid bills they had had to write off in the past that they are now making people pay for treatment if they do not provide evidence of a travel insurance. I simply forgot I had annual travel insurance and only offered my EHIC card.
Maybe this lady tried to get away without paying anything and ended up paying a lot instead. So claiming against the snowboarder's insurance was a ploy to regain her money and that started the whole sad action. As she was in the driving seat so to speak, she and her sons/witnesses could paint a pretty dire picture of the causes of the accident as well as the impact. Anything to get her money back and more! Always try to get the names and contact details of any witnesses as well if you can, especially independent ones not involved with you or the other person. That way should it ever come down to your word against the other person, there are independent opinions as well to be taken into consideration.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Knock for knock! any witnesses?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Samerberg Sue,
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When I asked why, they told me it was because of all the unpaid bills they had had to write off in the past that they are now making people pay for treatment if they do not provide evidence of a travel insurance. I simply forgot I had annual travel insurance and only offered my EHIC card.
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Interesting. My brother-in-law recently had a bad skiing accident and both Moutiers and Chambery Hospitals were much more concerned to see his EHIC card than his travel insurance certificate. 
As to the rest of your post, it is as I said - the same principles apply as apply to car accidents.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Get him to try and arrange the court date for sometime next season.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
Many mainland Europeans do not have travel insurance of any kind when on skiing holidays It is getting more and more difficult to get anything other than the most rudimentary emergency treatment in Austrian hospitals as they are being left sitting on the costs in a lot of cases.
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That is a really interesting point.
Do you know why it is more common for 'mainlanders' not to have travel insurance? difference culture re risk, expectation there is a reciprocal agreements, something else?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Richard_Sideways wrote: |
| This does raise in interesting point, when does the up-hill skier (or boarder or whatever) stop being responsible for the downhill skier. |
Did the uphill skier only have time to shout "Cock". 
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Out of interest, is it the law that you have to exchange details, or just the accepted code of practice? If someone crosses the road to avoid going near me and gets run over, do I need to exchange details then so they can sue me? Or if someone runs into me on the piste and we are both unhurt do I have to exchange details?
I wonder how they would know whether any of my details are correct - I don't carry a wallet around with any ID, my lift pass is bought by someone else that doesn't normally have my name, and it is an easy argument to say that the person trying to identify me must be mistaken, there are lots of people with a black jacket on the mountain, after all it sounds like they had just been hit by an out of control skiier...
The lifties aren't the police, so have no juristiction to start making arrests and demanding details. So why run the risk of this kind of case against you if you were clearly not at fault? Even if you were at fault, why take the chance? If you don't have travel insurance and a serious incident happens, you could lose your house just defending it, even if you were in the right!
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Do like the fact that Freddie Paellahead's mate has been riding with an Austrian judge, hope they hit the park on their way down, few beers followed up by frauleins and hot-tubbing, Justice has been served.
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That sounds truly grim, whatever the initial circumstances.
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Get him to try and arrange the court date for sometime next season.
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given the way justice worked in his case, I can't imagine he'd ever go near Austria voluntarily again.
I wonder if that woman had powerful connections? Like the driver who knocked my brother off his motorbike, in front of two witnesses (drivers who had slowed behind him, as he signalled to turn right, in pouring rain, in a fairly small road, and so clearly saw the idiot who overtook them all at speed and slammed into my brother's right hand side as he turned).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Freddie Paellahead wrote: |
...He was making a blind-side turn and a lady skier suddenly came into view...
The nub of the argument is that the lady alleges that he was above, but he says that they were on the same level - she was a relatively inexperienced skier doing wide slow turns and at the time of the accident... |
I've interpreted this incident - rightly or wrongly - as presented by the OP as
Limitations of the mechanics of snowboarding combined with the inexperienced skier not knowing that snowboarders have a blind spot in the turn equals collision on piste.
This verdict will be interesting.
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FAQ
tradition) the lady skier will be along here shortly to give 'her version of the truth' 
