 Poster: A snowHead
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I heard this when in Tignes recently. The main Aeroski gondola from Tignes le Lac (2100) is becoming less reliable now it's over 25 years old. Apparently there's a possibility it will be taken out and replaced with a chairlift.
Any other Snowheads know anything about this? It would be a retrograde step to have a chairlift I think. It could do with a new jumbo gondola, similar to the Olympique from Val D'Isere.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Bloody hell, shows how old I am I still think of it as the new gondola and remember the old eggs that used to go up to Toviere. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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intermediate, I think this is part of the grand plan which was also threathening the Paquis chair last year. The vertical of the Aeroski isn't huge and a chair could stay close to the terrain; quite a few resorts have replace gondolas with chairs, think of some of the recent changes in Les Menuires. Personally I prefer chairs to gondolas as less faff time taking off skis etc.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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This lift is a right pain in the posterior.
A hugely important uplift, it has massive queues in peak season, but is generally a complete faff at both top and bottom and very uncomfortable standing like sardines all the way to the top. For those wanting to retrace their steps having just completed the Trolles or coming over from Lavachet round the back of Rosset it is also a pain to actually get to as it starts uphill from the lowest points of these routes. This must be the most herring-boned section of the entire resort even with the short magic carpet nearby.
In addition this season, STGM seem to have decided the final high-speed shuss off the Trolles to get up to the main square is just too dangerous by adding a chicane of fences at the lowest part of the piste.
Replacing it with a six man or dare I even suggest an eight man chair like the Tomeuses which starts at the low point on the other side of the piste from the short Rosset chair would be a huge improvement. A short drag or tow rope up to the main square could complete the project giving easier access to the main square from Lavachet. The main difficulty would be doing this safely to ensure separation from those making their way to the lift from anyone coming off the bottom section of Trolles at speed. Trolles would need to be safely terminated pretty much where the chicanes currently are.
However they do it, so long as they replace it with something fit for the purpose of the main uplift from Lac to Val D, I won't miss the Aeroski when it is gone.
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chocksaway, I can see the point about downloading. When I was in Les Arcs this year kids were downloading off the Plan-Peisey chair and it was a bit of a pain in the butt as it stopped others going up at the same time.
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i hate those stand-up gondolas.
An 8-pack chair like Tommasseues (sp) would be a huge improvement and it could be sited in a way so as to avoid the walk/pole from the bottom of Trolles
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| T Bar wrote: |
| Bloody hell, shows how old I am I still think of it as the new gondola and remember the old eggs that used to go up to Toviere. |
Me too!!!!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| stevew wrote: |
| chocksaway, I can see the point about downloading. When I was in Les Arcs this year kids were downloading off the Plan-Peisey chair and it was a bit of a pain in the butt as it stopped others going up at the same time. |
There are loads of little looping escape roads on Trolles for people who want to avoid the 'steep' bits. The lack of downloading ability wouldn't be so much of a 'problem' - at least on paper - if they made that route an official blue piste that intersects Trolles on the way down.
We experienced some Aeroski unreliability last week btw.
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^ Trolles is still too steep in places for beginners or nervous intermediates, even with the escape roads. It also can get quite crowded where it narrows just above the steep final section.
Those fences at the bottom really spoil all the fun, but I can see why they've done it. So many people were timing themselves down it on phone apps, a bad crash was bound to happen sooner or later.
If they put in a fast chair which you could also use to get down, that would be fine, and maybe a longer magic carpet to get up to the main square.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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^ I meant with a bit of terraforming so that it wouldn't be an outright "it's a bla... er blue, honest guv!" lie (as with all the blue runs in Val d'Isere  ).
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| paulio wrote: |
| ...as with all the blue runs in Val d'Isere ). |
Not all the blue runs. Remember a run is only graded on its steepest point as bumps, slush / ice etc and how busy it is are subjective whereas steepness is constant. Anyway I do agree on the whole though that the runs are not very well graded in Val.
The idea of terraforming in the EK is VERY difficult to do since we are next to the NP and park of the government agreement is that earthmoving is severally limited (there are dozens of places it would make sense to do it otherwise e.g. top of Solaise and get rid of that rope tow). Again it is like the reason why they dont want to put grit down in Val as (part of the reason anyway) is that it alters the ph of the water that flows down into the wine growing regions further south and the Isere is such a major tributary.
Yes Piccadilly someone died on that runout a few years ago at the base of Trolles and after what happened on the the Solaise the other week etc etc etc the resort is trying to protect itself as much as possible.
That section on Trolles BEFORE the steep part is generally the worst as it narrows, is steep and funnels the traffic so moguls / ice are a constant problem... I know that if my students ski that bit well then the steepness is not an issue on the 'traditional' part of Trolles. Incidentally (like on the Face) those looping 'escape' roads (so to speak) are not supposed to be pistes (although people use them as pistes and as a resort they often end up pisting them) as they are partly there as access routes for the piste bashers. There are times when they HAVE to close them for avalanche risk from above therefore they cannot be counted upon as always being available if someone bottles it!
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I've not been to Tignes for 4 years and I used to enjoy straight lining the bottom bit of Trolles to see if you can avoid the walk; I always challenged myself to try it from that little bit higher up; but certainly not in the mogulled section!
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You know it makes sense.
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Not to forget that the bottom pitch of Trolles was emasculated in summer 99 when they dumped all the spoil from the underground carpark build. You can just about see the change in gradient level with the last breakaway track to the right (easier to see in summer).
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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When I was in Tignes last week I was told by an instructor who is resident there, that the narrow stretch above the final steep section will be widened this summer. So it would seem that any environmental objections have been overcome.
A covered chair could no doubt replace the gondola however I am not sure if it would be a good idea to increase the uplift capacity. The terminal point at the top when the Tommeuse lift is coming up fully loaded plus the other chair from Tignes already means that it can be absolutely chaotic there.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Would a chondola work, mixture of mostly chairs but with the odd gondola for the downloaders etc Or does that make it the worst of both worlds.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| richjp wrote: |
When I was in Tignes last week I was told by an instructor who is resident there, that the narrow stretch above the final steep section will be widened this summer. So it would seem that any environmental objections have been overcome.
A covered chair could no doubt replace the gondola however I am not sure if it would be a good idea to increase the uplift capacity. The terminal point at the top when the Tommeuse lift is coming up fully loaded plus the other chair from Tignes already means that it can be absolutely chaotic there. |
Good point. The top of Toviere is a nuthouse!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| FenlandSkier wrote: |
| Would a chondola work, mixture of mostly chairs but with the odd gondola for the downloaders etc Or does that make it the worst of both worlds. |
If you make downloading too much hassle, or fail to find a 'blue' route down to Le Lac, it will probably mean total carnage on Piste H - as if it wasn't busy enough already, and then mega queues for the bus!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| chocksaway wrote: |
| Not to forget that the bottom pitch of Trolles was emasculated in summer 99 when they dumped all the spoil from the underground carpark build. You can just about see the change in gradient level with the last breakaway track to the right (easier to see in summer). |
Here's a pic of the final pitch of Trolles which I took last week:
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Tue 3-04-12 12:58; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Piccadilly, there's an excellent chance my little boy is in that picture at the ski school
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Aww bless him! It was a lovely week. So hot!
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I believe the netting/chicane was put in place the day after a fatal accident. It didn't make the news but the piste was closed off to allow a helicopter to land right on the piste to attend to the injured party.It had already been put into place when the Solaise incident occured.
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Thanks to Snowheads for some great information and views on this thread.
On balance, IMO, each major mountain access point benefits from an enclosed lift that offers a bit of respite from extreme cold and allows easy downloading. Val D centre, La Daille, Val Claret, even Les Brevieres each have one such lift, at least. Le Lac should continue to have one. I take the point about high cost of a jumbo gondola vs chairlift. I guess it would still be much cheaper and easier than the impressive engineering projects of the 1990s, for the tunnel-based Funival in La Daille and Funicular in Val Claret. Anyway, given the number of visitors and high cost of lift pass, EK should be able to afford the best, if it wants to maintain its high reputation.
Another good point is vulnerability of gondolas to high-wind closure. Many places seem get around this by offering alternative chairlift/drag lift options to the same offloading point. Lower capacity, admittedly, but high winds in cold winters deter many from accessing the mountains anyway, so they're usually adequate as a back up.
About the Trolles high-speed schuss netting barriers. Like GeorgeVII, I heard this was sadly in response to a collision this season which caused the death of a snowboarder. I liked to schuss that bit but it is also an area the more cautious use. IMO worth a short walk at the end if it avoids further fatalities and serious injuries. A longer and faster magic carpet would save our tired little legs. Or maybe they could squeeze in one of those glove-shredding rope tows (as on the Solaise) for the last 50 metres?
Overall I think EK offers the best lift system in the Alps. I'd like to think it will continue to improve.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I think an 8 man chair like the Tommeuses would also be better than the current Aeroski and while they are at it if they can get rid of that schuss at the end of Trolles, even better IMO. I've often thought that there would be a nasty accident down there sometime because of the avoidance of people to walk up to the Aeroski (understandable), in combination with more cautious users of that bit of the slope.
I didn't know there had been an accident there recently but I'm not surprised.
If these plans to remove it go ahead does anyone know when it might be completed?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Those nettings gotta bring dangers of their own - temptation to maintain your speed and weave around netting I would think gives higher chance of collision. I didn't hear abouut accident there but that piste is so wide with such a long runoff and never mogulled I would have considered one of safest pistes anywhere to hit breakneck speed, but unfortunately accidents happen anywhere, I think French resorts need to griw balls and have patrollers accosting out-of-control / dangerous / drunk skiiers as happens in US
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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UNBELIEVABLE COINCIDENCE.......I was just revisiting this thread when i got a text from my son to say that the rescue helicopter has just set down at the bottom of Trolles!! No word on injuries though at this time. Hope all's well.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Tue 10-04-12 10:04; edited 1 time in total
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GeorgeVII, Let's hope it's not another fatality. Unfortunately the rescue helicopter would only land in a restricted area like that for something serious.
BTW I also found the netting near the funicular entrance at Val Claret didn't really do the job. People still hurtling through at breakneck speed. Makes it very difficult for anyone doing a left turn to the funicular entrance. It's about time a few reckless people had their lift passes confiscated, along with plenty of publicity about it.
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You know it makes sense.
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intermediate, Not been to Ischgl either then 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I just wanna know why people see these 'chicanes' and its like a red rag to a bull - that one near the funicular at VC is particularly scarey, I have
personal knowledge of it only 3 weeks ago.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Kiters wrote: |
I just wanna know why people see these 'chicanes' and its like a red rag to a bull - that one near the funicular at VC is particularly scarey, I have
personal knowledge of it only 3 weeks ago. |
Bottom of Double M?
Someone overtook me through that a couple of weeks ago at absolute breakneck speed, clipping me as he shot by, pausing momentarily to look back over his shoulder with a look that said 'get out of my fcking way'. My own fault I suppose. Shouldn't have slowed down for the sign that said 'slow down'. Silly me.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Frosty the Snowman, carbon_copy, I've only been skiing 25 years, so still working my way up to Amade and Ischgl. 
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