 Poster: A snowHead
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Hello,
I've been boarding for over 10 years now (I turned 40 last year) but I'm increasingly getting the urge to switch to skiing. Why? Well, our 5 year old is currently on his 4th week on skis and is absolutely loving it with our 3 year old expected to follow suit next season. I'm currently typing this in our chalet in Peisey nursing heavily bruised ribs (nasty fall 2 days ago). More importantly I feel that I won't be able to cope with the physical demands of snowboarding (up, down, bindings on, bindings off, scoot, flats etc) when I'm 50 and chasing after the kids and the wife (who's a very accomplished skier).
How would you go about it? Learn the basics over the course of summer / autumn at an indoor slope (live in Manchester so the Chill Factore is an option) or wait and do it properly next season? The key question here is how long should I expect the transition from a very good boarder to a very good skier take?
Thanks
PS - please don't try and change my mind!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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franga, I'm nearly 10 years ahead of you and barely noticing the alleged physical demands of snowboarding. Man up and lay off the pies. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Was shredding powder in the trees with a 50 year old today. Age is in your head!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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stevomcd, I was at uni with someone who was clearly 54 even though she was supposed to be 19. Tragic.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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franga, That's another one for a manbra, thong and 'tramp stamp'  Where did all these "I'm too old to be cool" prima ballerinas learn to board . . . or is that the real problem . . . they never actually learned to use a snowboard to its full capability. At least the thong will fit now his nuts have shrunk.
Boarding is no slower and far more manoeuvrable than skiing and if you can't reach your bindings without grunting then get rid of the lard that's in the way and take some boarding lessons . . . or use the money to buy a new handbag.
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| Masque wrote: |
| Boarding is far more manoeuvrable than skiing. |
Don't agree at all, especially in the context of having to be the guardian of a little kid. I've tried both. Skiing every time. Example - flat bit where you have to skate along. On skis - kid between legs, wide-legged skating whilst pushing them along. On a board - erm?
I am admittedly a better skier than boarder. Pretty decent at both though.
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| Masque wrote: |
Boarding is no slower and far more manoeuvrable than skiing . |
This objectively isn't true as soon as you put real world conditions like terrain etc into the equation. A board's more manoeuvrable in say trees or a tight chute due to length and ability to flip it round within it's own length but all over - no way. A comparatively skilled skier against boarder just isn't a fair race.
I'm with you on the age is no limitation but it's blinkered nonsense to ignore the real reason people give up or lessen the priority they give to boarding.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I agree with pam w on how to learn
...I do both now, snowboarder originally, learned to ski a few years back. Now adding some very bad telemarking to the list.
It's great being able to do both, I highly recommend it. I have to say I still ultimately prefer to board on a powder day, by a long way, but there are lots of situations where skis are great.
The transition...I think this really is impossible to say. There are *some* transferable elements to be sure, but I think it's quite a different set of skills and muscles - you may really like it and get on like a house on fire straight away, or it might take longer.
We learned in November 2009, when we were both around your age. I guess we skied 40-50 days that season, and completed the Haute Route in April. I wouldn't say I'm a good skier, but my other half learned much faster and better, and now skis all the time for preference.
As well as touring (I have a splitboard, but for some things prefer skis) it was in my mind that eventually I may not want to risk the bigger slams of snowboarding, and now's a good time to learn.
I think the adage that snowboarding is hard to learn but easy to master, and skiing is easy to learn but hard to master is true. There's a lot more to think about. But that's a nice challenge and will keep you from getting bored when the kids are younger. When they inevitably get loads better you'll just have to suck it up of course, but everyone has to deal with that 
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Thu 28-03-13 22:27; edited 1 time in total
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| Quote: |
It's great being able to do both, I highly recommend it. I have to say I still ultimately prefer to board on a powder day, by a long way, but there are lots of situations where skis are great.
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This has to be the best approach! One of my sons is a very good skier and a pretty good boarder (several seasons) and will choose his weapon according to conditions. On a powder day it's the board, but after weeks of high pressure, sunshine, possibly some days of foehn winds and hardpack, he'll ski.
If you spend a lot of time out in the mountains it's great to be able to choose what to do - some enthusiastic recent reports about cross-country skiing too. And a good walk on snowshoes is not to be sniffed at, either - it gives you time, at slow speed, to really take in your surroundings.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Thanks for all your replies, interesting debate of which I can see both sides - I think I'll bite the bullet and start ski lessons at the local fridge in Manchester later on in the year. Would be great if I could master skiing as well as I have done boarding.
Thanks again
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Yeah, you learn to ski switch on a bit of a crash course admittedly!
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You know it makes sense.
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franga, FWIW IMHO in balance etc etc you're right to do this, but everyone's entitled to their opinion and lots will disagree with you and me.
On your side is that boarders learn to ski pretty easily (and skiers learn to board pretty easily). However, while it's clearly easier and more painless to pick up the rudiments of skiing than the rudiments of boarding, it's a lifelong trial of blood, sweat, toil and tears to master it (while getting reasonably handy on a board is much easier).
If you want to get good at it, and you've got the money, I'd forget CFe and start with some private lessons from someone like New Gen Vallandry. It's very very easy to go native when you first learn to ski, ski horribly, get away with it (think you're skiing well, until you're chastened/mortified (delete according to size of ego) by seeing video of yourself skiing for the first time or even every time  ), spending ages ironing in bad movement patterns that you'll then need to spend even longer getting rid of if you're to progress to any sort of decent level (who me?). So unfortunately if you want to get "very good" (which I hesitate to have to tell you is improbable though not impossible with appropriate focus and funds) you'll need to have regular lessons, good listening skills and more than your share of humility for quite some time. Oh, and don't learn to telemark unless you're copping out of being judged or like looking like a clown. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I was originally a skier but only did 2 weeks when I was 17, I then switched to boarding and have done for the last 13 years. I'm in a similar situation to you, I have two boys who are 6 and 4. They now ski and its hard to help them when you're on a board. My wife skis and can hold a snowplough with our youngest, I can't help easily as my board just gets in the way.
This season I have now taken up skiing again. I was pretty much back to the beginning as it has been so long for me since I was last on skis. I had a couple of lessons and then went out with my wife, our boys and a couple of friends as I still wasn't good enough to be able to chase one if them down the hill when they inevitably fall in the back on theirs skis and disappear down the mountain!
I've got better now and can take our boys out and ski together, which is great. It's also nice to have the choice to ski or board, if we've had a foot dump overnight the board comes out, if its icy and moguled then it might be a day to ski
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
I think the adage that snowboarding is hard to learn but easy to master, and skiing is easy to learn but hard to master is true.
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Total pish.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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^^That.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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stevomcd, Lizzard,
It may have not worked out that way for you, but I have generally found, as slikedges says above:
"...while it's clearly easier and more painless to pick up the rudiments of skiing than the rudiments of boarding, it's a lifelong trial of blood, sweat, toil and tears to master it (while getting reasonably handy on a board is much easier). "
Maybe a bit more info than just mud-slinging? Always interested to hear other opinions.
edit - to say what I mean, a bit more carefully:
Learning to board from scratch involves, for most people, a few days at least of a lot of edge-catching, quite big slams, falling over and getting up again and again. It's often pretty tough going.
After a while (usually after a few days) you get the balance and can link turns. From then on, with more practice, you can get good enough to enjoy yourself around most places and do a bit of off-piste with no problems. It can be slow to get those initial basics of balance and turns, but you improve pretty rapidly once you've got them.
(This used to be a source of understandable grousing from skiers because it led to a lot of relatively inexperienced boarders going off piste without really understanding what they were doing, though these days I imaging fat skis mean this issue isn't just confined to boarders any more.)
With skiing, on the other hand, you can learn to get yourself around some greens and easy blues without too many problems and minimal falling over. You're unlikely to really hurt yourself in your first few days skiing, or to have any big falls, certainly compared to snowboarding. But the more you progress, the more there is to think about. There's a lot more technique to learn, and regular lessons are a really big help in improving.
These are things I'd regard as pretty self-evident, so I'm curious as to why you think they're "Total pish".
Back on the original topic, I would think the OP might never want to stop snowboarding completely but why not learn to ski now? You can continue to enjoy the mountains in all conditions when you're a fit, happy older person, skiing on a day of icy moguls and snowboarding when it's powder time.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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firebug, because they're primarily boarders, obviously . Of course, thing is they shouldn't feel anyone's dissing boarding. No one can help the nature of these different ways of sliding. As you say the difference is self-evident to anyone objective, impartial and dispassionate. One week on skis having not boarded before and you look like the clumsy young pup you are. One week on a board having never skied and the look is closer to energetic mongrel! A critical look at most plateaued intermediate boarders though will reveal that they are just as sloppy in technique as plateaued intermediate skiers, just you need a keener eye to see it in the boarder.
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" A critical look at most plateaued intermediate boarders though will reveal that they are just as sloppy in technique as plateaued intermediate skiers, just you need a keener eye to see it in the boarder."
Yeah I'd agree with that
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Both sides of the total pish debate are right. I learnt to ski as a kid back in the day of 2m long straight skis and rear entry boots. I was never that great (see ESF group lessons qv) but did benefit from a couple of formative SYHA weeks up at Cairngorm under the eye of wiley Scottish combat skiing instructors. Didn't ski for a while really around Uni etc then the odd hol then started snowboarding through dryslope lessons. It was shocking and it took real perserverance to get through the lessons but provided a real solid skills foundation in foot steering (thanks to an instructor who just wouldn't let us kick the board round). A couple of dabbles on Scottish hills later and by the time I was on my first week's trip I was able to drop into most terrain without worries as real snow unpunctuated by burns, heather and granite was a doddle.
So I'd characterise it a really steep learning curve compared to skiing BUT only if you have the right foundation skills, specifically foot steering. Too many boarders, because it's basically about balance hack together whatever ugly self taught technique they can and then use it to stink up progressively steeper terrain. Back leg kickers are no better than the sit up and beg frozen statue skiers careering down a slope near you all the time. Note I wouldn't pretend to be some snowboarding god, I'd probably be solid L2 standard at best if I got a lot of practice.
Does one sport inform the other - too right. You don't get arsey about uncertain edge feel of a wider ski on hardpack when you've been on a snowboard, you edge more aggresively on a snowboard when you can get your toes over that edge. Does this make skiing easier for a boarder? I'd say so because you're hardly going to be afraid of falling on your back bottom occasionally while learning and it's amazing how stable the extra edge immediately makes you, albeit at the expense of a less "natural" stance.
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Let me throw my hat in the ring.
We could ski and I suppose in real terms we could ski well. However about 3 years ago we decided that we wanted to learn to board. I am no Lance Armstrong(drugs aside) but I have done a fair amount of sport in my time and have done 2 x 3 hours marathons. However I will say that learning to snowboard has been one of the toughest and most physically grueling things I ( and the wife) have ever done. This year for the 1st time we really cracked it. We haven't spent all of every holiday learning or practicing so we have still skied a lot.
2 me there are 3 key differences between boarding and skiing.
When learning you need steep slopes to learn to board on and flat is the enemy, to get good on the flat you need to keep speed up which when learning is often terrifying. When learning to ski you start on the gentle slopes and work upwards and flat isn't really an issue.
Second and this IMO, you can be a crap skier and still go on holiday every year and have a ball on greens and blues. You cannot be a crap boarder, you have to 'get it' or give up.
That takes me to my 3rd point, falling on a board hurts far more than falling on skis. Face plants really hurt. We have got much better but I had 2 falls on my board 2 weeks ago which same me seeing stars.
Lastly while a lot of that sounds negative I will say that we have loved the fact that we can now board. I am so glad we persevered. We board at times, we ski others. We are fortunate that we have a place and have skis and boards there and can do what we want.
Learning to board has also made me more aware and tolerant of both disciplines. I don't scowl when a beginner boarder getting off a lift takes me out on my skis.
Back to the OP, if you have the time learn to ski, IMO is is an awful lot easier than learning to board.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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thefatcontroller,
Good post. Agree with your points of view.
Mitch
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Great debate and many thanks for everyone's contribution.
I can honestly see / appreciate both sides of the argument but I think that any boarder SHs with young kids picking skiing up for the first time are in all probability more likely to empathise with my dilemma ... young kids are very keen to follow mum and dad's tracks down any slope, unless a boarder dad can replicate the movement, change in direction etc of a skier that is a pretty challenging task. And when the kid has a fall (either behind or ahead) then the resulting situation takes a while to sort out ...
I absolutely love boarding but as a mountain and snow sports addict I respect both boarders and skiers in equal measure. I would never give boarding up and as a couple of posters have pointed out I would be absolutely chuffed if during future trips I had the luxury to mix boarding and ski days depending on conditions, family plans, my mood etc.
Thanks
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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thefatcontroller,
Great post by the way, thanks.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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franga,
Your kids will likely surpass your skiing ability in a very short time frame & would also probably prefer to ski with anyone but their parents ( unless there is no other choice) .
Thats been my experience anyway.
Mitch
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DB,
Love the vid
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You know it makes sense.
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Franga, I'm in the exact same (increasingly uncomfortable) boots - though I'm a pretty decent boarder I want to learn to ski (have done 3 days) as we have a couple of small kids, with the eldest starting on skis next week. So I have a week of lessons, and will report back on the process.
From getting my OH learning to board at MK/Hemel, and then learning to ski in a resort, and then again getting my sister in law into boarding at Hemel, I think the indoor slopes can be great for learning, but...
-if money is a factor you'd get much better value out in the Alps - lessons in the fridges are +/- £27 ph, so to get the equivalent of a week's worth of lessons 6*2.5*27=£405; for +/- the same amount of ski time in resort you'd pay about half that (examples: Oxygene in Val d'Isere = £185 for 15h; Zermatt Ski School = £217 for 18h over 4 days)
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Mitchell wrote: |
DB,
Love the vid |
+1
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Poster: A snowHead
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Snowboarding is the choice of vanity over practicality
That is all 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Sorry excluding the sarcy comment, my advice is do some lessons in the Autumn, will give your brain time to process the movements, generally takes a day or two to stop having to concentrate super hard, muscle memory and all that 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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thefatcontroller, really interesting to hear the view from the other side!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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firebug, I think you just agreed with me a couple of posts later?
Most snowboarders are horribly, horribly plateaued because they don't have enough technique to move-on. There is just as much technique to learn in snowboarding as in skiing. Being ignorant of this doesn't make it any less true.
My own experience was that I could get around the mountain comfortably (ie. ride blues fast and survive reds) after about 5 days skiing (age 29). Thinking back many, many years, it was probably about the same for snowboarding - I remember being pretty chuffed doing a red on my 3rd day, but couldn't actually turn properly one way (age 19). So learning time about the same for both sports. On the other hand, I don't think I've ever taken a heavy fall on skis. Plenty on my snowboard over the years!
Oh, and don't call it boarding. Don't make me post the legendary White Lines article again.
To the OP - learn to ski by all means. It's also an awesome way of zooming around the mountain. Just don't do it because you're "too old to snowboard".
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I don't agree it's total pish.
I do agree that it's not the entire story, particularly if you're talking about a much higher level than most people will ever need to enjoy their holiday.
I expect we don't entirely agree as your experience is different. Never mind!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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firebug, I think the "total pish" comment is firmly aimed at the idea that snowboarding is "easy to master". It ain't. Comparitively easy (once you've got the hang of the basics) to look fairlly competent on any piste and simple off-piste, maybe, but that is a long way from mastery. Something I realise every time I watch a Travis Rice vid.
For the record, I've done all of two days skiing so far, and some may say I already look competent on a red run (although I don't feel it).
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| Quote: |
I think the "total pish" comment is firmly aimed at the idea that snowboarding is "easy to master". It ain't.
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This.
firebug, the things you regard as "self-evident", I simply don't agree with. In fact, to me they seem like obvious nonsense.
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OK.
I think it's easy to master to the level that most people want or need. They can enjoy themselves, wherever, on any piste, do a bit of off piste, and it's fine. They have plenty of faults, but it doesn't really matter, because it's not really affecting their enjoyment. They are having fun.
I think skiing is different in this respect, it's harder to get to that level.
Of course it's not easy to become a complete master of the sport, and that isn't what I meant. There is always more to learn! So great, useful clarification.
For the rest, we just don't agree, and life is all the richer for it.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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firebug, Read what I wrote above, as someone who could ski and has learnt to board I will say (from real and recent experience) that boarding is much, much harder to learn, let alone master, that skiing. The reality, as I said, is you can be a crap skier and have a great holiday every year on greens and blues. You either have to get boarding or give up as failing at boarding just means you hurt a lot and walk a lot along flat sections.
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FAQ
