 Poster: A snowHead
|
I MUST change my deoderant whilst typing.....
There I go, contributing to the SCGB open forum and ....... it closes,
Then..... I make one posting on the Ski and Board forum and what happens;
1. The posting is removed {no mention that it's been removed} and...
2.''For a number of reasons, the skiandboard.co.uk Chat will be closed from the 20th March 2004.''
I'm starting to get a complex about this.....
Well for those of you who who want to read what the ski is trying to prevent you from reading - look at the thread entitled 'Valuable work of Reference' - published inthe Sunday Telegraph by Adam Ruck {who also contributes to Ski and Board}.
here's the link
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=684
[/url]
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
Very interesting. The pressure mounts on the SCKGB. One bad accident and they are doomed. Is there no-one there that understands the modern world.. things like liability....
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Well, if it doesn't say it was deleted, surely it could never have been there? What is, always was. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Hmm very dificult to prove arnold, though of course we know what certain people over there at the SCGB thought of some of your previous postings, so it shouldn't be any surprise 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
So when's snowHeads shutting down? 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| arnold lunn wrote: |
Well for those of you who who want to read what the ski is trying to prevent you from reading - look at the thread entitled 'Valuable work of Reference' - published inthe Sunday Telegraph by Adam Ruck {who also contributes to Ski and Board}.
|
Already read it on the Ski Club forum a couple of months back.
I thought it was David Goldsmith's fault they shut down the forum. At one point there were multiple Mr Goldsmiths arguing with each other... I assume this was because the forum let people register the same username twice and that we hadn't suddenly ended up in some kind of Matrix parallel universe.
Who is the Paul they mention in the article?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Elizabeth B wrote: |
| So when's snowHeads shutting down? |
The logical step would be for the SCGB to find some pretext to sue snowHeads!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
But as we have already had pointed out to us there's not much point when there's no money in the kitty to make it worthwhile, all we'd do is just open up a new site 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
exactly!
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
Anyway in order to sue they would first have to complain and then admin would have to do nothing, since we all now know to avoid the situation it's not going to happen 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
arnold lunn, they could've been worried about copyright infringement. But they should have said.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Sherman - the Paul seems to be a Val rep. 'fraid I have no idea who he is.
It's refreshing to see that the ministry of truth keeps an eye on us all. I am however checking under my car with a mirror on a stick to be on the safe side !
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
Arnold Lunn. You posted Adam Ruck's article first on www.skiclub.co.uk on 22 December 2003. The article was removed due to copyright reasons and a note from the moderator was left saying the following:
"arnold lunn 22 Dec 2003 05 Dec 1999 Sunday Telegraph Page 20 (RVU) Edition 1C (1285 words)
{Moderator's note: we have had to remove this article due to copyright laws} "
Arnold - you then posted the article on www.skiandboard.co.uk. We are sorry that the posting was removed without comment. We should have at least emailed you to tell you.
www.skiandboard.co.uk was designed to be an environment for youngsters to chat about freeriding, boarding, equipment, music, clubbing and clothing. It's not for people to discuss the Ski Club of Great Britain and its services, that is why the article was taken off.
Skiandboard.co.uk is still in its infancy and the Chat forum was yet to take off. It was to be controlled to a maximum of 15 discussions per forum - that is how we could keep the forum Open. However, the Club does not want to appear inconsistent so the skiandboard.co.uk Chat forum is to close this evening.
I know that many didn't agree with the closure of the Open Chat Forum on www.skiclub.co.uk but it is a great shame that this has led to the extreme and prolonged critisism of the Club. The Ski Club of Great Britain exists to PROMOTE THE SPORT THAT YOU LOVE! With the threat of global warming, snowsports may be in trouble in coming decades. We all need to work together!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
Laura, calm down, but seriously people she does have a valid point as to her reasons for removing the post so I suggest we all let it go at that
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Well, Laura, that is all that we wished for too! It has to work all ways.....and if the SC really wants to PROMOTE THE SPORT THAT WE ALL LOVE, then it has a strange way of showing it in all honesty. Not a personal pop BTW 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| laurazachary wrote: |
We all need to work together! |
Dead right. But how?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Mmmm. Whilst I think the SCGB are forever rooted in the past and can't imagining them catching up on the demands of the 21st century etc etc! I do think Laura has a point. As far as I am concerned SCGB is (forum wise) dead and a non starter. Maybe we should all move on and forget about them. It's getting like a bitter lovers battle through the divorce courts now.
Why on earth any of us here should care when the have clearly demonstrated their attitude towards our opinions is getting beyond me now. Let it go.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Philip Prior, you are, of course partly right. But those members of the SC that are also here, still feel that the SC need to be held to account for devalueing an organisation that holds itself up as being the voice of snowsports in this country.
I do appreciate that for non members, this may well be tedious. Apologies for that, but we do feel that the SC needs to understand the implications of what it decided to do.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
Mark Hunter, I rather suspect they do, of course they might not but my guess is that it has all proved to be a big embaressment for them, they now seem to be in the damage limitation exercise or possibly the if we ignore them maybe they'll go away mode so loved by our political masters
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
D G Orf, time to let it go for the time being? Or as Mr Goldsmith suggested, open up a private discussion forum and thus avoid p1ssing people off? I have to say that the other place is rapidly becoming a tumbleweed town in much the same way the original MO forum was.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mark Hunter, could be .....
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
I think it's time to forgive and forget in terms of past mistakes - and to constructively plan for the future. No person/organisation is perfect. We all screw up from time to time - especially when a group decision is taken. Let's turn what has happened into a positive step forward in terms of planning and development.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Someone suggested a 'club affairs' section within the Ski Club forum, which might be the best solution. I put the private discussion forum on ice because a pressure group might produce friction and strife. There's no reason for the discussion not to be on the SCGB site so that any member can pitch in and debate the issues. The problem that bugged me about operating an external private members site was that of registering and validating members' IDs and issuing passwords. The Club already does this on its own site, which is our venue in any case.
I'm posting threads on the SCGB site relating to Club affairs best discussed amongst members only, and anyone is welcome to join in. Trade membership is something that concerns me, so I'll probably do something on that in a few days.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
Thanks, David - you really are the border collie to the chaotic sheep that is us
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
That's odd, because my nickname at junior school was Hippo.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ahh one of those surprisingly dangerous creatures usually found hidden in mud holes, that explains a lot
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
You didn't have brothers by the names of Zippo and Chico by any chance?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
hippo ???
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
Laura;
Thanks for the post. I accept what you say, but can't help thinking that the law of copyright might have been less rigourly examined had the article been a ringing endorsement of the club and all its works.
This forum, and others like it seems to be filled with people who hope that ''The Ski Club of Great Britain exists to PROMOTE THE SPORT THAT YOU LOVE!'' but currently don't believe that the club's doing a great job. Hence comments about;
quality of the reps programme
selection of repped resorts
age breakdown of the club
demographics of the club's membership
grass roots involvement {or rather near complete lack of it}
regional breakdown of the club's membership
etc etc
This certainly isn't a personal criticism of you, rather of the direction that the club seems to have taken. To steal {and tweak} a line from Janet street Porter - 'M people, middle class and middle aged', with little relationship to the way in which the sport of skiing is actually practiced by the body of the british skiing public. I guess that we go in circles, but; does the club see it's future as a mass movement for British skiers as a whole or as an organisation which caters to a much narrower group of people ?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
I have read Adam Ruck's article with interest, especially as I skied with Paul at Val this year.
I have never been under the illusion that by skiing with a Ski Club rep I am no longer responsible for my own safety and that of other people on the same slope.
I have never hired a guide to take me climbing in the Alps and I do not think it is always necessary to hire a guide when skiing off piste, although I have enjoyed some great days with professional guides.
Both reps I have skied with this year have stated that I go with them at my own risk and I think this is important to protect the Club and the individual reps.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
So when you are skiing with a rep, John, who assesses the snow conditions, makes the decision whether to ski a particular slope etc.
The rep? Or the group as a whole?
And, if the latter, how much off-piste experience do you think a skier needs to participate in the decision-making in a meaningful way?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| John Roberts wrote: |
Both reps I have skied with this year have stated that I go with them at my own risk and I think this is important to protect the Club and the individual reps. |
Unfortunately what a rep states and what the law is are different things. The climate has changed and some countries (and relatives) are much more litigous than they were. I'm surprised the club is exposing itself to this risk. Although I personally think that reps are volunteers and generally do a good job some people see them as paid given the benefits they receive in exchange for their time. I hope the Ski Club has PLI covering off-piste guiding.
I agree with Arnold, the copyright thing is a red herring, although I don't think people should repost articles from other publications if they can avoid it, a link is preferable although I understand the article is no longer on-line anywhere. The Ski Club cut and paste copyright material to their news pages all the time and it doesn't seem to bother them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Sherman's right, as is David S - whether or not the club likes it the reps have primary responsibility for issues such as choice of terrain, route etc etc. Their very role places them in the role of expert. If a rep metaphorically asks a skier to ski off a cliff then the court is unlikely to have too much truck with a claim. However in a case where the risks might not be immediately obvious to a 'lay' skier then the skier is entitled to assume that the rep is making a sound decision.
The alternative is some sort of people's collective whereby the rep acts as a 'facilitor' {awful expression} to allow the group to come to a joint decision. If that s really what the club sees the reps role as then what on earth ar they paying to send them to the alps ?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Having skiied with reps before the only thing they usually ask during the day is if everyone is allright with the pace or maybe if anyone wants to stop and have a beer / lunch / coffee or whatever, there is usaully little if any discussion over the choice of a reps route, I have even been stared at by a rep for suggesting that the run they are proposing to do might not be a good idea given the ski conditions, that it wasn't a particularly good idea was admitted by the rep though at the bottom after it took 45 mins to do a 10 min run, heavy unpisted snow in a blizzard is not all that fun 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Over the years my enjoyment of skiing has been greatly enhanced by the reps - so much so, that my regular sking buddy and I almost almost choose a rep resort.
As a result I have gained a lot of off-piste experience which would not have been available to me if the option was always paying for guides. More than that, we have skied with an awful lot of great people - other club (and potential club) members.
I have never felt stupidly endangered by reps' route choices.
They are not mountain guides. But reps have arranged for parties of members to ski with guides where appropriate. As a result, I have skied off-piste on glacier, and - this season - was introduced to a day's ski-touring.
Perhaps I have been lucky (though I have skied with many reps now) but the rep system has been a major factor in my being a member of the club.
I do not know what the legal position is with regard to the reps. I guess thay have taken advice from someone who does. But the club has many years experience in running the system, and its track record seems good.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
DG - that's pretty much my understanding of the process too. Either the reps are 'leading' the group and at least making first line decisions, or they re not. If they re not then why on earth is the tea club sending them off to the alps and indeed to more exotic and costly locations.
I know we have discussed this in another place, but this is an area where the club {and the individual rep} could be very vulnerable. As someone who examines ski instructors and coaches for various awarding bodies I've a reasonable steer on the issues here. The concern {as already expressed} is that if the club waits until something goes badly wrong they will lose power and control over the situation - their insurers will ultimately tell them what the reps can do. By implementing control measures now the club's got a little more chance of keeping the programme running.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| arnold lunn wrote: |
| By implementing control measures now the club's got a little more chance of keeping the programme running. |
What do you reckon those control measures should be?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Good question !
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
