As expected the dreaded announcement this morning by the Federal Government
The Ski Season is now in Serious Doubt ...
Lockdown until 12/13 December (min)
The decision was made last night in a meeting at a hotel in Pertisau. For 20 days, the entire country will be locked down with the exception of supermarkets, pharmacies etc. Ski resorts, hotels and restaurants will also close. The measure applies until at least 13 December, but the lockdown for the unvaccinated will remain in place for the time being.
Important !!!
Just seven months after the second vaccination, the vaccination certificate - in Austria - is to lose its validity. Previously 9 Months
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Is it for everyone Stanton? ie is everything closed? I know it sounds stupid to ask, but my sister in law has just left travelling to Austria from Ireland, to Vienna, she will be there for five days, oh hell.
I was wondering when you would pop out of the crevasse, behind the curve as ever. I guess you will be leaving Austria before the beginning of February then? Or have you changed your mind about your anti social behaviour? Might be difficult to find a place to live that welcomes those who are careless with other people's health.
How are the German lessons coming along?
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
he is such an unpleasant individual, as welcome as herpes.
Have a look at this. Austria is performing far more tests per thousand than comparative European countries. The positive test rate, however, is lower than the UK and France. Of course when more tests are conducted, a larger amount of positive cases will be found. Gross positive case numbers is an obfuscatory metric.
The whole thing reeks of the manipulation of data to justify policy. Especially in light of the evidence that there is little to no effect on transmission twelve weeks after administration of the vaccine; the whole discourse of vaccinating low risk, healthy individuals in order to 'protect society' thus falls apart. Certainly, it could be beneficial to mandate vaccinating at risk persons to protect hospital capacity, because that is what the vaccine is good for: preventing hospitalisations and deaths, but not cases.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@JackSkier, The idea is to protect the health service, they can't look after the rest of society if they are busy looking after non vaccinated covid cases. 80% of cases in hospital in Austria are unvaccinated, the other 20% mainly have comorbidities that compromise their ability to fight the virus. It makes no difference how much testing we are doing when the hospitals are on the verge of turning people away.
Have a look at this. Austria is performing far more tests per thousand than comparative European countries. The positive test rate, however, is lower than the UK and France. Of course when more tests are conducted, a larger amount of positive cases will be found. Gross positive case numbers is an obfuscatory metric.
The whole thing reeks of the manipulation of data to justify policy. ...
My interpretation of those graphs is rather different. Yes, it shows Austria has been conducting more tests per thousand. But they have been doing that at a high level for the past year. For most of the year that high level of testing has shown a low number of cases, but in the past 2 weeks the number of new cases has shot up. It is a real outbreak.
And it is not just about pressure on hospitals and health services. Large numbers of even mild cases significantly increases the risk of a more malign variant emerging - which is the last thing Austria, or the rest of the planet, needs right now.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Chris_n, yebbut, nobutt, if your healthcare system is under pressure because of the unvaccinated ... there's a quick but drastic solution.
I appreciate it then runs into ethical debates and one has shades of questions over healthcare for questionable behaviours but they are much more complicated and nuanced than,
"I don't want it. Why? Because I like this idiot on youtube."
@ecureuil,
Quote:
cases ... increase the risk of a more malign variant emerging
That ship has sailed. The virus is endemic and is not going to be eradicated.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Have a look at this. Austria is performing far more tests per thousand than comparative European countries. The positive test rate, however, is lower than the UK and France. Of course when more tests are conducted, a larger amount of positive cases will be found. Gross positive case numbers is an obfuscatory metric.
The whole thing reeks of the manipulation of data to justify policy. ...
My interpretation of those graphs is rather different. Yes, it shows Austria has been conducting more tests per thousand. But they have been doing that at a high level for the past year. For most of the year that high level of testing has shown a low number of cases, but in the past 2 weeks the number of new cases has shot up. It is a real outbreak.
Correct, also the hospitalisations have rocketed. There is no denying that Austria is in trouble.
@under a new name, there is talk of what they call triage for overrun hospitals where they decide who they are going to treat. I guess the idea is to provide proper treatment rather than a watered down overrun type of care that probably leads to more bad outcomes and is not sustainable for staff. Not something that anyone wants to do and I don't know what the criteria would be but I would suspect compulsory vaccination is the lesser of 2 evils.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
To understand how grave the situation is, it does not matter whether Austria does more testing per capita.
You need to look at the graph that depicts how the incidences develop.
In the last 5-6 days, the situation has gotten completely out of control in Austria, and the NL and DE are only a few days behind on the curve.
In the NL we are now on the brink of "code black" where triage needs to be done, to dermine whether a patient with a life-threatening illness (cancer, heart attack covid) is going to be treated - or not (!!!). In the province of Limburg, all plannable hospital care is put on hold. Patients are transported to the other side of the country.
And society is getting hit hard. Polarisation is getting out of hand. In our parliament, a MP of the party of that right-wing nut MP Thierry Baudet, was called to the chairwoman because he threatened the life of his collegue IN PARLIAMENT.
There is a relatively small group of maybe 15%, who are taking hostage the rest of the country. The problem is, considerable part of them are not prepared to listen to reason. Really worrying, this problem is not going to get solved by itself.
The Lockdown comes in Two 10 day phases ... There will be a review at 10 day stage ,,, This does not mean it will be lifted ... I will NOT
It may well be that extension is announced until January.
Even if December 13th is a GO ... Austria has a secondary Problem ... That is how to ""Magic"" up Thousands of seasonal workers to come to Austria and be ready to start work on 14th ....
75% of seasonal workers come Eastern Europe & the Balkans who will not take a Vaccine ..
They are orthodox where Life means Life .. Death means Death with no medical intervention.....
Also allowing 100000''S of Tourists into the Country immediately after trying to reduce the numbers ...is NOT a GOOD IDEA.
Injured WinterSporters in Hopsitals is not what they need right now...
Many (1000's) of people are now cancelling February Holidays due to to new 7 month Covid Certificate Validation and complications with Kids.
It seems France maybe heading in the same direction ...
I live in Switzerland and i can say that the general residents are totally against (just like last year) a mass influx of Winter Tourists because the Hospital here are also struggling to cope right now,,, They are on are playing a juggling game....
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I wonder whether the situation in the UK is comparable, regarding polarisation.
Yesterday a big research into this group of prevention-saboteurs was published. Apparently they fall into 3 categories: (1) pragmatic postponer; (2) honorable doubter; (3) hardline government-suspicious conspiracy-theorists.
Only that first category could be convinced to behave responsibly by providing good information. The remainder 2 categories, about 10% of the population, have dug into their trenches and cannot be convinced.
cases ... increase the risk of a more malign variant emerging
That ship has sailed. The virus is endemic and is not going to be eradicated.
Agree 100%. But that doesn't mean a really bad variant can't emerge, and the more cases there are extant, the higher the chance of that happening.
Admittedly, most viruses tend to become milder over time - but that isn't always the case. Even if hospitals aren't being overrun, that doesn't mean everything is going to be okay.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
ecureuil wrote:
And it is not just about pressure on hospitals and health services. Large numbers of even mild cases significantly increases the risk of a more malign variant emerging - which is the last thing Austria, or the rest of the planet, needs right now.
Variants arise at random
However when they arise in the vax'd or partially vax'd there is an evolutionary selective pressure for variants that can outwit/withstand the vax to succeed. This pressure does not arise when the virus encounters an unvax'd person.
Therefore the greatest risk of a vax-evading variant to arise is not in the unvax'd but actually in the vax.'d especially where that vax is not particularly effective or is waning in its efficiency.
This is made far worse by us vaxing in the middle of a pandemic and having a non sterilizing "vax" which really is not a vax in that it is now accepted that the 'vax'd can harbour the virus and be infective so as to pass it on.
Furthermore as you say in the bit I quoted the vax'd when they encounter the virus are more likely to be experiencing only mild or even no symptoms so are far more likely to be out and about unaware they are infective and thus contributing to the spread of the virus.
Of course it suits those with an agenda to blame the unvax'd for the possibility of any vax evading variants occurring but this is not dissimilar to someone blaming the non-users of antibiotics for the spread of antibiotic resistance!
Its the same with lockdowns - you kill off the easy variants of the virus with our partial lockdowns but the effect is to give free reign to those stronger variants able to withstand the lockdowns. so the lockdowns become less effective each time.
this would not happen if the lockdowns were 100% (as practiced by the plague village Eyam in the 1600's)- which is totally impractical -we need essential services like water and food to stay alive so a huge number of keys workers need to work or the vax was 100% sterilizing - which it isn't.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Chris_n wrote:
@under a new name, there is talk of what they call triage for overrun hospitals where they decide who they are going to treat (1). I guess the idea is to provide proper treatment rather than a watered down overrun type of care that probably leads to more bad outcomes and is not sustainable for staff. Not something that anyone wants to do and I don't know what the criteria would be but I would suspect compulsory vaccination is the lesser of 2 evils. (2)
(1) - I can imagine that if one is over-run, one starts triaging aggressively and e.g. "most hopeless" cases put on supportive palliative care rather than 3 weeks ventilation then death. Not a good look, but ... I would certainly, if I had to make such decisions, be downgrading the wilfully unvaccinated.
(2) Agreed.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@under a new name, problem is it is not just Covid cases that get triaged.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
DK1NV wrote:
ecureuil wrote:
And it is not just about pressure on hospitals and health services. Large numbers of even mild cases significantly increases the risk of a more malign variant emerging - which is the last thing Austria, or the rest of the planet, needs right now.
Variants arise at random
However when they arise in the vax'd or partially vax'd there is an evolutionary selective pressure for variants that can outwit/withstand the vax to succeed. This pressure does not arise when the virus encounters an unvax'd person.
Therefore the greatest risk of a vax-evading variant to arise is not in the unvax'd but actually in the vax.'d especially where that vax is not particularly effective or is waning in its efficiency.
This is made far worse by us vaxing in the middle of a pandemic and having a non sterilizing "vax" which really is not a vax in that it is now accepted that the 'vax'd can harbour the virus and be infective so as to pass it on.
Furthermore as you say in the bit I quoted the vax'd when they encounter the virus are more likely to be experiencing only mild or even no symptoms so are far more likely to be out and about unaware they are infective and thus contributing to the spread of the virus.
Of course it suits those with an agenda to blame the unvax'd for the possibility of any vax evading variants occurring but this is not dissimilar to someone blaming the non-users of antibiotics for the spread of antibiotic resistance!
Its the same with lockdowns - you kill off the easy variants of the virus with our partial lockdowns but the effect is to give free reign to those stronger variants able to withstand the lockdowns. so the lockdowns become less effective each time.
this would not happen if the lockdowns were 100% (as practiced by the plague village Eyam in the 1600's)- which is totally impractical -we need essential services like water and food to stay alive so a huge number of keys workers need to work or the vax was 100% sterilizing - which it isn't.
Ah right... I see! And I've been listening to those 'scientists' and 'medics' and 'immunologists' all this time. What would they know? That's where I've been going wrong....
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@DK1NV, (apologies if this is one of your specialist subjects)
I think there is quite a bit of debate over vaccination driving resistance and it appears neither as clear cut nor as definite as you suggest, f'r instance
@under a new name, problem is it is not just Covid cases that get triaged.
That is, indeed, also a problem.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I assume the Austrian's will not be letting unvaccinated Swiss residents in after 01.02.2022 which might cause an issue for our resident Dutch troll.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@under a new name, you're wasting your breath. DK1NV's post falls under the definition of "tell me you don't understand statistics or immunology without telling me you don't understand statistics or immunology"
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@stanton,
Can you be so kind as to post a link for this important info you gave?
“Just seven months after the second vaccination, the vaccination certificate - in Austria - is to lose its validity. Previously 9 Months”
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Especially in light of the evidence that there is little to no effect on transmission twelve weeks after administration of the vaccine;.
That’s not correct. There is an effect on transmission. It’s not as great as it was with the original variant or even with Alpha, which is very disappointing, but there is a benefit to reducing transmission through vaccination.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
rob@rar wrote:
JackSkier wrote:
Especially in light of the evidence that there is little to no effect on transmission twelve weeks after administration of the vaccine;.
That’s not correct. There is an effect on transmission. It’s not as great as it was with the original variant or even with Alpha, which is very disappointing, but there is a benefit to reducing transmission through vaccination.
I quote: "Unfortunately, the vaccine’s beneficial effect on Delta transmission waned to almost negligible levels over time. In people infected 2 weeks after receiving the vaccine developed by the University of Oxford and AstraZeneca, both in the UK, the chance that an unvaccinated close contact would test positive was 57%, but 3 months later, that chance rose to 67%. The latter figure is on par with the likelihood that an unvaccinated person will spread the virus."
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Sat 20-11-21 22:13; edited 1 time in total
After all it is free
After all it is free
@JackSkier, there’s a selection of reports and papers in this Twitter thread which are relevant to the effect on transmission.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@rob@rar, thank you, I will have a read through.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
JackSkier wrote:
@rob@rar, thank you, I will have a read through.
You’re welcome. There are more references which I’ll try and dig out.
I can’t seem to load your link, but if it’s the paper that I remember reading my impression is that it is an outlier. There have been several studies which showed a benefit in terms of reducing transmission, albeit less than with previous variants.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
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